Bad News For the Keystone XL

Don Quixote said:
and when, not if it fails, tar sand oil is also rather corrosive compared to crude oil
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lol... so because eventually (which can be anywhere from tomorrow-100 years in the future) it will have an accident, we shouldn't build it?

Planes eventually have accidents. So do auto's. So do buildings. Etc... nothing is meant to last forever. It is blatantly silly to pretend that because things eventually break down, we shouldn't build them to begin with.
 
Don Quixote said:
how about a new infrastructure that is not hazardous to our environment?
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such as what? Roads? You know what roads are made of don't you? How about bridges? You know what steel production does to the environment? How about dams? You know what they do to the environment?
 
Superfreak said:
lol... so because eventually (which can be anywhere from tomorrow-100 years in the future) it will have an accident, we shouldn't build it?

Planes eventually have accidents. So do auto's. So do buildings. Etc... nothing is meant to last forever. It is blatantly silly to pretend that because things eventually break down, we shouldn't build them to begin with.
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Shouldn't have children either, they're just gonna die.
 
Lucius Cornelius Sulla said:
So....nothing? Everything is damaging to the environment or potentially so. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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yet most of the same people that oppose pipelines want to build high speed trains... wonder what those will do to local wildlife? Did they not just post about a train wreck in this thread? What happens when that train derails?
 
Superfreak said:
yet most of the same people that oppose pipelines want to build high speed trains... wonder what those will do to local wildlife? Did they not just post about a train wreck in this thread? What happens when that train derails?
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Or wind farms. Ever see how wind farms fuck up birds and migration patterns? Not to mention the environmental cost of all the materials involved...
 
Superfreak said:
Yes



1) Nothing is safe to the environment FOREVER, it has to be maintained
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If the Pegasus pipeline wasn't maintained what guarantee do we have Keystone will be?

Superfreak said:
Yes




2) It does bring benefit to the US
3) It does create sustainable jobs at the US refineries in TX
4) Even if it were just temporary jobs, they would be temporary jobs at a time we desperately need jobs.
5) Almost all infrastructure development jobs are temporary...
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Cite?
 
Howey said:
If the Pegasus pipeline wasn't maintained what guarantee do we have Keystone will be?
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Well gee Howey, we have no guarantee that any of our infrastructure will be maintained. Pegasus was over 60 years old. Saying 'it wasn't maintained' is a bit of a stretch. There is only so much you can do to keep something together... eventually it has to be replaced. You know... like by building a new pipeline?

Cite?
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Common sense.

1) Benefits to the US... revenues to the states for the pipelines, revenue to the refineries in TX, jobs at the refineries, jobs maintaining the pipelines

2) Jobs at the refineries are a given... the oil does not refine itself

3) Unemployment is still above 7.5%... so we do desperately need jobs, even if they only last a few years (in reality those are the perfect jobs for this environment)

4) Once a bridge/road etc... is built, the crews don't continue working on those projects... because they are done.
 
Superfreak said:
lol... so because eventually (which can be anywhere from tomorrow-100 years in the future) it will have an accident, we shouldn't build it?

Planes eventually have accidents. So do auto's. So do buildings. Etc... nothing is meant to last forever. It is blatantly silly to pretend that because things eventually break down, we shouldn't build them to begin with.
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in this case i think it will be sooner rather than later unless the pipe is coated with something to offset the corrosiveness of the 'oil'
 
Superfreak said:
Yes



1) Nothing is safe to the environment FOREVER, it has to be maintained
2) It does bring benefit to the US
3) It does create sustainable jobs at the US refineries in TX
4) Even if it were just temporary jobs, they would be temporary jobs at a time we desperately need jobs.
5) Almost all infrastructure development jobs are temporary...
Click to expand...

so jobs at any cost, i this is so, then why does not congress pass a jobs bill

oil companies have a bad reputation regarding maintenance of pipelines, come to think of it, they have a bad reputation period...their motto is 'trust us'

as for 1940's pipeline, maybe they built them better then, but documentation have you?
 
Superfreak said:
Well gee Howey, we have no guarantee that any of our infrastructure will be maintained. Pegasus was over 60 years old. Saying 'it wasn't maintained' is a bit of a stretch. There is only so much you can do to keep something together... eventually it has to be replaced. You know... like by building a new pipeline?



Common sense.

1) Benefits to the US... revenues to the states for the pipelines, revenue to the refineries in TX, jobs at the refineries, jobs maintaining the pipelines

2) Jobs at the refineries are a given... the oil does not refine itself

3) Unemployment is still above 7.5%... so we do desperately need jobs, even if they only last a few years (in reality those are the perfect jobs for this environment)

4) Once a bridge/road etc... is built, the crews don't continue working on those projects... because they are done.
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how can you cite common sense when it is so rare and profits so important...it is the bottom line each quarter that gives CEO's the big bucks
 
The divelopment of alternative fuels have been dampered over a course of 75 years or so, by the oil industry. Once a system is in place... financial interests solidify and work to keep things are they are.

Slowly, those who stand to gain money by a change will build and push. Dont fool yourselves, in a Capitolist system, these things are not focused on whats in society's best interest, they are driven by who has the money to get things to be done the way they want them to be done.
 
Don Quixote said:
in this case i think it will be sooner rather than later unless the pipe is coated with something to offset the corrosiveness of the 'oil'
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Enlighten me on the corrosives of the oil and how fast that will occur. Also, do you think the oil companies have never transported such oil before?
 
Don Quixote said:
so jobs at any cost, i this is so, then why does not congress pass a jobs bill

oil companies have a bad reputation regarding maintenance of pipelines, come to think of it, they have a bad reputation period...their motto is 'trust us'

as for 1940's pipeline, maybe they built them better then, but documentation have you?
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Jobs at any cost? No.

Jobs that make sense, yes.

Given the amount of oil transported on an annual basis, I would say they have a done a damn good job with maintenance.

Documentation for what? When it was built?
 
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