Krugman: Obama Could 'Go Down In History As The Wimp Who Threw It All Away'

[Mott the Hoople]

Oh but it really is. I read a crazy stat a day or two ago, I wish I could find it, but it was something along the lines of; if you make 35k you are among the world's richest 2%".

It's a lot of damned money. But I think what is most important is that you have to make over 250k to qualify for the tax hike (If Obama had stuck to what he swore he would never back down on!). So you say 250 isn't rich. Okay.

What is?

Let's say you make 260k. You now have to pay a slightly higher tax rate on your last 10 grand in income. What does that cost you? Very little. You are not paying it on the entire 260. (I am sure you know this, but I feel it helps to remind everyone exactly what we are talking about here) So even if you feel you are not rich at 260k, so what? You are only paying a few more bucks a year! You are comfortable enough that it won't hurt you. It just won't. Yeah I know, it costs so much to put your kids to college, etc etc. Guess what? The couple of bucks you have to pay on the 10 grand over the 250 cutoff, isn't sending your kids to college. Let's be frank; it's not even footing the bill for your Starbucks every morning. In fact, not even your Dunkin Donuts bill, if you prefer them!

Don't be dissin Dunkin Doughnuts. They have way better coffee than starbucks does!

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Don't be dissin Dunkin Doughnuts. They have way better coffee than starbucks does!

Not dissing them, I totally agree.

 

[Althea]

Firstly, I believe that Americans would do their souls well to give a thought, every once in a while, to how the overwhelming majority of the world lives.

Secondly, the percentage of American households with incomes over 250k is somewhere between 2 and 4 percent, I forget the exact number. When you are in the top 2 to 4 percent nationwide, you are living a startling well-off life.

Most important, because this is the thing that bothers me most. I always hear from high-earners and about high-earners, that they have bills other people don't have. Do you know how much my mortgage is? Do you know what my expenses are? I know someone well whose husband was making 800k a year for several years. Things crashed and she was crying about it all of the time. I told her, look I do understand it's an adjustment from being rich, but...

I got no further. She went sideways 'WE WERE NEVER RICH! DO YOU KNOW THE EXPENSES WE HAVE???"

Yeah, I kinda do! You have a multi-million dollar home, a large pool that you have an actual pool boy for, expensive landscaping and upkeep on that, a custom-built huge closet filled with very expensive designer clothes, some of them custom made, let's see, 2 eight hundred dollar pairs of Cartier sunglasses because one wasn't enough...and so and so on and so on.

My point is, wtf is wrong with you people? THAT'S BEING RICH! It's as if people think that if you're rich, you shouldn't have any expenses or bills. As if that 800k should be what you have after all of your expenses, then you'd be rich. Sorry, no. You are living a rich lifestyle moron, and yeah, that costs money.

Doesn't mean you're not rich. It means you are rich.

I laugh over this stuff, and people always think they can trump me by pointing out that after all, I have no children I can afford designer clothes and this and that, and sure what would a tax hike cost me? I have nothing else to do with my m oney! Because they are spending all of that 800k on their kids! LOL

Seriously, this whole mindset makes zero sense, it's laughable on its face, and you can compare yourself nationally, and then if you have the goddamned guts for it, compare yourself globally...and feel good.

Why is it that people with so much feel so freaking lousy all of the time? I mean, they snarl. It's fucked up man. I feel good, and I don't make 800k I can tell you that, but I do nicely, I am content, and I will pay higher taxes without feeling hate. I also give generously to Unicef and Doctors without borders, as well as to LI Cares for the local hungry. Because although I don't own an 800 dollar pair of sunglasses, I don't need another pair of 200 dollar ones. I have enough.

Do Americans ever know what that means??? I have enough. God that feels good. No snarling needed. Feel good!

Well, yes. I've always laughed at those with 4 houses, 5 Mercedes, etc. Their lifestyle is such that they spend a lot of the 10million/year that the breadwinner earns.

But they live in excess. And the new tax rates won't even affect them, because they don't pay marginal rates.

