Tears at thatchers death

Aoxomoxoa said:
I am sorry but I will not agree with that either, she did do some rotten things as well. Notably support for Pinochet, not recognising Mandela and speaking out against apartheid, not speaking out against Ronnie and his covert support for the Contras and the pool tax. But on balance she did a hell of a lot more good than bad.
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That dreaded pool tax. Yes, all the vitriol is now justified.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
I must say that I've been surprised at just how badly informed you are about those years. So here is something else that you can chose to ignore, Neil Kinnock speaking in 2009 on the madness of Arthur Scargill. I usually don't have a lot of time for Kinnochio but he is spot on the money here. Arthur Scargill wanted to bring down an elected government and he used the miners for his own ends. He refused three times to hold a national ballot. His hubris was his downfall and I feel sorry for the lions that were led by a fucking donkey.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/neil-kinnock-blasts-ex-miners-leader-1014250
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I really do not know what your problem is, Tom. You seem intent on nit picking your way out of the obvious. It's an old trick and one most unbecoming of a gentleman. Anyway, since you condemn every word said against your goddess and every person voicing the truth as mad or bad, here is Glenda Jackson. Mad, bad and right on the button. If you wish to take her speech to pieces in the hope of finding a tiny gap in her argument I hope you will contact her directly. She doesn't hide, you can send your anger and indignation to:
Postal Address:
Glenda Jackson MP, House of Commons, SW1A 0AA
Phone: 020 7219 4008
Fax: 020 7219 2112
E-mail: jacksong@parliament.uk


 
Lowaicue said:
I really do not know what your problem is, Tom. You seem intent on nit picking your way out of the obvious. It's an old trick and one most unbecoming of a gentleman. Anyway, since you condemn every word said against your goddess and every person voicing the truth as mad or bad, here is Glenda Jackson. Mad, bad and right on the button. If you wish to take her speech to pieces in the hope of finding a tiny gap in her argument I hope you will contact her directly. She doesn't hide, you can send your anger and indignation to:
Postal Address:
Glenda Jackson MP, House of Commons, SW1A 0AA
Phone: 020 7219 4008
Fax: 020 7219 2112
E-mail: jacksong@parliament.uk
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Low, you are the one who is being intransigent, it is not nitpicking to point out that miners were led by an idiot who wouldn't listen to anybody. I am just giving you the facts, you know perfectly well that Neil Kinnock was no friend of Maggies but at least he has enough integrity to tell the truth about Scargill. He was and still is a pompous prick, at least Joe Gormley had some principles. I feel sorry that you seem to get all your info from the likes of the Kens, Loach and Livingstone. I do not idolise Margaret Thatcher she did some wrong things but also many right things as well. That you are too churlish to recognise it is I suspect more down to you than anything else. Very little in this world is all black and white except maybe in old John Wayne films.

I used to go by Scargill's bungalow a lot one time maybe I should go there and put some Maggie effigies on his lawn!!
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
Low, you are the one who is being intransigent, it is not nitpicking to point out that miners were led by an idiot who wouldn't listen to anybody. I am just giving you the facts, you know perfectly well that Neil Kinnock was no friend of Maggies but at least he has enough integrity to tell the truth about Scargill. He was and still is a pompous prick, at least Joe Gormley had some principles. I feel sorry that you seem to get all your info from the likes of the Kens, Loach and Livingstone. I do not idolise Margaret Thatcher she did some wrong things but also many right things as well. That you are too churlish to recognise it is I suspect more down to you than anything else. Very little in this world is all black and white except maybe in old John Wayne films.

I used to go by Scargill's bungalow a lot one time maybe I should go there and put some Maggie effigies on his lawn!!
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Actually his description of your debate tactics was the best I've heard. He nailed it.
 
I was just talking about his grasp of British politics. When it comes to defending his brand of humour, he plays very loose with the facts!
 
Threedee said:
Too many facts and such? Yeah, that's a bitch of a tactic around here...
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I live quite near to where some of the bitterest battles were fought. I also knew some ex miners when I worked over at T-Mobile switch site in Barnsley and the call centre at Manvers. Manvers used to be a colliery but it is now mostly call centres and light engineering, they also turned a large part of it into a wetlands reserve for migratory birds. That took a lot of money as the site was full of toxic chemicals from the old slag heaps.

