Draft - for Threedee

M

midcan5

Member
Americans today have no sense of duty to nation, they all preach a lot of bullshit about love of country and American exceptionalism, but the only thing exceptional about them is they take from those who came before them, and words, and words are often empty and useless. Since Threedee, whoever you may be today, uses a quote from one of my posts, this thread is dedicated to him or her.


"And libertarians who object to a draft could opt out. Those who declined to help Uncle Sam would in return pledge to ask nothing from him — no Medicare, no subsidized college loans and no mortgage guarantees. Those who want minimal government can have it."


"But most of all, having a draft might, as General McChrystal said, make Americans think more carefully before going to war. Imagine the savings — in blood, tears and national treasure — if we had thought twice about whether we really wanted to invade Iraq."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/opinion/lets-draft-our-kids.html
 
midcan5 said:
Americans today have no sense of duty to nation, they all preach a lot of bullshit about love of country and American exceptionalism, but the only thing exceptional about them is they take from those who came before them, and words, and words are often empty and useless. Since Threedee, whoever you may be today, uses a quote from one of my posts, this thread is dedicated to him or her.


"And libertarians who object to a draft could opt out. Those who declined to help Uncle Sam would in return pledge to ask nothing from him — no Medicare, no subsidized college loans and no mortgage guarantees. Those who want minimal government can have it."


"But most of all, having a draft might, as General McChrystal said, make Americans think more carefully before going to war. Imagine the savings — in blood, tears and national treasure — if we had thought twice about whether we really wanted to invade Iraq."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/opinion/lets-draft-our-kids.html
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Why do you think we had a draft for so many years? Why do you think our founding fathers feared standing Armies? Why do you think Washington warned us about professional armies? Why do you think Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex?

The lesson of Pearl Harbor is clear, relying on a non-professional volunteer service in peace time leaves us vulnerable to attack. So we need to strike a balance but keep a critical eye on the military industrial establishment but we also need to use the draft for just the reasons you stated. It's also the reason why politicians oppose the draft.

Had we had to implement a draft for the war on Terrorism we would have never invaded Iraq so your point is valid.
 
midcan5 said:
"But most of all, having a draft might, as General McChrystal said, make Americans think more carefully before going to war. Imagine the savings — in blood, tears and national treasure — if we had thought twice about whether we really wanted to invade Iraq."
Click to expand...
Iraq War Resolution.....PASSED with bipartisan vote.....thanks to the 110 Democrats that helped pass the resolution....
To imply they were too stupid to realize what the vote meant is pure and utter bullshit.

Not to disrespect the General, but.....Vietnam War...........We had a draft

The worst modern day debacle in US history was the Vietnam War....Largely under the direction of President Johnson (D)

2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam.

58,148 were killed in Vietnam.

75,000 were severely disabled.

23,214 were 100% disabled.

5,283 lost limbs.

1,081 sustained multiple amputations.

Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21.

11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.

Of those killed, 17,539 were married.

Average age of men killed: 23.1 years.

Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.

2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.

86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races.

Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.
 
bravo said:
Iraq War Resolution.....PASSED with bipartisan vote.....thanks to the 110 Democrats that helped pass the resolution....
To imply they were too stupid to realize what the vote meant is pure and utter bullshit.

Not to disrespect the General, but.....Vietnam War...........We had a draft

The worst modern day debacle in US history was the Vietnam War....Largely under the direction of President Johnson (D)

2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam.

58,148 were killed in Vietnam.

75,000 were severely disabled.

23,214 were 100% disabled.

5,283 lost limbs.

1,081 sustained multiple amputations.

Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21.

11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.

Of those killed, 17,539 were married.

Average age of men killed: 23.1 years.

Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.

2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.

86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races.

Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.
Click to expand...
Yea and are you forgetting about the large number of protests due to the draft that galvanized opposition to the Vietnam war?
 
bravo said:
Iraq War Resolution.....PASSED with bipartisan vote.....thanks to the 110 Democrats that helped pass the resolution....
To imply they were too stupid to realize what the vote meant is pure and utter bullshit.

Not to disrespect the General, but.....Vietnam War...........We had a draft

The worst modern day debacle in US history was the Vietnam War....Largely under the direction of President Johnson (D)

2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam.

58,148 were killed in Vietnam.

75,000 were severely disabled.

23,214 were 100% disabled.

5,283 lost limbs.

1,081 sustained multiple amputations.

Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21.

11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.

Of those killed, 17,539 were married.

Average age of men killed: 23.1 years.

Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.

2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers.

86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races.

Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.
Click to expand...

We were lied into most all of our wars. It doesn't matter by which party, the fact is, they never tell us the truth, because if they did, there would not have been a Vietnam War, Iraq Wars or possibly an Afghanistan war.

It is too bad that our government deceives "we the people"
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yea and are you forgetting about the large number of protests due to the draft that galvanized opposition to the Vietnam war?
Click to expand...


I'm not 'forgetting' anything......my post is not about war protests......every war we've ever been has had its protesters and draft dodgers....
what's your point......
Protesting war is another subject all its own.....and the protesters have their own reasons for opposing wars besides the draft.....

Nothing changes the fact that our wars have been sanctioned by the Congress in one way or another.....they're the ones that vote and/or finance them and
allow them to take place.....
 
bravo said:
I'm not 'forgetting' anything......my post is not about war protests......every war we've ever been has had its protesters and draft dodgers....
what's your point......
Protesting war is another subject all its own.....and the protesters have their own reasons for opposing wars besides the draft.....

Nothing changes the fact that our wars have been sanctioned by the Congress in one way or another.....they're the ones that vote and/or finance them and
allow them to take place.....
Click to expand...

Yes, voted for after they were mislead and even lied to!
 
Wow, I have my own thread! That said, this added context of which Midcan spoke is still fascism. It really doesn't make him look better...
 
the 13th Amendment prevents the draft. The fact that not only the executive and the legislative branches designed and utilized the draft, but that the USSC had the gall to say that it's constitutional, in the face of direct words stating the opposite, should tell us all that the courts have lost all legitimacy.....but we can't have that because we prefer fascism to anarchy.
 
What kind of self respecting liberal supports the draft? You guys have done a lot of harm... but at least you have a shred of decency and concern for the demos.Or at least that's what I thought.
 
Threedee said:
Wow, I have my own thread! That said, this added context of which Midcan spoke is still fascism. It really doesn't make him look better...
Click to expand...
Ahhh I see....it's libertarianism when you talk about it applying to others but when Midcan suggests that you walk the talk it's fascism?

NO CREDIBILITY!!

Come on 3D put up or shut up!
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Sure it would be.....if they drafted you. :)
Click to expand...

Nope. I have opposed all wars that I was available to oppose. I would have been okay with Afghanistan if there had been a real declaration of war. I am now beyond draft age and I am not going to suddenly start supporting wars.

Most of the young voters who would have been affected by a draft have opposed the Republicans who are seen as more bellicose in support of military action. If Democrats were actually opposed to excessive use of military that demographic might swing more to their side, with or without a draft. I don't see any reason to believe that the draft has any effect on your views on war.
 
I love how the southern trash throws The Great Emancipator in with the three leftists, one of which was the opposite of an emancipator.
 
Threedee said:
I love how the southern trash throws The Great Emancipator in with the three leftists, one of which was the opposite of an emancipator.
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The southern trash is from South Jersey as in New Jersey.

And because I'm white and Christian doesn't make me trash either.

Your dictator ... the wealthy trial lawyer and lobbyist for the railroads committed one of the worst atrocities in history.

Does that clear everything up for you?
 
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