China

Socrtease said:
Only a country with a growing middle class will become a consumer nation. China's model is Statist capitalism with central party members becoming wealthy while the majority of nation remains a communist nation within it's borders.
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not quite, there is a growing middle and upper class in china's cities that will be its doom, either through trying to provide sufficient consumer goods or another revolution

especially with capitalistic ventures moving out of china to nations with even cheaper labor
 
China is also a huge beneficiary of child and slave labor. There are no good numbers because China will not allow international NGO's to monitor and they forbid domestic NGO's from looking into it as well. The only saving grace is the Chinese have only had ICBM's since 1986 and they are extremely inaccurate and so many of them will harmless fall to the ocean. We on the other hand will turn Beijing into a fond memory. Does it sound like I hate the Chinese government? Good! Because I do. They are the most repressive authoritarian regime in the world. We will not trade with Cuba because a small group of Cuban exiles are holding us hostage. I understand that Fidel and Che were murderous vile human beings. I wish that Kennedy hadn't lost his never during Bay of Pigs, we could have unseated Fidel. But the Chinese government makes Fidel look like muther fucking Santa Claus. Our politicians, both democrats and republicans have sold out the American people to benefit a few wealthy American's and the highest levels of the Chinese communist party. MFN status should have never been granted. When it was there were many people who warned of the eventual loss of American jobs to cheap and free slave Chinese labor. They were right. Sow the breeze, reap the whirlwind.
 
China Apologist said:
The Yuan has risen in comparison to the dollar over the past few years as China seeks to avoid the middle income trap by switching to a consumption based economy. The Communist leadership is able to set long term goals for policy, unlike the Americans who are like children without self control, only thinking of thing moment.
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I'd hardly call China a communist country. There was a story a month or so back about the government beginning to set tighter restrictions on corporations - in effort to better conditions for workers, which have been notably as poor as in any other nation. In a communist country, or a Marxian pre-communist country, these things wouldn't be an issue.

Plus, I challenge that "communist leadership" is even a good idea.

As in all countries, the tariff laws are complex and depend on the good, you cannot simplify things to a flat 25% tariff for all goods, that's idiotic nonsense.
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The tariff shouldn't be uniform, that's for sure, but it should be there. China's role in the Solyndra cock-up is a prime example of why.

China does not depend on America. America is a fading power. The only thing forcing American businesses, against their will, out of the Chinese market would do is hasten Americas decline. You really want to force our businesses to abandon one of the few growth markets left in the world? How pathetic. As for you're comment about rice, you're a fucking racist, the Chinese can succeed, they don't need America and other colonialist masters.
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Look, I'm as opposed to American imperialism as anyone, but this is just stupid. Sure, the Chinese government has been running a surplus for years - which is partly to blame for the conditions of their workers and peasants - but the US' success is vital to them, just based on how much money they've poured into it.
 
Socrtease said:
China is also a huge beneficiary of child and slave labor. There are no good numbers because China will not allow international NGO's to monitor and they forbid domestic NGO's from looking into it as well. The only saving grace is the Chinese have only had ICBM's since 1986 and they are extremely inaccurate and so many of them will harmless fall to the ocean. We on the other hand will turn Beijing into a fond memory. Does it sound like I hate the Chinese government? Good! Because I do. They are the most repressive authoritarian regime in the world. We will not trade with Cuba because a small group of Cuban exiles are holding us hostage. I understand that Fidel and Che were murderous vile human beings. I wish that Kennedy hadn't lost his never during Bay of Pigs, we could have unseated Fidel. But the Chinese government makes Fidel look like muther fucking Santa Claus. Our politicians, both democrats and republicans have sold out the American people to benefit a few wealthy American's and the highest levels of the Chinese communist party. MFN status should have never been granted. When it was there were many people who warned of the eventual loss of American jobs to cheap and free slave Chinese labor. They were right. Sow the breeze, reap the whirlwind.
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Che and Fidel? You mean the folks who fought against Batista? A man who stripped Cubans of constitutional rights, butchered, tortured, and jailed political opponents, and whom we funded/armed throughout the whole ordeal?

Fidel Castro was a great leader who improved the conditions of Cuban workers and poor. He was a great man, a Cuban hero, and a propagator of Latin American liberation. And comparing his policies to those of your government, you have no right to call him vile.
 
blackascoal said:
Perhaps you have me confused with the Oracle of All Knowledge. I'm not her.

Are you suggesting that you know everything? I don't.

I know of the CIA's involvement because I read about the agency essentially taking over the Tibetan resistance movement.

I've always been against China's assimilation policy .. but I don't know enough about the ethnic makeup to suggest what China or Tibet should do .. but I do know that setting yourself on fire ain't the answer.

What I believe is that after the death of the Dalai Lama, agreements will be reached and some resolution will be found..
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If you had included some of this, in your first reply; it would probably have eliminated the last exchange we had.
 
Rose Captain said:
Che and Fidel? You mean the folks who fought against Batista? A man who stripped Cubans of constitutional rights, butchered, tortured, and jailed political opponents, and whom we funded/armed throughout the whole ordeal?