What people like Low will not acknowledge is that coal was a dying industry in the '80s. In fact Labour had shut down far more coal mines in the 1960-70s than were shut by the Conservatives in the 1980s. He also will not accept that the electricity generators were increasingly starting to use foreign coal from places like Australia and Poland because it was cheaper and they were guaranteed continuity of supply. All inconvenient facts but true nonetheless.

http://www.timaps.co.uk/place?pl=old-moor-wetland-centre
 
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Aoxomoxoa said:
Low, you are the one who is being intransigent, it is not nitpicking to point out that miners were led by an idiot who wouldn't listen to anybody. I am just giving you the facts, you know perfectly well that Neil Kinnock was no friend of Maggies but at least he has enough integrity to tell the truth about Scargill. He was and still is a pompous prick, at least Joe Gormley had some principles. I feel sorry that you seem to get all your info from the likes of the Kens, Loach and Livingstone. I do not idolise Margaret Thatcher she did some wrong things but also many right things as well. That you are too churlish to recognise it is I suspect more down to you than anything else. Very little in this world is all black and white except maybe in old John Wayne films.

I used to go by Scargill's bungalow a lot one time maybe I should go there and put some Maggie effigies on his lawn!!
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no Tom. My original point was that she was a nasty evil woman who divided the country and destroyed industries. Whether Kinnock was angel or fool is nothing whatever to do with it neither is the exact position of the Belgrano.
She destroyed people I knew, had she actually killed them with her own gnarled hands it would have been no worse.
Now, despite the fact that fully half of the country do not wish it ,her re-incarnation Cameron is spending 8 - 10 million pounds on a funeral that only 2000 people are permitted to attend and is closing public - PUBLIC - thoroughfares.
He called MPs back to the house yesterday so they could fawn and cream their well pressed pants in her name and that cost the taxpayer over 3 million pounds in claimable expenses. They are back anyway next week and could have waxed poetic to their hearts desire at no extra cost.
And he has the damn cheek to tell the British people, We are all in this together!
The country is perilously close to boiling over (I know neither the Mail nor the Express would agree). If that happens I'll be on the next plane, believe me.
I doubt that Cameron or Osborne will last the course and then you can all look forward to the other liar and cheat, Boris Johnson.
 
Lowaicue said:
no Tom. My original point was that she was a nasty evil woman who divided the country and destroyed industries. Whether Kinnock was angel or fool is nothing whatever to do with it neither is the exact position of the Belgrano.
She destroyed people I knew, had she actually killed them with her own gnarled hands it would have been no worse.
Now, despite the fact that fully half of the country do not wish it ,her re-incarnation Cameron is spending 8 - 10 million pounds on a funeral that only 2000 people are permitted to attend and is closing public - PUBLIC - thoroughfares.
He called MPs back to the house yesterday so they could fawn and cream their well pressed pants in her name and that cost the taxpayer over 3 million pounds in claimable expenses. They are back anyway next week and could have waxed poetic to their hearts desire at no extra cost.
And he has the damn cheek to tell the British people, We are all in this together!
The country is perilously close to boiling over (I know neither the Mail nor the Express would agree). If that happens I'll be on the next plane, believe me.
I doubt that Cameron or Osborne will last the course and then you can all look forward to the other liar and cheat, Boris Johnson.
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Well your original point was wrong, she inherited an economy that was damned near as fucked as it was possible to be by Labour and the unions. The car, motorbike and shipbuilding industries were well screwed before she even took office. I guess I must have lived in a totally different country to you, as this veritable wonderland of happy shiny people that you allude sadly escaped me. Why was Britain called the sick man of Europe in the '70s or have you forgotten that? The rest of your post is just a polemical rant you need to calm down dear, as your mate Michael Winner would have said, and pour yourself a bracing G & T.
If you really think that the boy Millipede and his henchman ED Ballups could do a better job then you are delusional, even Blair has called their policies or lack thereof out for what they are, a return to being the longest suicide note in history as in 1983. I know none of this will chime with you as I guess you are too long in the tooth to change your views now.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Well your original point was wrong, she inherited an economy that was damned near as fucked as it was possible to be by Labour and the unions. The car, motorbike and shipbuilding industries were well screwed before she even took office. I guess I must have lived in a totally different country to you, as this veritable wonderland of happy shiny people that you allude sadly escaped me. Why was Britain called the sick man of Europe in the '70s or have you forgotten that? The rest of your post is just a polemical rant you need to calm down dear, as your mate Michael Winner would have said, and pour yourself a bracing G & T.
If you really think that the boy Millipede and his henchman ED Ballups could do a better job then you are delusional, even Blair has called their policies or lack thereof out for what they are, a return to being the longest suicide note in history as in 1983. I know none of this will chime with you as I guess you are too long in the tooth to change your views now.
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I said in one of my earlier posts that the country was in such a bad situation that Mickey Mouse would have made it better. Once again you are willfully avoiding the point.
Just because things were bad before thatcher it does not mean that her way was the only solution. That is over simplified binary thought. That is precisely how she managed to get her policies accepted. We are wiser now, we know that the world is not either black or white.
I have no problem with her running down the mines and the steel, it was the speed and callousness by which she did it. But she declared war on the working people of the UK. It was war. A war declared by a mean spirited, racist, elitist bitch.
I see now that Dave has announced the creation of a million apprenticeships. (applause) but do you remember who got rid of them in the first place? The company I worked for had a thriving apprenticeship scheme that fed perfectly into the permanent labour force. Suddenly, one day, there were no apprentices. Now the Number Ten Twat is taking credit for bringing them back. BUT watch. There will not be a million jobs as a result. There is not that much industry left in our shoe shining economy. No, its another Tory lie.
Any man worth his salt who is not creaming it in selling financial services is a traitor to the cause of a fair, egalitarian society and should be ashamed to walk the streets.
I remember the total screw up by Eden and the non-government of MacMillan, the idiocy of Home so dont talk to me about the mistakes of labour when they had lost their way under Foot et al.
Anyway I will leave it there. You may feel content in your Daily Mail world (I was rather expecting some (snide?) comments re the photos of HK in that esteemed piece of Andrex.)
Put simply, we cannot afford one more minute of thatcherite Britain. (careful, your binary thought is showing!).
 
