The Deficit Did Not Cause The Recession, The Recession Caused The Deficit

signalmankenneth

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Both Wall Street and Washington have lost sight of the major cause of the deep recession and exceedingly slow economic recovery. To hear all the talk, the major concern is about the impending fiscal cliff and the federal budget deficit. Fix the fiscal cliff and make major reductions in the deficit, they say, and all will be ok. We think they've got it wrong.

As we've been writing about for a number of years, the major problem affecting the economy is the credit crisis of 2008, brought on by the preceding housing boom, explosion of household credit and the associated sleazy practices by the mortgage banking industry. Also culpable were the various enablers such as Alan Greenspan, overall Fed policy and the major credit rating agencies. When the boom collapsed, households were left with a severely depleted asset (their homes), record debt and low savings. Since that time consumers have been faced with the problem of paring down debt and increasing savings at a time of extremely limited increases in wages, a process that is still ongoing today. The result is the weak recovery that typically follows major credit crises.

The federal government deficit, far from being the cause of the lackluster economy, was actually a result of it. In 2007, the deficit was a manageable 1.7% of GDP. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast deficits of between 0.7% and 1.5% of GDP for the years 2008 through 2011 and surpluses for the seven following years through 2018. What threw this forecast off track was the deep recession, resulting in collapsing tax revenues, increased unemployment insurance and various stimulative spending programs that wouldn't have happened if not for the preceding housing and credit boom.

The concern over the deficit has now gotten mixed in with the fiscal cliff as the major problem holding back the economy. The fiscal cliff is an artificial problem manufactured in Washington during the debt limit negotiations in the summer of 2011 that caused the loss of the U.S. triple-A credit rating. The stock market is now responding to every statement by our political leaders on the status of the negotiations as both political parties jockey for position. It is perfectly natural, at the start, that both sides would attempt to sound conciliatory without being specific so that they could place blame on the other party should things go wrong.

While it is more likely than not that going over the fiscal cliff will be avoided in some way, it is far from a sure thing. To get to a deal Republican leaders will have to convince enough of their base to agree to a tax rate increase above a specified income level while Democrats will have to convince enough of their base to go along with cuts in entitlements. Since nobody wants to concede anything specific too early in the negotiations, the issue is likely to go down to the wire with extreme market moves in the meantime.

The real takeaway, however, is that the solution to the fiscal cliff problem involves some combination of tax increases and federal spending cuts. To the extent that at least some of it is front-loaded into 2013, which is likely, the result is a tightening in fiscal policy and a headwind to economic growth. While falling off the fiscal cliff amounts to extreme austerity, the probable solution also involves austerity, just less of it.

And since the deficit did not cause either the recession or the tepid recovery, a reduction in the deficit is not the cure. It does not solve the real problems facing the economy such as excessive household debt, continued tepid growth and falling earnings estimates in the U.S., the spreading recession in Europe, the economic slowdown in China and the other BRIC nations, the renewed recession in Japan and the slowdown in the commodity producer nations.

By Comstock Partners

Recession-is-Back.jpg
 
The Deficit Did Not Cause The Recession, The Recession Caused The Deficit


Interesting premise....totally bogus, totally unrelated, totally propaganda fiction....

The deficit was simply caused by overspending
----------------------------------------------
Recessions have been caused by lots of things...
this recession was caused by incompetence in the running of and negligence of oversight of Freddy Mac and Jenny Mae (Frank and Dodd)

but then....a recession can cause unemployment

in turn.... high unemployment causes fed. revenue to fall

and falling revenue can lead to deficit spending...which is easliy fixed by cutting spending.

what a rat race....:palm:
 
We had a deficit before the Recession. We haven't had a surplus since Eisenhower, despite the short-lived budget surplus of the late 90s. The deficit probably won't cause a recession anytime soon, but when it does balloon to a large enough level of national debt, and we can no longer afford to make interest payments, then there might be a minor recession in the works...
 
There is no point debating it. The economy and our national experiment will collapse. We will descend into a Balkanized country like the former USSR.

Anyone remember what brought down the USSR?

Anyone know how much $1 trillion really is?
 
We had a deficit before the Recession. We haven't had a surplus since Eisenhower, despite the short-lived budget surplus of the late 90s. The deficit probably won't cause a recession anytime soon, but when it does balloon to a large enough level of national debt, and we can no longer afford to make interest payments, then there might be a minor recession in the works...

Wrong.Clinton was the last president to have a surplus,which GWBush promptly turned into a 3 trillion dollar deficit funding his illegal wars.
 
