two US teens show how NOT to be sociopaths

[Cancel 2016.2]

They didn't use to be a problem until the Private Sector decided that paying employees good wages was so passe, and decided that...."hey, we could make a killing if we just had slave labor....you know there are many countries that are so dirt poot that we could get them to make our shit for pennies on the dollar!"

1) It is quite pathetic to equate it to slave labor... read up on slavery some time
2) Those pennies on the dollar seem like a little to you because you look down upon the third world countries. But those countries also have a much lower cost of living than we do in the US. Those jobs have helped build up the middle classes in many of those countries. China, India, etc... have seen economic growth due to these jobs.

But now, since the vast majority of our population relied on those jobs, and they were replaced by shitty ones....now all of a sudden it's the Public Sector worker that's the enemy.

Pure nonsense. Public sector pensions are bad because the idiot politicians make promises they cannot deliver upon. They make moronic assumptions about what the pension funds will earn over the long term and then make promises based on those projections. It gets them re-elected, but in the end the pensions are not sustainable.

Like it's our fault that big business fucked the country....well, us...the poor and the elderly, that is.

Funny, because many in the private sector would say it is the government and public unions that have fucked us over.

Yes, public sector pensions will and should change. But don't fuck over the people who have dedicated their lives to public service and are nearing retirement. Start with new and low seniority employees that have the time to make the adjustment.

That is predominantly what they are doing. That said, some that over promised are going to end up under delivering.

 

[Steelplate]

1) It is quite pathetic to equate it to slave labor... read up on slavery some time
2) Those pennies on the dollar seem like a little to you because you look down upon the third world countries. But those countries also have a much lower cost of living than we do in the US. Those jobs have helped build up the middle classes in many of those countries. China, India, etc... have seen economic growth due to these jobs.




Pure nonsense. Public sector pensions are bad because the idiot politicians make promises they cannot deliver upon. They make moronic assumptions about what the pension funds will earn over the long term and then make promises based on those projections. It gets them re-elected, but in the end the pensions are not sustainable.



Funny, because many in the private sector would say it is the government and public unions that have fucked us over.



That is predominantly what they are doing. That said, some that over promised are going to end up under delivering.

OK...sweatshop labor. It doesn't matter. If your goal for this country is to have it spiral downhill in exchange for cheap consumer goods and shitty jobs.. well, it's working.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

OK...sweatshop labor. It doesn't matter. If your goal for this country is to have it spiral downhill in exchange for cheap consumer goods and shitty jobs.. well, it's working.

1) Sweatshop labor is also a severe stretch. Read up on the cost of living in those third world countries. Read what these jobs do to help build their economy (which is beneficial to all of us)

2) Those cheap consumer goods allow more people to enjoy them rather than just those with wealth.

3) While I understand some people may have been expecting the life of their parents where they worked for one company doing manual labor for thirty years and retired with a pension, the fact remains is that those days are gone. Not because corporations are evil. But rather because the corporations realized that the pensions were unsustainable and unpredictable. It does nobody any good if the corporations go out of business. Their job is to make a product that the rest of us can afford to buy. How many people would be able to have an ipad, HDTV, cell phone etc... if they were manufactured in the US?

This country has not gone in a downward spiral. Not in the least. Things may have stagnated in terms of wages, but that is in large part due to many benefits being paid for today that weren't paid for in the 1950's-60's by companies. That said, I would be interested to learn what it is that you are seeing that makes you think things are worse.

 

[Steelplate]

1) Sweatshop labor is also a severe stretch. Read up on the cost of living in those third world countries. Read what these jobs do to help build their economy (which is beneficial to all of us)

2) Those cheap consumer goods allow more people to enjoy them rather than just those with wealth.

3) While I understand some people may have been expecting the life of their parents where they worked for one company doing manual labor for thirty years and retired with a pension, the fact remains is that those days are gone. Not because corporations are evil. But rather because the corporations realized that the pensions were unsustainable and unpredictable. It does nobody any good if the corporations go out of business. Their job is to make a product that the rest of us can afford to buy. How many people would be able to have an ipad, HDTV, cell phone etc... if they were manufactured in the US?

This country has not gone in a downward spiral. Not in the least. Things may have stagnated in terms of wages, but that is in large part due to many benefits being paid for today that weren't paid for in the 1950's-60's by companies. That said, I would be interested to learn what it is that you are seeing that makes you think things are worse.

