Looking more and more likely that doubling CO2 means less than 2°C increase

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Yes, it warms the planet - just not as much as thought
By Andrew OrlowskiGet more from this author
Posted in Science, 22nd April 2013 06:03 GMT

The results of a new approach to calculating the effect of CO[SUB]2[/SUB] - using empirical observations - suggest it has a lower impact on the climate than previously thought, and its effects are being over-estimated by the IPCC. Publishing in the American Meterological Society's Journal of Climate, a new paper called An improved, objective Bayesian, approach for applying optimal fingerprint techniques to estimate climate sensitivity, Nicholas Lewis applies objective Bayesian techniques and uses more up-to-date observational data to derive his conclusions.

Estimates of ECS (Equilibirum Climate Sensitivity, defined by the IPCC here) produce a range of temperatures that we can expect from a doubling of atmospheric CO[SUB]2[/SUB] concentrations over pre-industrial levels. They're derived in three ways: from complex climate models (GCMs) which largely ignore observational evidence, simpler models constrained by observations, and direct observation.

The Lewis paper takes the second approach. Aerosols, both natural and manmade, have a potential negative feedback, with volcanic eruptions proving to have a dramatic short-term effect. Lewis uses more up-to-date estimates of aerosol forcing (from volcanos, for example) drawn from the observational data, rather than other papers, and compares global temperatures over short decadal periods, to remove the effect of volcanic eruptions. He also uses a technique called objective Bayesian analysis. Conventional subjective Bayesian analysis relies on highly subjective uniform priors, aka deliberatively-informative "expert" priors, as parameters.

The results don't diverge completely from the IPCC estimates, but they are significantly lower. Lewis finds mode and median climate sensitivity of 1.6°C, with 90 per cent confidence in a range of 1.2°C to 2.2°C. This compares to the IPCC's 2°C-4.5°C 'likely range'. Lewis also has a crack at updating the Forest 06 study
 
Ill be waiting with baited breathe.



I have no problem with waste reduction or an enviornmental outlook, I just don't think anything we can do short of an extinction-level event will affect the planet much.

Ice Age is still due within a few thousand years.
 
Ill be waiting with baited breathe.



I have no problem with waste reduction or an enviornmental outlook, I just don't think anything we can do short of an extinction-level event will affect the planet much.

Ice Age is still due within a few thousand years.

It is becoming clearer and clearer that the threat from CO2 has been vastly over rated especially with respect to positive feedback mechanisms. One thing though, the warmers have gone very quiet of late.
 
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Nobody seriously doubts that CO2 has some effect, it is the attempt to exaggerate and overplay its role that is the contentious issue.

Bullshit. Many are still arguing that the earth is not warming at all and others still argue that co2 and man are not the cause.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/02/01/fox-news-top-10-lies-about-climate-science/175811

Further, this study supports the fact that Co2 IS the major factor. It simply says that sensitivity is lower than some have hypothesized.

If you are only interested in getting the sensitivity right then you are a "warmer" not a "denialist."
 
Bullshit. Many are still arguing that the earth is not warming at all and others still argue that co2 and man are not the cause.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2011/02/01/fox-news-top-10-lies-about-climate-science/175811

Further, this study supports the fact that Co2 IS the major factor. It simply says that sensitivity is lower than some have hypothesized.

If you are only interested in getting the sensitivity right then you are a "warmer" not a "denialist."

I am a sceptic and always have been, that does not mean that CO2 forcing as a climate mechanism doesn't happen. I am presenting you with a peer reviewed paper and you are going to Fox news for your info. :palm:
 
No, I'm quite sure the AMS understands that it's one study using one method of investigation. It's you and yours that seem to have trouble understanding that.

If it were the onlty one, you may have a point however it isn't and you haven't.

Lewis' is the latest of a clutch of recent papers, all pointing to a lower CO[SUB]2[/SUB] sensitivity range than assumed by activists and alarmists - which were used to influence climate policies which favour immediate reductions in carbon dioxide over less costly longer-term measures.
 
I am a sceptic and always have been, that does not mean that CO2 forcing as a climate mechanism doesn't happen. I am presenting you with a peer reviewed paper and you are going to Fox news for your info. :palm:

In regards to what the contentious issues are Fox is representative. What is your source for the "warmers" that have exaggerated co2? Al Gore?

There are no contentious issues within the scientific community.
 
If it were the onlty one, you may have a point however it isn't and you haven't.


That's just more confirmation bias in action, Aox. Let's pick and choose which peer reviewed papers we like and then pretend the rest of the research in the field is incorrect based on the few papers and method we like.
 
That's just more confirmation bias in action, Aox. Let's pick and choose which peer reviewed papers we like and then pretend the rest of the research in the field is incorrect based on the few papers and method we like.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing? These are all recent studies which have access to newer data and more sophisticated methods of analysis. It is the scientific method in action. The charge used to be that there weren't any peer reviewed papers from respected scientific bodies and the sceptics were just making shit up and taking backhanders from the likes of Exxon. There is now a veritable flood of such papers, so now the new charge is one of being selective.
 
Isn't that exactly what you are doing? These are all recent studies which have access to newer data and more sophisticated methods of analysis. It is the scientific method in action. The charge used to be that there weren't any peer reviewed papers from respected scientific bodies and the sceptics were just making shit up and taking backhanders from the likes Exxon. There is now a veritable flood of such papers, so now the new charge is one of being selective.


"Veritable flood?" LOL.

Anyway, the difference between the "skeptics" and normal people is that the normal people incorporate new research into their understanding of the world and do additional research to better understand it while the "skeptics" say that these papers here are the truth and the light that disprove all that other stuff.
 
"Veritable flood?" LOL.

Anyway, the difference between the "skeptics" and normal people is that the normal people incorporate new research into their understanding of the world and do additional research to better understand it while the "skeptics" say that these papers here are the truth and the light that disprove all that other stuff.

The mechanism you describe is exactly what has been happening with warmers for over two decades, it is also precisely what you are adhering to here. How many times have I heard that 97% of climate scientists support AGW. Again for those in the cheap seats, mostly all scientists accept AGW. What many do not accept though is the extreme extrapolation and manipulation of data and the positive feedback mechanism that the likes of James Hansen are advocating.
 
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It is becoming clearer and clearer that the threat from CO2 has been vastly over rated especially with respect to positive feedback mechanisms. At one thing though, the warmers have gone very quiet of late.

Which oil company do you work for again?
 
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