That's why the 20% cap gains rate was a joke. They should've had it go up after 1 million in income.



But getting back, above...you didn't describe the lifestyle of the average $250k/yr family.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Well, yes. I've always laughed at those with 4 houses, 5 Mercedes, etc. Their lifestyle is such that they spend a lot of the 10million/year that the breadwinner earns.
http://www.justplainpolitics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1144823
But they live in excess. And the new tax rates won't even affect them, because they don't pay marginal rates.

That's why the 20% cap gains rate was a joke. They should've had it go up after 1 million in income.



But getting back, above...you didn't describe the lifestyle of the average $250k/yr family.

I think it is pathetic that people are even having this conversation. It is nobody elses business what lifestyle someone leads and how they spend their money if they aren't breaking any laws and are earning their money legally.

The argument Darla seems to be making is "I have determined that you have enough and you don't need anymore so I am going to take it and give it to someone else". That is a great place to be if you aren't the one having your property taken against your will. And let's be honest. That is what we are talking about.

We have gotten into a world where words don't even mean things anymore. Raising taxes aren't even called raising taxes anymore they are called "revenues". The fed printing money isn't even called printing money anymore. It is called "quantitative easing". I used to think the American people weren't dumb enough to fall for this crap, but this past two presidential elections have disabused me of that notion.

So now I will sit back and mock and laugh at those who will reap what they sowed.

Has anyones life materially changed because the top 2% just saw their taxes increase? Not once iota and it won't. But, you can damned be sure that Obama and his boot lickers in the media will make you think that your life has somehow gotten better and you best be damned grateful for it.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Well, yes. I've always laughed at those with 4 houses, 5 Mercedes, etc. Their lifestyle is such that they spend a lot of the 10million/year that the breadwinner earns.

But they live in excess. And the new tax rates won't even affect them, because they don't pay marginal rates.

That's why the 20% cap gains rate was a joke. They should've had it go up after 1 million in income.



But getting back, above...you didn't describe the lifestyle of the average $250k/yr family.

No I didn't. How can I? You have to make over 250 in order to be affected (if Obama had stuck by his original promise). So who is the average 251k earner? How many Americans earn 251k? Who is the average 252k earner? How many of those are there?

At what point does one become rich? It seems we have now defined "rich" as 450k. Meanwhile I personally know someone who believes 800k isn't rich. So how do we define rich?

If you are making over 250k , you can afford a few lousy dollars more on any income over that number.

IMO it's ludicrous to claim otherwise. I also personally believe it is near-depraved to make these claims when this world, and to be clear, our very own country, knows such deprivation. I am deeply disappointed in Obama for doing so.

However...I could have lived with this if he wasn't dead set on a "grand bargain" for "balance".

The Rude Pundit maybe two years go, wrote this post about how he was waiting in line at a drug store. And an old lady was buying a pair of "cheap socks and a small container of orange juice'. She was informed the copay on her medicine had gone up by a couple of dollars. She put the socks and the orange juice back. That small story right there is heart breaking in so many ways.

What Obama is saying is that cutting her SS over the years via chained cpi, "balances" tax hikes on people making tremendous sums of money.

There is no comparison. It is a phony construct, and it is morally depraved to say that an old lady can't have some fucking orange juice because we need to "justify" getting CLinton-era tax rates on the well off and the rich.

And making the argument that those between 251k and 450k aren't really rich, plays right into that phony construct. It puts people making over 251k and less than 451k, in the same category as an old lady who has to choose between a pair of cheap socks and her medicine.

Who cares if they are rich or not? No one defines that term the same. You can't come to a consensus on what that term means. But if this country can't come to a consensus on old ladies and old men being able to afford some fucking orange juice, then we are well rid of the lot of us!

 

[canceled.2021.1]

I see lots of old people pissing their money away in Casino's

 

[evince]

Just by the numbers 250k a year makes you way richer than most Americans.

that makes you rich.

250k would be easy as hell to live on in MOST American cities.