How about 47% of the people in this country needing the government to subsidize at least part of their basic needs? Just for starters.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

How about 47% of the people in this country needing the government to subsidize at least part of their basic needs? Just for starters.

Saying 'part' of their needs is a tad vague. Basic needs is also subjective.

Are you including those on medicare/SS?

Could you go into a bit more detail so that we can discuss?

Obviously food stamps have risen in use in the past four years, as has unemployment bene's... a large part of the stagnant economy and continued high unemployment. Are you just referring to the recent period? Or were you speaking more in general of the time since unions were a larger part of the private sector?

 

[Steelplate]

Saying 'part' of their needs is a tad vague. Basic needs is also subjective.

Are you including those on medicare/SS?

Could you go into a bit more detail so that we can discuss?

Obviously food stamps have risen in use in the past four years, as has unemployment bene's... a large part of the stagnant economy and continued high unemployment. Are you just referring to the recent period? Or were you speaking more in general of the time since unions were a larger part of the private sector?

I was referring to food stamps, subsidized housing, medicaid...etc. High unemployment doesn't quantify half the country needing some or all of these programs...the unemployment rate is around 8%, if you include people who have given up, PERHAPS double it.

It's UNDERemployment that's the real problem. Sure, people can find jobs....just not sustainable ones. Those jobs went away. And the few that are there, folks don't qualify for because they did work blue collar jobs.

 

[Howey]

SF: I like to think our country isn't comparable to third world countries. I prefer seeing it as a First Tier nation and worldwide leader.

If you want the pay, lifestyle and government of a third world country, may I suggest you find one to move to?

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I was referring to food stamps, subsidized housing, medicaid...etc. High unemployment doesn't quantify half the country needing some or all of these programs...the unemployment rate is around 8%, if you include people who have given up, PERHAPS double it.

It's UNDERemployment that's the real problem. Sure, people can find jobs....just not sustainable ones. Those jobs went away. And the few that are there, folks don't qualify for because they did work blue collar jobs.

Ok, so you are talking about the decline in the past four years. Thanks... now we are on the same page.

Food stamps have increased in large part because they increased the amount of people that could qualify for them. So you are not really comparing apples to apples. Do you have a link to the data on your 47%? On the percent of population on medicaid now vs. 1990 or 2000 or 1960? Same for subsidized housing?

I agree that underemployment is also a big part of the problem. That will persist as long as the government continues playing the game of kick the can down the road.

Even if the idiots in DC come up with the most god awful long term plan that anyone could possible think of. Even if they implement such a plan... at least the rest of us would know what the plan entails and thus be able to plan around it. Until that time, corporations will remain sitting on cash. They will not escalate hiring. They will wait until they know what it is the idiots in DC are going to do.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

SF: I like to think our country isn't comparable to third world countries. I prefer seeing it as a First Tier nation and worldwide leader.

If you want the pay, lifestyle and government of a third world country, may I suggest you find one to move to?

That is not what I want, I was commenting on his posts. He is the one that mentioned that the jobs were shipped to third world countries for 'slave wages'. I was pointing out that those wages were NOT considered 'slave wages' in third world countries as those wages were actually considered middle income there due to cost of living differences.

Is that ok?

 

[PostmodernProphet]

Maybe you should be questioning why private sector pensions went away rather than trying to take shit away from others.

???....I don't need to ask....I've lived through the economy we're experiencing....

 

[Steelplate]

???....I don't need to ask....I've lived through the economy we're experiencing....

So explain it to me through your experienced eyes.

 

[Steelplate]

That is not what I want, I was commenting on his posts. He is the one that mentioned that the jobs were shipped to third world countries for 'slave wages'. I was pointing out that those wages were NOT considered 'slave wages' in third world countries as those wages were actually considered middle income there due to cost of living differences.

Is that ok?

Hey...it may not be slave wages to THEM....But it's certainly nothing that no worker in THIS country can afford to compete with.

BTW, just about every country in the world EMBRACES some sort of SOCIAL measures...be it health care, education, housing, whatever.... we don't. We expect to compete with the rest of the world AND expect everyone to pay their own bill for everything.

