looking forward to obamacare?????

SmarterthanYou said:
it's the inevitable result when you give even the slightest power over to government. In this case, the state has the power to not only determine what medical care she needed, but when ordered to do differently by a judge, they simply ignored the judge. Obamacare is not any different, just a small step toward government regulated medical care.
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Ah, got it - so it has nothing to do with Obamacare.

Thanks.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I guess you're doomed.
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This incident has absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare. The more I read your posts about Obamacare, the more apparent it is that you don't have a clue what it does. You're at the base level of "The gubment is takin' over healthcare!", and you haven't moved beyond that, or bothered to look at the details.

No worries, though; I'm sure Damo will be along any minute to give you virtual high-5's and congratulate you on the beatdown you're giving me.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I guess you're doomed.
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We, the People ARE the government. That is the whole concept of what our founding fathers created. What you are unwittingly advocating is that private insurance cartels should have the power to determine what medical care We, the People should receive.

You are a retard.
 
Bfgrn said:
We, the People ARE the government.
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patently false. I know you're saintly democrats used that term, but it just isn't the case. If 'we the people' were truly the government, we wouldn't have written a constitution that limits them so sever

Bfgrn said:
That is the whole concept of what our founding fathers created. What you are unwittingly advocating is that private insurance cartels should have the power to determine what medical care We, the People should receive.
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how well did that public healthcare work out for Marie????

Bfgrn said:
You are a retard.
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then that must make you a total retard, since i'm so much more intelligent than you.
 
Thing1 said:
This incident has absolutely nothing to do with Obamacare. The more I read your posts about Obamacare, the more apparent it is that you don't have a clue what it does. You're at the base level of "The gubment is takin' over healthcare!", and you haven't moved beyond that, or bothered to look at the details.

No worries, though; I'm sure Damo will be along any minute to give you virtual high-5's and congratulate you on the beatdown you're giving me.
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and the more I read your posts, I have to wonder if you're one of the newly graduated liberal bots, because you seem to be using all the beginner talking points.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
patently false. I know you're saintly democrats used that term, but it just isn't the case. If 'we the people' were truly the government, we wouldn't have written a constitution that limits them so sever

how well did that public healthcare work out for Marie????

then that must make you a total retard, since i'm so much more intelligent than you.
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OK, dumberthanall, tell us the concept of government our founders intended?

And, how well did that private healthcare work out for Marie????
 
SmarterthanYou said:
read the framers statements, they'll tell you all you need to know. they were ALL very concerned about those elected individuals forgetting about who they were there to represent.

it was working out very well. can you show differently?
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OK...

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:48
 
oh goodie, a jefferson fan....


"Aware of the tendency of power to degenerate into abuse, the
worthies of our country have secured its independence by the
establishment of a Constitution and form of government for our
nation, calculated to prevent as well as to correct abuse."
--Thomas Jefferson to Washington Tammany Society, 1809.

"[The purpose of a written constitution is] to bind up the several
branches of government by certain laws, which, when they
transgress, their acts shall become nullities; to render
unnecessary an appeal to the people, or in other words a rebellion,
on every infraction of their rights, on the peril that their
acquiescence shall be construed into an intention to surrender
those rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia, 1782. Q.XIII

"I consider the foundation of the Constitution as laid on this
ground: That "all powers not delegated to the United States, by
the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are
reserved to the States or to the people." [10th Amendment]
To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specifically drawn
around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless
field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition." --Thomas
Jefferson: National Bank Opinion, 1791.

"The foundation on which all [our State constitutions] are built
is the natural equality of man, the denial of every pre-eminence
but that annexed to legal office and particularly the denial of a
pre-eminence by birth." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington,
1784.

"The principles of our Constitution are wisely opposed to all
perpetuations of power, and to every practice which may lead to
hereditary establishments." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Address,
1809.

"Though written constitutions may be violated in moments of
passion or delusion, yet they furnish a text to which those who
are watchful may again rally and recall the people. They fix,
too, for the people the principles of their political creed."
--Thomas Jefferson to Joseph Priestley, 1802.

"Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers,
its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas
Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

"It [is] inconsistent with the principles of civil liberty, and contrary
to the natural rights of the other members of the society, that any
body of men therein should have authority to enlarge their own
powers... without restraint." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Allowance
Bill, 1778.