The way Obama did this was he set it lower than he really wanted ( I know I wish it was 250k also).


The dealo is many of the Dems in congress have people who give them money in cities like SAN FRAN and NY.

In those cities 250k doesnt seem so rich.


Alot of the dems in congress were HAPPY to have that number raised.


It made it look like Obama really sacraficed.

 

[blackascoal]

What makes you or Krugman think the GOP won't roll over like they did on this issue and like they did on the last debt limit debacle? Boehner is an incompetent boob and so i McConnell.

"Roll over" is the mindfuck .. seriously.

Republicans came out of this deal better than the democrats .. and FAR better positioned for the next round.

 

[blackascoal]

Well, yes. I've always laughed at those with 4 houses, 5 Mercedes, etc. Their lifestyle is such that they spend a lot of the 10million/year that the breadwinner earns.

But they live in excess. And the new tax rates won't even affect them, because they don't pay marginal rates.

That's why the 20% cap gains rate was a joke. They should've had it go up after 1 million in income.



But getting back, above...you didn't describe the lifestyle of the average $250k/yr family.

What you describe is indeed amazing.

It demonstrates that in the process of human evolution .. we are currently stuck on stupid.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

"Roll over" is the mindfuck .. seriously.

Republicans came out of this deal better than the democrats .. and FAR better positioned for the next round.

I'd love to hear the reasoning on that one.

A party that just splintered in 2 before our very eyes, and managed to lose even more public support even though they conceded on just about everything...and they came out of it better?

Beg to differ on that one.

 

[evince]

I think Preident O is serious about NOT allowing the debt ceiling to be used.

If you remember there was talk about how he could overirde the congress and take it from their hands as an emergency measure to protect the country from disastor.

I think that is what he will do now that he does not have to worry about relection

 

[blackascoal]

I think Preident O is serious about NOT allowing the debt ceiling to be used.

If you remember there was talk about how he could overirde the congress and take it from their hands as an emergency measure to protect the country from disastor.

I think that is what he will do now that he does not have to worry about relection

Not having to worry about the next election means that he doesn't have to worry about you or anybody else who isn't going to paint his walls with gold .. no differently than Bill Clinton. He's a corporatist.

When Obama says that he's going to stand his ground, it's a clear signal that he isn't.

He is a corporatist .. and corporations have benefitted from this deal FAR more than the American people.

Smoke and mirrors.

Social Security and Medicare are what they're after, and no matter what Obama about says about standing his anything .. SS and Medicare are what he's going to give them.

That's what this is all about.

 

[Althea]

No I didn't. How can I? You have to make over 250 in order to be affected (if Obama had stuck by his original promise). So who is the average 251k earner? How many Americans earn 251k? Who is the average 252k earner? How many of those are there?

At what point does one become rich? It seems we have now defined "rich" as 450k. Meanwhile I personally know someone who believes 800k isn't rich. So how do we define rich?

If you are making over 250k , you can afford a few lousy dollars more on any income over that number.

IMO it's ludicrous to claim otherwise. I also personally believe it is near-depraved to make these claims when this world, and to be clear, our very own country, knows such deprivation. I am deeply disappointed in Obama for doing so.

However...I could have lived with this if he wasn't dead set on a "grand bargain" for "balance".

The Rude Pundit maybe two years go, wrote this post about how he was waiting in line at a drug store. And an old lady was buying a pair of "cheap socks and a small container of orange juice'. She was informed the copay on her medicine had gone up by a couple of dollars. She put the socks and the orange juice back. That small story right there is heart breaking in so many ways.

What Obama is saying is that cutting her SS over the years via chained cpi, "balances" tax hikes on people making tremendous sums of money.

There is no comparison. It is a phony construct, and it is morally depraved to say that an old lady can't have some fucking orange juice because we need to "justify" getting CLinton-era tax rates on the well off and the rich.

And making the argument that those between 251k and 450k aren't really rich, plays right into that phony construct. It puts people making over 251k and less than 451k, in the same category as an old lady who has to choose between a pair of cheap socks and her medicine.