Fidel Castro was a great leader who improved the conditions of Cuban workers and poor. He was a great man, a Cuban hero, and a propagator of Latin American liberation. And comparing his policies to those of your government, you have no right to call him vile.
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Che and Fidel were anything but liberators. They executed hundreds of Cubans whose only crimes were working for the Cuban government while Batista was in charge. No charges, no trial, just summary executions. Fidel promised to reinstate democracy under the terms of the 1940 constitution. He did not. Not only that, but he openly rejected it. The 1940 Constitution did not allow for execution They censored artistic expression including rock music.

The official newspaper Revolución, reported that in a speech of May 18, 1962 at State Security offices in Havana, Ché Guevara stated: "It is logical that in times of excessive tension we cannot proceed with weakness. We have imprisoned many people without knowing for sure if they were guilty. At the Sierra Maestra, we executed many people by firing squad without knowing if they were fully guilty. At times, the Revolution cannot stop to conduct much investigation; it has the obligation to triumph. Those of you who worship Che and Fidel should first read your history before pretending these guys were the Washington and Jefferson of Cuba.
 
My last statement is in no way meant to be read as an endorsement of Batista. That son of a bitch needed to die. He was a right wing murderer on par with Samosa and Pinochet.
 
Socrtease said:
Che and Fidel were anything but liberators. They executed hundreds of Cubans whose only crimes were working for the Cuban government while Batista was in charge. No charges, no trial, just summary executions. Fidel promised to reinstate democracy under the terms of the 1940 constitution. He did not. Not only that, but he openly rejected it. The 1940 Constitution did not allow for execution They censored artistic expression including rock music.

The official newspaper Revolución, reported that in a speech of May 18, 1962 at State Security offices in Havana, Ché Guevara stated: "It is logical that in times of excessive tension we cannot proceed with weakness. We have imprisoned many people without knowing for sure if they were guilty. At the Sierra Maestra, we executed many people by firing squad without knowing if they were fully guilty. At times, the Revolution cannot stop to conduct much investigation; it has the obligation to triumph. Those of you who worship Che and Fidel should first read your history before pretending these guys were the Washington and Jefferson of Cuba.
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Well, I'd like to firstly establish that I don't worship them, but do view them as leaders far above the standard of nearly every US president.

When I say Castro was a great man, I mean it. He nationalized US property and began employing citizens under the direction of a largely - not entirely - democratic government devoted to the country's economic development. He gave land back to the farmers. He directed the government to engage in the building of schools in underprivileged areas; passing education reform, he greatly improved literacy and opportunities for students. He provided the Cuban people with food, housing, education, medicine. Basically, universal programs which resulted in a blossoming of artists, athletes, and intellectuals within the country. He established elections, gave the country independence, and allowed the poor opportunity and pride. He aided foreign revolutions, greatly contributing to Latin America's liberation.

He was nowhere near perfect, however. Government controlled press, executions of political opponents - many of the more recent accusations can be discarded as rubbish, however, due to the US' relations with LA - , and a dictatorship. There's a lot to complain about. But he was by no means vile. When you talk about Castro, we both make a mistake in using absolutes. I regard him as a positive force, weighing the factors - you may not. But please remember that revolutions are not rational, they do not follow any system of conventional morality. They have a nature all their own.
 
Rose Captain said:
Well, I'd like to firstly establish that I don't worship them, but do view them as leaders far above the standard of nearly every US president.

When I say Castro was a great man, I mean it. He nationalized US property and began employing citizens under the direction of a largely - not entirely - democratic government devoted to the country's economic development. He gave land back to the farmers. He directed the government to engage in the building of schools in underprivileged areas; passing education reform, he greatly improved literacy and opportunities for students. He provided the Cuban people with food, housing, education, medicine. Basically, universal programs which resulted in a blossoming of artists, athletes, and intellectuals within the country. He established elections, gave the country independence, and allowed the poor opportunity and pride. He aided foreign revolutions, greatly contributing to Latin America's liberation.

He was nowhere near perfect, however. Government controlled press, executions of political opponents - many of the more recent accusations can be discarded as rubbish, however, due to the US' relations with LA - , and a dictatorship. There's a lot to complain about. But he was by no means vile. When you talk about Castro, we both make a mistake in using absolutes. I regard him as a positive force, weighing the factors - you may not. But please remember that revolutions are not rational, they do not follow any system of conventional morality. They have a nature all their own.
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This must be why so many are willing to risk death and imprisonment, by trying to reach US soil.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
This must be why so many are willing to risk death and imprisonment, by trying to reach US soil.
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I was going to say, if Fidel has made life in Cuba so much better, why do people risk death to float 90 miles on the hood of a car to leave? Even to the point they will endanger the lives of very young children.
 
Socrtease said:
I was going to say, if Fidel has made life in Cuba so much better, why do people risk death to float 90 miles on the hood of a car to leave? Even to the point they will endanger the lives of very young children.
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Which is exactly what way to many people seem to CHOOSE to ignore.
I guess when you can tell people what they're going to be, it's easy to have a multitude of doctors.
 
With turbo libs its amount done for the poor that counts!
Please don't mention the average family being way worse off.
Thanks
 
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