Lowaicue said:
I really do not know what your problem is, Tom. You seem intent on nit picking your way out of the obvious. It's an old trick and one most unbecoming of a gentleman. Anyway, since you condemn every word said against your goddess and every person voicing the truth as mad or bad, here is Glenda Jackson. Mad, bad and right on the button. If you wish to take her speech to pieces in the hope of finding a tiny gap in her argument I hope you will contact her directly. She doesn't hide, you can send your anger and indignation to:
Postal Address:
Glenda Jackson MP, House of Commons, SW1A 0AA
Phone: 020 7219 4008
Fax: 020 7219 2112
E-mail: jacksong@parliament.uk
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I was just wondering if you actually know what part of London fag ash Glenda represents? Hampstead for fucks sake, now I know that the Americans here have no idea what that means but you do. Ii is where all the champagne socialists and luvvies live. There she was banging on about how Maggie had caused 'the most heinous economic damage on my constituency' The same Hampstead where the average house costs more than whole postal districts of some cities. What a joke, is she hoping to get another Oscar??
 
OnearmSword said:
England was totally in the crapper when she took control. She turned it completely around. While doing so she destroyed many of the liars ,leeches and union asswipes that had so destroyed it! Those are the Brit asswipes we see so happily trashing her now. The American ones doing so now are just ignorant blowhards not worth the time it would take to educate their dumb asses.
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I couldn't agree more.

[Note that I speak as an Englishman who's lived most of his life in London, England.]

The Unions' Winter of Discontent was destroying us as a viable country. Not just strikes, but WAVE AFTER WAVE of strikes were happening.

The British people needed a way of escaping further lunacy of that kind. They had that way .. courtesy of a Conservative electoral victory .. with Margaret Thatcher utterly determined to make sure that such vandalism was stopped.

This she did, by a series of legal reforms which curbed their power.

On the very morning of her victory, a Union leader by the name of Sid Weighell, in a BBC interview, warned Mrs Thatcher that she would have to work with Unions if she wanted her job to go well .. meaning, of course, that the Unions wanted her opposition to them stamped out before it could ever begin. Mrs Thatcher's response was to simply ignore such disgusting arrogance.

She then proceeded as SHE chose to do, AS THE ELECTED PRIME MINISTER. She, over time, put the Unions in their place.

Today, we see the simmering hatreds of the Left expressing themselves once more, still alive because the Left had been denied its chance to keep destroying our viability as a major trading nation. To them, life was simple. Do things our way, knuckle under to blackmail, or suffer. Well ... Mrs Thatcher NEVER bent to their pernicious will.

And, boy ... do that trash hate her for it !

Mrs Thatcher was truly magnificent. I fear we'll never quite see her like ever again in British politics.
 
Britfire54 said:
I couldn't agree more.

[Note that I speak as an Englishman who's lived most of his life in London, England.]

The Unions' Winter of Discontent was destroying us as a viable country. Not just strikes, but WAVE AFTER WAVE of strikes were happening.

The British people needed a way of escaping further lunacy of that kind. They had that way .. courtesy of a Conservative electoral victory .. with Margaret Thatcher utterly determined to make sure that such vandalism was stopped.

This she did, by a series of legal reforms which curbed their power.

On the very morning of her victory, a Union leader by the name of Sid Weighell, in a BBC interview, warned Mrs Thatcher that she would have to work with Unions if she wanted her job to go well .. meaning, of course, that the Unions wanted her opposition to them stamped out before it could ever begin. Mrs Thatcher's response was to simply ignore such disgusting arrogance.