Who cares if they are rich or not? No one defines that term the same. You can't come to a consensus on what that term means. But if this country can't come to a consensus on old ladies and old men being able to afford some fucking orange juice, then we are well rid of the lot of us!

Well now you expand the discussion even more.

I question why our parents (mine are gone) are cash cows for Big Pharma? Was is Granny taking all of those meds that she doesn't even need? Why are people on ventilators with no hope of recovery, required by law to be kept alive for years?

Address these two issues alone, and you've gone a long way to freeing up billions for delivering actual care to millions of people.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Well now you expand the discussion even more.

I question why our parents (mine are gone) are cash cows for Big Pharma? Was is Granny taking all of those meds that she doesn't even need? Why are people on ventilators with no hope of recovery, required by law to be kept alive for years?

Address these two issues alone, and you've gone a long way to freeing up billions for delivering actual care to millions of people.

Well, first this is a separate issue from the chained CPI on SS. Which is outrageous and I am hoping that progressive groups get their shit together and organize the way they did when they killed Bush's SS scheme deader than a doornail.

As to what you are saying here, I once got to hear the head of LI North Shore LI Jewish Network speak on this. He told about his mom who died in Ireland, and they do not take extraordinary measures at end of life there. I was really fascinated by what he had to say and at a later date I was very lucky to be able to have lunch with him, something that I kind of finagled because I found him so interesting. Anyway, at that talk he gave, it was a business group,and you should have seen the resistance right off to what he was saying.

And we saw what happened when Obama even mentioned end of life planning, something totally different, which turned into "death panels'.

This country is so freaking immature and so freaking selfish, narcissistic really, most really don't believe they are going die at all. I am totally convinced of this. And we are like vampires, completely willing to suck the life force from the young if it gives us a little more time. This country is infantile on death, even worse than they are about sex. We're never going to get where you're going with this.

 

[Airstrip One]

I'm so pissed that my SS tax is going up, and I can't even write it off as a charitable giving!

 

[Althea]

Well, first this is a separate issue from the chained CPI on SS. Which is outrageous and I am hoping that progressive groups get their shit together and organize the way they did when they killed Bush's SS scheme deader than a doornail.

But her raised copay is not a separate issue from what I'm discussing. SS disability is bilking the system, not the retirement benefit. I don't know why nobody cares to address that.

As to what you are saying here, I once got to hear the head of LI North Shore LI Jewish Network speak on this. He told about his mom who died in Ireland, and they do not take extraordinary measures at end of life there. I was really fascinated by what he had to say and at a later date I was very lucky to be able to have lunch with him, something that I kind of finagled because I found him so interesting. Anyway, at that talk he gave, it was a business group,and you should have seen the resistance right off to what he was saying.

And we saw what happened when Obama even mentioned end of life planning, something totally different, which turned into "death panels'.

What was it that he was saying? Did he believe that patients w/no DNR should be allowed to die with dignity? Quite often, it is the children of one of these patients who won't let them be unhooked. Typically, they're living off of the patient's monthly SS/Pension, or other stipend, and they're too greedy to allow the parent to pass peacefully.

So you know that LIJ is a teaching hospital, and they not only use the near death patients to practice on, but I'm sure they're very happy to get the medicare/caid money to keep 'dead' patients alive.

This country is so freaking immature and so freaking selfish, narcissistic really, most really don't believe they are going die at all. I am totally convinced of this. And we are like vampires, completely willing to suck the life force from the young if it gives us a little more time. This country is infantile on death, even worse than they are about sex. We're never going to get where you're going with this.

correct on all counts. We're never going to see rational thought in our health systems.

But, we're discussing this country's financial mess, with cuts looming. So grandma can't buy o.j., but we can spend billions on unnecessary meds, and dead patients that aren't allowed to die.

The fixes seem pretty simple to me

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Well now you expand the discussion even more.

