Will jurors just forget what they heard?

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The claims about what Martin said depend on whether you believe Zimmerman.

And the evidence that shows he's lying is where?

He has lots of holes, falsehoods and contradictions in his statements. Way too many for me to find him fully credible. That's without considering his perjury (I don't know if that has been introduced or can be).

Refer to the OP for police assessment of Zimmerman's statements and the veracity they were given.

There is no proof that Martin reached for the gun either and the defends has not introduced evidence of a struggle for the gun..

There is no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's claim that Martin reached for the gun.

Again, the burden is on the prosecution to prove Zimmerman's depraved state of mind was the primary cause of Martin's death and not a reasonable fear that Zimmerman's life was in danger.

Depraved state of mind vs. reasonable fear.
 
Of course it is the burden of the prosecution to prove Zimmerman's state of mind . . .

The 2nd Degree Murder statute demands it:



"The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084."

Florida Statutes



The state must show or demonstrate clearly that an UNLAWFUL killing resulted from the defendant's depraved mind regardless of human life but without any direct intent or premeditation (that would be 1st degree murder).

That is most certainly speaks directly to the defendant's "state of mind" and falling short of proving that "state of mind" resulted in UNLAWFUL death, the prosecution fails its burden and Zimmerman's affirmative defense demands a not guilty verdict (or more likely, a granting of a motion to dismiss after the prosecution rests) . . .
But as far as the Self Defense claim, the state has no burden. The burden is solely Zimmerman's. He must prove that he was REASONABLY in fear in death or great bodily harm.
 
In court the video of Zimmy a year ago with his lawyer sitting right next to him the interviewer asked him if he regretting getting out of the car to Follow Trayvon and he said no.

He admitted on TV that he stalked trayvon.

Now in court he says he didn't.
 
Zimmy does.


he feared for his life and felt the only way to preserve his life was to kill the kid he stalked in the dark with a loaded gun

Zimmerman's statement to the police is that the gun grab attempt and verbal threat of death was when he drew and shot Martin.

You have a right to not believe his account and justification but you don't have the right to invent a theory to bolster your prejudice of the case.
 
there is no lie in there.

Zimmerman has already proven he will tell differing tales about what happened.

You just chose to believe a liar
 
Zimmerman's statement to the police is that the gun grab attempt and verbal threat of death was when he drew and shot Martin.

You have a right to not believe his account and justification but you don't have the right to invent a theory to bolster your prejudice of the case.

I see you met "evince" aka "Desh". She's a total retard and brain-washed member of the Democrat Party. Nothing you say can influence her.
 
But as far as the Self Defense claim, the state has no burden. The burden is solely Zimmerman's. He must prove that he was REASONABLY in fear in death or great bodily harm.

Wrong.

There is no comparable, significant burden of proof on Zimmerman's claim of self defense.

Zimmerman's burden really just comes down to plausibility; whether his claims MIGHT be true . . .

Zimmerman has offered his account and that has been shown to the jury. The re-enactment / walk-though video is the most significant.

Since Zimmerman claims that he acted in self-defense the jury must consider that affirmative defense against the prosecution's evidence and witnesses.

The Fourth District Court of Appeal in Florida has said:



"[D]id [the defendant] also incur a burden of proof identical to the State's? That is, did he have to prove the additional facts for self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt? Or was he instead bound by some lesser standard-say, the greater weight of the evidence? Indeed, how about something even less onerous than that? Was he merely obligated to lay the additional facts before the jury, without any burden as to the strength of their probative value – other than they might be true? The answer is this. No, he did not have to prove self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. He did not have to prove even that his additional facts were more likely true than not. The real nature of his burden concerning his defense of justification is that his evidence of additional facts need merely leave the jury with a reasonable doubt about whether he was justified in using deadly force. Hence, if he wanted his self-defense to be considered, it was necessary to present evidence that his justification might be true. It would then be up to the jury to decide whether his evidence produced a reasonable doubt about his claim of self-defense."

Murray v. State, 937 So.2d 277, 279 (Fla. 4th Dist. 2006)​




In light of Murry (and Montijo v. State, 61 So.3d 424 (Fla. 5th Dist, 2011)*) standard jury instructions now include:



"If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether the defendant was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find the defendant not guilty. However, if from the evidence you are convinced that the defendant was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find [him] [her] guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proved."​



So, just not believing Zimmerman isn't enough; the state must still make its burden proving all the elements of the charges.



*In Montijo the trial judge had instructed the jury that the defendant had the burden of proving that he acted in self-defense "beyond a reasonable doubt." Montijo's attorney did not object to the jury instruction, but the appellate court found that the trial judge had committed a "fundamental error" by giving that instruction and ordered a new trial for the defendant. The Fifth District Court of Appeal stated, "The inclusion of the phrase "beyond a reasonable doubt" in the jury instruction placed the burden upon Montijo to prove self-defense, depriving him of a fair trial and rising to the level of fundamental error. Accordingly, we reverse."
 
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I see you met "evince" aka "Desh". She's a total retard and brain-washed member of the Democrat Party. Nothing you say can influence her.


yes you cant influence me because you don't use facts.

Facts can influence me.

Unlike you who have no love of facts
 
But I did. You speculated that Trayvon struggled for the gun.

No speculation; but instead a comment based on what has been presented.

By the way, you were the first one to bring up the struggle in your exchange with Socrtease.

Zimmerman did not claim that almost immediately, he felt Martin's actions were likely to cause death or great bodily harm. Zimmerman claims that he reached for his gun and shot after Martin made a move towards his gun. If you establish that Zimmerman's first and only defensive act was to grab his gun and shoot, it makes that claim seem very doubtful.

Martin was supposedly completely owning him to the degree that he was smothering him and Zimmerman could not even open his mouth or strike Martin once. Then Martin made a move towards the gun and Zimmerman was quick and effective enough to draw and shoot without Martin getting any dna on the gun? Seems like a rather improbable change of events to me.

Or did you forget that you were speculating that such an incident was "rather improbable"?
 
You talk in circles. See Soc more detailed post. The state cannot possibly prove what a defendant is thinking and the legal standards do not require them too.

But they do have to present evidence that would show that the defendant's statement is untrue; otherwise the defendant's statement stands.
Without them presenting such evidence; all they would have to do is say "We don't believe him, case closed".
Which is exactly what the majority of the left, on this site, have done.

For example:
Zimmerman has stated that he shot Martin, while Martin was sitting on top of him.
The autopsy will be able to show if the shot was at an upwards angle or not.
How were Martin's arms positioned; because our body parts and muscles change position, as we move
All of this information is more then likely going to substantiate Zimmerman's comments.
 
I think it's becoming fairly clear that the Prosecution has over reached with a 2nd Degree murder charge. Still, I would say that a manslaughter conviction for Mr. Zimmerman are a distinct possibility but, for that to happen, I think the prosecution will have to accept that they have over reached.
 
The claims about what Martin said depend on whether you believe Zimmerman. He has lots of holes, falsehoods and contradictions in his statements. Way too many for me to find him fully credible. That's without considering his perjury (I don't know if that has been introduced or can be).

There is no proof that Martin reached for the gun either and the defends has not introduced evidence of a struggle for the gun. His buddy contradicts his statements to the police on that point too, which makes his story less believable.

So you're speculating. :)
 
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