She then proceeded as SHE chose to do, AS THE ELECTED PRIME MINISTER. She, over time, put the Unions in their place.

Today, we see the simmering hatreds of the Left expressing themselves once more, still alive because the Left had been denied its chance to keep destroying our viability as a major trading nation. To them, life was simple. Do things our way, knuckle under to blackmail, or suffer. Well ... Mrs Thatcher NEVER bent to their pernicious will.

And, boy ... do that trash hate her for it !

Mrs Thatcher was truly magnificent. I fear we'll never quite see her like ever again in British politics.
Click to expand...

Holy shit, I have a number of friends that live in Wales and they are all socialists to a man and woman.
 
Lowaicue said:
I said in one of my earlier posts that the country was in such a bad situation that Mickey Mouse would have made it better. Once again you are willfully avoiding the point.
Just because things were bad before thatcher it does not mean that her way was the only solution. That is over simplified binary thought. That is precisely how she managed to get her policies accepted. We are wiser now, we know that the world is not either black or white.
I have no problem with her running down the mines and the steel, it was the speed and callousness by which she did it. But she declared war on the working people of the UK. It was war. A war declared by a mean spirited, racist, elitist bitch.
I see now that Dave has announced the creation of a million apprenticeships. (applause) but do you remember who got rid of them in the first place? The company I worked for had a thriving apprenticeship scheme that fed perfectly into the permanent labour force. Suddenly, one day, there were no apprentices. Now the Number Ten Twat is taking credit for bringing them back. BUT watch. There will not be a million jobs as a result. There is not that much industry left in our shoe shining economy. No, its another Tory lie.
Any man worth his salt who is not creaming it in selling financial services is a traitor to the cause of a fair, egalitarian society and should be ashamed to walk the streets.
I remember the total screw up by Eden and the non-government of MacMillan, the idiocy of Home so dont talk to me about the mistakes of labour when they had lost their way under Foot et al.
Anyway I will leave it there. You may feel content in your Daily Mail world (I was rather expecting some (snide?) comments re the photos of HK in that esteemed piece of Andrex.)
Put simply, we cannot afford one more minute of thatcherite Britain. (careful, your binary thought is showing!).
Click to expand...

I wonder what do you think Michael Foot would have done if he had been elected?
 
Britfire54 said:
I couldn't agree more.

[Note that I speak as an Englishman who's lived most of his life in London, England.]

The Unions' Winter of Discontent was destroying us as a viable country. Not just strikes, but WAVE AFTER WAVE of strikes were happening.

The British people needed a way of escaping further lunacy of that kind. They had that way .. courtesy of a Conservative electoral victory .. with Margaret Thatcher utterly determined to make sure that such vandalism was stopped.

This she did, by a series of legal reforms which curbed their power.

On the very morning of her victory, a Union leader by the name of Sid Weighell, in a BBC interview, warned Mrs Thatcher that she would have to work with Unions if she wanted her job to go well .. meaning, of course, that the Unions wanted her opposition to them stamped out before it could ever begin. Mrs Thatcher's response was to simply ignore such disgusting arrogance.

She then proceeded as SHE chose to do, AS THE ELECTED PRIME MINISTER. She, over time, put the Unions in their place.

Today, we see the simmering hatreds of the Left expressing themselves once more, still alive because the Left had been denied its chance to keep destroying our viability as a major trading nation. To them, life was simple. Do things our way, knuckle under to blackmail, or suffer. Well ... Mrs Thatcher NEVER bent to their pernicious will.

And, boy ... do that trash hate her for it !

Mrs Thatcher was truly magnificent. I fear we'll never quite see her like ever again in British politics.
Click to expand...

Are you a Cardiff Cockney?
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Holy shit, I have a number of friends that live in Wales and they are all socialists to a man and woman.
Click to expand...

You're right ... Wales is a Socialist 'stronghold'. Still, it has Conservatives, too ... if you spend enough time trying to find them ...

But in any case, I'm English. I moved from London to south Wales a couple of years ago.
 
Aoxomoxoa said:
Holy shit, I have a number of friends that live in Wales and they are all socialists to a man and woman.
Click to expand...

You're right ... Wales is a Socialist 'stronghold'. Still, it has Conservatives, too ... if you spend enough time trying to find them ...

But in any case, I'm English. I moved from London to south Wales a couple of years ago.
 
Sorry about the duplication.

Cardiff Cockney ... nope ! I was from north London, too far away from that region of London that would qualify me to be Cockney. Besides, I'm not in Cardiff .. but several miles to the east of it .....
 
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