I question why our parents (mine are gone) are cash cows for Big Pharma? Was is Granny taking all of those meds that she doesn't even need? Why are people on ventilators with no hope of recovery, required by law to be kept alive for years?

Address these two issues alone, and you've gone a long way to freeing up billions for delivering actual care to millions of people.

Granny doesn't need them? So you don't think Granny's improved quality of life is worth anything? People are not required by law to be kept alive for years. Those are choices.

The simple fact is our healthcare funding became complicated because of the gobblement. After WWII wage controls, businesses couldn't offer talented people more money for their work, so they offered to pay for their medical insurance. Until then, YOU bought your own medical insurance just like car insurance and just like homeowners insurance. It was very affordable and people who had it only wanted to cover catastrophic unplanned illnesses that could bankrupt a family. That is what insurance is truly for.

Then businesses started to expense it and got the federal gobblement to codify it into law. If you got medical insurance through an employer, it was a tax free benefit. If you paid for your own, no tax benefit for you.

A couple of unintended consequences came about as they always do. Medical insurance was now tethered to employment (not a good thing) and the actual user of healthcare began to lose sight of the actual costs of their care.

Then come along Medicare and costs get driven up by the gobblement even more. If the free market were allowed to prevail in healthcare the way it prevails with plastic surgery and lasik, you would have more innovation and costs would come down.

What is amazing is to hear libtards wring their hands over the costs of "keeping Granny alive" pretty much insinuating that Granny just needs to fucking die. But, whenever anyone talks about cutting Medicare, the same libtards scream "DO YOU WANT GRANNY TO DIE?" and run commercials of a certain VP candidate pushing Granny over a ledge.

 

[blackascoal]

I'd love to hear the reasoning on that one.

A party that just splintered in 2 before our very eyes, and managed to lose even more public support even though they conceded on just about everything...and they came out of it better?

Beg to differ on that one.

The reasoning is quite simple my friend.

First, democrats aren't all that popular either. The movement is to independents, not democrats or republicans.

Obama just made 98% of the Bush Tax Cuts permenant.

Obama Tells Progressives He Won't Budge On Bush Tax Cuts
NOVEMBER 13, 2012

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/obama-bush-tax-cuts_n_2124324.html

Fiscal Cliff Deal Chock Full of Corporate Pork
http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/p...-cliff-deal-chock-full-of-corporate-pork.html

Fiscal Cliff Deal Sneaks In Wall Street Gifts, NASCAR Perk
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/fiscal-cliff-wall-street_n_2397933.html

The Republican Party supposedly splintered in when Bill Clinton was elected and went into office with a big majority in Congress .. two years later they owned the House.

Then, the Republican Party supposedly splintered when Obama was elected .. who went into office with the same majority in Congress that Clinton had. Two year later the republicans owned the House again.

Republicans are chomping at the bit to start negotiations on entitlements .. and they know that Obama is going to cave on SS and Medicare .. just as he always caves.

2014 is not shaping up to be good for democrats.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think Preident O is serious about NOT allowing the debt ceiling to be used.

If you remember there was talk about how he could overirde the congress and take it from their hands as an emergency measure to protect the country from disastor.

I think that is what he will do now that he does not have to worry about relection

The fact that they keep raising it so that they can continue to vastly outspend revenue is what is leading this country into disaster. If he wanted to protect this country as you claim, he would lobby Congress hard to cut spending.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

I'd love to hear the reasoning on that one.

A party that just splintered in 2 before our very eyes, and managed to lose even more public support even though they conceded on just about everything...and they came out of it better?

Beg to differ on that one.

While your point is certainly valid... I would agree that the Reps actually came out ahead if you look at a comparison to what would have happened.

Had we gone over the 'fiscal cliff' all tax brackets would have increased and Defense would be staring down the barrel of $500B in cuts. Dems could easily have come back this month with a quick 'here is a tax cut for those making $250k or less'... what would the Reps have done? The Reps would then also have to justify trying to increase Defense spending again.

That said, in terms of public perception you are correct... the Reps lost. In terms of the numbers, they won (barely).