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as
are injurious to others." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"Laws provide against injury from others, but not from
ourselves." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776?

"In questions of power...let no more be heard of confidence in
man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the
Constitution." --Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

"Confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism. Free
government is founded in jealousy, and not in confidence."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

"It is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited
constitutions, to bind down those whom we are obliged to trust
with power. Our Constitution has accordingly fixed the
limits to which, and no further, our confidence may go."
--Thomas Jefferson: Draft, Kentucky Resolutions, 1798.

"Is confidence or discretion, or is STRICT LIMIT, the principle
of our Constitution?" --Thomas Jefferson to Jedidiah Morse, 1822.

"Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people."
--Thomas Jefferson to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1816.

"The elective franchise, if guarded as the ark of our safety, will
peaceably dissipate all combinations to subvert a Constitution,
dictated by the wisdom, and resting on the will of the people."
--Thomas Jefferson to Benjamin Waring, 1801.

"Unless the mass retains sufficient control over those entrusted
with the powers of their government, these will be perverted to
their own oppression, and to the perpetuation of wealth and power
in the individuals and their families selected for the trust.
Whether our Constitution has hit on the exact degree of control
necessary, is yet under experiment." --Thomas Jefferson to M.
van der Kemp, 1812.

"I disapproved from the first moment... the want of a bill of
rights [in the new Constitution] to guard liberty against the
legislative as well as the executive branches of the government."
--Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"A bill of rights is what the people are entitled to against every
government on earth, general or particular; and what no just
government should refuse, or rest on inferences." --Thomas
Jefferson to James Madison, 1787.

"A bill of rights [will] guard liberty against the legislative as
well as the executive branches of the government." --Thomas
Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"In the arguments in favor of a declaration of rights, one which
has great weight with me [is] the legal check which it puts into
the hands of the judiciary." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison,
1789.

"By a declaration of rights, I mean one which shall stipulate
freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of commerce
against monopolies, trial by juries in all cases, no suspensions
of the habeas corpus, no standing armies. These are fetters
against doing evil which no honest government should decline."
--Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Donald, 1788.

"I sincerely wish we could see our government so secured as to
depend less on the character of the person in whose hands it is
trusted. Bad men will sometimes get in and with such an immense
patronage may make great progress in corrupting the public mind
and principles. This is a subject with which wisdom and
patriotism should be occupied." --Thomas Jefferson to Moses
Robinson, 1801.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
if you didn't read the article, she was better off being cared for by her mother. those 'for profit' companies and the state are the ones that killed her by transporting her against her mothers will and denying her the meds she needed to control her seizures.
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That's true. So you make the case for better oversight of the Fla. Medicaid system.

However, the transport was facilitated because the hospital was complaining about losing money.

But they were under significant pressure to get Marie out of Tampa General Hospital, where she was placed after child protection workers took her into state care. Records show the hospital complained bitterly that it was losing money on her care. A hospital social worker, records say, "was adamant about the child leaving the hospital today."
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That's what happens when republicans run the state. Imagine how much better it will be if the republican cuts to Medicaid ever went through?

Obamacare will do nothing but make situations like this impossible to happen. Clearly, Fla needs more fed oversight. Not less.
 
Althea said:
That's true. So you make the case for better oversight of the Fla. Medicaid system.

However, the transport was facilitated because the hospital was complaining about losing money.

That's what happens when republicans run the state. Imagine how much better it will be if the republican cuts to Medicaid ever went through?

Obamacare will do nothing but make situations like this impossible to happen. Clearly, Fla needs more fed oversight. Not less.
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so your entire solution on this is to give the state MORE power to do these things and provide MORE oversight AFTER people die??????
 
Althea said:
No. In this context, Rick Scott killed a disabled girl. Not every state is as anti American as Fla.
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you think that this state power came about ONLY because scott was governor???? ROFL

how does that explain the other cases that are similar around the entire country?
 
SmarterthanYou said:
you think that this state power came about ONLY because scott was governor???? ROFL

how does that explain the other cases that are similar around the entire country?
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Go ahead and link some cases. We can discuss them one by one. Guess how many will come from states with republican governors/legislatures?
 
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