now here is some federal idiocy

SmarterthanYou said:
it appears that I pissed in your cheerios today. good.

now let me ask you, and maybe you'll be smart enough to answer, why is it not idiocy to demand that a gun manufacturer hire convicted felons, especially when there are federal laws that prohibit felons from possessing firearms?
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I am not entirely sure how manufacturing something equates with owning that something. Should Rolls Royce only employ people on its assembly line that are capable of purchasing one?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
now THERE is a strawman! :good4u:
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seriously. Is there a federal law that says that convicted felons cannot be employed at firms that manufacture firearms? If not, then it would seem that the firearms manufacturers do not have legal standing to refuse employment based upon that status.
 
expatriate said:
seriously. Is there a federal law that says that convicted felons cannot be employed at firms that manufacture firearms? If not, then it would seem that the firearms manufacturers do not have legal standing to refuse employment based upon that status.
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there is a federal law that prohibits possession, transfer, or manufacture of a firearm. that would include unloaded firearms and firearms that are not operable. There are also a handful of federal cases that set a precedent for constructive possession, meaning that even if said felon were sharing an apartment or house with a non felon and that non felon owned guns, the felon could be charged with constructive possession unless those firearms were securely locked away with no possibility that felon could access them.
 
again... you failed to answer my question: does federal law prohibit convicted felons from working for a company that manufactures firearms?
 
expatriate said:
I am not entirely sure how manufacturing something equates with owning that something. Should Rolls Royce only employ people on its assembly line that are capable of purchasing one?
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:palm:

I...I....the stupidity of people...holy buttfucking hell...

tumblr_lmi77td4Ha1qa34hr.jpg
 
expatriate said:
and gratuitous insults really lower the level of debate, don't you agree?
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When the question has been answered about 12 times in prior posts, I can only assume that you have reading comprehension problems, and I don't like repeating myself to said people because it's pretty obvious that they won't absorb even the most miniscule amount of information.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
what part of prohibited possession, transfer, OR MANUFACTURE of firearms did you not understand?
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I guess I would be hard pressed to consider a young fellow who works in Smith & Wesson's accounting department to be actually manufacturing fire arms.... and I doubt that employment at a firm that does manufacture such a product was not really what that line of the law had in mind... but, clearly, you, somehow, know what the legislative history and intent was, right?
 
expatriate said:
I guess I would be hard pressed to consider a young fellow who works in Smith & Wesson's accounting department to be actually manufacturing fire arms.... and I doubt that employment at a firm that does manufacture such a product was not really what that line of the law had in mind... but, clearly, you, somehow, know what the legislative history and intent was, right?
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Doesn't matter what the intent of the law is, it matters what it says. And it says, fuck no, no exceptions. If infantrymen aren't allowed to have guns, the ONLY tool for their job, then the law certainly applies to people working for a manufacturer.
 
I would have to see the actual verbage that stated that a convicted felon was not allowed to work for a gun manufacturer in any capacity. They can't wash dishes in the company cafeteria? They can't empty the trash? They can't work in the payroll department? I just find that a bit hard to believe, that's all.
 
expatriate said:
I would have to see the actual verbage that stated that a convicted felon was not allowed to work for a gun manufacturer in any capacity. They can't wash dishes in the company cafeteria? They can't empty the trash? They can't work in the payroll department? I just find that a bit hard to believe, that's all.
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Already gave you the two bodies of law that state felons cannot work in a place where they have access to firearms.
 
expatriate said:
I would have to see the actual verbage that stated that a convicted felon was not allowed to work for a gun manufacturer in any capacity. They can't wash dishes in the company cafeteria? They can't empty the trash? They can't work in the payroll department? I just find that a bit hard to believe, that's all.
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if you wish to try to find carved out exceptions in the wording of a law, feel free. people have been trying to do that for years, which is how the ATF and the courts colluded to come up with the 'constructive possession' doctrine.

http://www.rip.uscourts.gov/rip/supervision/firearmpossession/FirearmPossessionProhibition.pdf

“Constructive possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and intention at
a given time of exercising dominion and control over the object or over the area in which the object
is locate....” (See U.S. v Booth, et.al. 111 F.3d 2 [1st Cir. September 1997]). If you know the
firearm is present in your residence, vehicle, etc., and if it can be shown that you have the ability to
access and exercise control over that firearm personally or through another individual, then you
could be considered to have constructive possession of the firearm. You would then be subject to
new criminal charges
 
I would suggest that a dishwasher at S&W does not have the ability to access and exercise control over firearms. Clearly, the Obama administration seems to feel the same way. And what about, say, Sears? Can felons work there selling dishwashers even though the store may have a sporting goods department that sells firearms?
 
expatriate said:
I would suggest that a dishwasher at S&W does not have the ability to access and exercise control over firearms. Clearly, the Obama administration seems to feel the same way. And what about, say, Sears? Can felons work there selling dishwashers even though the store may have a sporting goods department that sells firearms?
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Then cite it.
 
expatriate said:
I would suggest that a dishwasher at S&W does not have the ability to access and exercise control over firearms. Clearly, the Obama administration seems to feel the same way. And what about, say, Sears? Can felons work there selling dishwashers even though the store may have a sporting goods department that sells firearms?
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did you even bother to read the article? let me give you a paragraph....

Company officials pointed out to commission investigators threatening to charge the company with discrimination that they couldn’t hire felons even if they wanted to, because federal law prohibits federal firearms licensees from hiring felons. The investigator’s response was, according to a company official I talked to: “That’s your problem, not ours.” These are investigators and regulators who can read between the lines, know their bosses are anti-gun and will do anything they can to please them.
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SmarterthanYou said:
if you wish to try to find carved out exceptions in the wording of a law, feel free. people have been trying to do that for years, which is how the ATF and the courts colluded to come up with the 'constructive possession' doctrine.

http://www.rip.uscourts.gov/rip/supervision/firearmpossession/FirearmPossessionProhibition.pdf

“Constructive possession exists when a person knowingly has the power and intention at
a given time of exercising dominion and control over the object or over the area in which the object
is locate....” (See U.S. v Booth, et.al. 111 F.3d 2 [1st Cir. September 1997]). If you know the
firearm is present in your residence, vehicle, etc., and if it can be shown that you have the ability to
access and exercise control over that firearm personally or through another individual, then you
could be considered to have constructive possession of the firearm. You would then be subject to
new criminal charges
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again, I fail to see where that quote prohibits a felon from washing dishes at a firm that happens to manufacture or sell firearms.
 
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