That's a stacked deck and a losing proposition if I ever seen one.

 

[Don Quixote]

have you seen the current benefits that public sector employees get? if they can't work their own finances to set up retirement, they need to be institutionalized for stupidity.

the politicians kept kicking the can down the retirement road without bothering to add up the cost.

they loaded the retirement benefits instead of paying a decent wage and then 'magically' discovered that they cannot deliver what the promised and decide to go bankrupt instead of paying what they promised

this seems to be what has happened throughout our retirement system, including ss and medicare

the politicians have ignored the actuarial tables that the insurance companies have compiled and as usual, they have made promises that they cannot fulfill in order to get reelected and pass on the problems to whomsoever gets elected after them...their answer is to cut benefits that they promised

 

[Steelplate]

the politicians kept kicking the can down the retirement road without bothering to add up the cost.

they loaded the retirement benefits instead of paying a decent wage and then 'magically' discovered that they cannot deliver what the promised and decide to go bankrupt instead of paying what they promised

this seems to be what has happened throughout our retirement system, including ss and medicare

the politicians have ignored the actuarial tables that the insurance companies have compiled and as usual, they have made promises that they cannot fulfill in order to get reelected and pass on the problems to whomsoever gets elected after them...their answer is to cut benefits that they promised

They didn't necessarily ignore anything....the situation changed so rapidly with outsourcing, downsizing and the crash if '08 that revenues dropped dramatically. Think about it....before the crash, it was never an issue worth mentioning.

But we can't hold corporate America accountable for anything, can we?

 

[Don Quixote]

That is not what I want, I was commenting on his posts. He is the one that mentioned that the jobs were shipped to third world countries for 'slave wages'. I was pointing out that those wages were NOT considered 'slave wages' in third world countries as those wages were actually considered middle income there due to cost of living differences.

Is that ok?

not really, the current repugs and dims have just 'discovered' how deep the hole is that their predecessors have dug for them and they are sweating bullets looking for a way out...

 

[Don Quixote]

They didn't necessarily ignore anything....the situation changed so rapidly with outsourcing, downsizing and the crash if '08 that revenues dropped dramatically. Think about it....before the crash, it was never an issue worth mentioning.

But we can't hold corporate America accountable for anything, can we?

even without the engineered economic down turn we were screwed, we are just screwed sooner and worse than expected, but the fearless leaders have their golden parachutes

 

[PostmodernProphet]

So explain it to me through your experienced eyes.

??...did you even notice the double digit unemployment we had?.....I suppose as a public employee it didn't matter to you...here in Michigan it effected as many as 14% of us for a long time....and a whole lot of people lost their homes, thus eliminating a whole lot of people paying property taxes, which pays for teachers and teacher's pension funds.....

then we had situations like they faced in Inkster, Michigan where over a three year period they lost nearly 50% of the students in the school system, when parents moved their families away to find jobs somewhere else.....I expect you didn't experience any of that, so you need me to explain it to you.....they had to explain it to the teachers in Inkster, who didn't understand why they didn't need half the teachers they used to need......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

they loaded the retirement benefits instead of paying a decent wage

don't pretend public employees don't get a decent wage......

 

[PostmodernProphet]

engineered economic down turn

???...you think someone sat down and said..."you know what would be great?......let's have an economic down turn!".......

 

[Steelplate]

??...did you even notice the double digit unemployment we had?.....I suppose as a public employee it didn't matter to you...here in Michigan it effected as many as 14% of us for a long time....and a whole lot of people lost their homes, thus eliminating a whole lot of people paying property taxes, which pays for teachers and teacher's pension funds.....

then we had situations like they faced in Inkster, Michigan where over a three year period they lost nearly 50% of the students in the school system, when parents moved their families away to find jobs somewhere else.....I expect you didn't experience any of that, so you need me to explain it to you.....they had to explain it to the teachers in Inkster, who didn't understand why they didn't need half the teachers they used to need......

I don't know how they do it in Michigan, but here in Pennsylvania, the school districts are locally operated. They aren't mainstream employees of the Commonwealth. I do think that Teachers are worth what they make, however....I also think that they can be unreasonable in their contract negotiations. But, when you consider all of the individual School Districts are basically autonomous entities, there's going to be some of those localities where the teachers get nasty.

How did the mainstream state workers do?