Both Wall Street and Washington have lost sight of the major cause of the deep recession and exceedingly slow economic recovery. To hear all the talk, the major concern is about the impending fiscal cliff and the federal budget deficit. Fix the fiscal cliff and make major reductions in the deficit, they say, and all will be ok. We think they've got it wrong.

As we've been writing about for a number of years, the major problem affecting the economy is the credit crisis of 2008, brought on by the preceding housing boom, explosion of household credit and the associated sleazy practices by the mortgage banking industry. Also culpable were the various enablers such as Alan Greenspan, overall Fed policy and the major credit rating agencies. When the boom collapsed, households were left with a severely depleted asset (their homes), record debt and low savings. Since that time consumers have been faced with the problem of paring down debt and increasing savings at a time of extremely limited increases in wages, a process that is still ongoing today. The result is the weak recovery that typically follows major credit crises.

The federal government deficit, far from being the cause of the lackluster economy, was actually a result of it. In 2007, the deficit was a manageable 1.7% of GDP. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) forecast deficits of between 0.7% and 1.5% of GDP for the years 2008 through 2011 and surpluses for the seven following years through 2018. What threw this forecast off track was the deep recession, resulting in collapsing tax revenues, increased unemployment insurance and various stimulative spending programs that wouldn't have happened if not for the preceding housing and credit boom.

The concern over the deficit has now gotten mixed in with the fiscal cliff as the major problem holding back the economy. The fiscal cliff is an artificial problem manufactured in Washington during the debt limit negotiations in the summer of 2011 that caused the loss of the U.S. triple-A credit rating. The stock market is now responding to every statement by our political leaders on the status of the negotiations as both political parties jockey for position. It is perfectly natural, at the start, that both sides would attempt to sound conciliatory without being specific so that they could place blame on the other party should things go wrong.

While it is more likely than not that going over the fiscal cliff will be avoided in some way, it is far from a sure thing. To get to a deal Republican leaders will have to convince enough of their base to agree to a tax rate increase above a specified income level while Democrats will have to convince enough of their base to go along with cuts in entitlements. Since nobody wants to concede anything specific too early in the negotiations, the issue is likely to go down to the wire with extreme market moves in the meantime.

The real takeaway, however, is that the solution to the fiscal cliff problem involves some combination of tax increases and federal spending cuts. To the extent that at least some of it is front-loaded into 2013, which is likely, the result is a tightening in fiscal policy and a headwind to economic growth. While falling off the fiscal cliff amounts to extreme austerity, the probable solution also involves austerity, just less of it.

And since the deficit did not cause either the recession or the tepid recovery, a reduction in the deficit is not the cure. It does not solve the real problems facing the economy such as excessive household debt, continued tepid growth and falling earnings estimates in the U.S., the spreading recession in Europe, the economic slowdown in China and the other BRIC nations, the renewed recession in Japan and the slowdown in the commodity producer nations.

By Comstock Partners

Recession-is-Back.jpg

social security and medicare are not entitlement programs, they are paid insurance programs that congress continues to mess with

as for the recession/deficit problem, lower tax revenues due to underemployment and unemployment as a result of the banks manipulation of the housing market and ensuing crash

while neither political party can be seen to allow the us going over the 'fiscal cliff', the reps have more to lose than the dems which gives the dems more leverage, but not a lot

however, the reps have to be careful of the 2014 election - their 'base' is opposed to tax increases and are poised to take revenge on any reps that authorize a tax increase, however, a raise in taxes on the top 2% is popular among a large portion of the voters including the rep base if not their major source of funding

however, both the reps and dems have a vested interest in not allowing the $500 billion cut in defense spending

while there needs to be some spending cuts, cuts to the 'safety net' would be hardest on the poor and working poor and cuts on defense spending are also needed, but not too many as they will impact too many of the middle class

while obama's proposed $50 billion 'stimulus' package for infrastructure is a step in the right direction, it is too little, we need a major increase in spending on infrastructure

while some decry increases in the deficit and say that it imposes too great a burden on our children and grandchildren, so has the irresponsible deferment of infrastructure development, expansion and maintenance which benefited taxpayers of the baby boom generation and of course the top 2%

we have dug a wide and deep hole for ourselves and and are going to have to make sacrifices to fill it in
 
This "physical cliff" rhetoric is mostly a diversionary tactic to keep our minds off of what is really causing the contiuning functional recession.

Be eager partisan tools!
 
then why is it the right HATES IKE?


He is the one who warned us about the military industrial complex.


People in the right hate his fucking guts
 
Amazing how thwe republican controlled congress quickly got rid of Paygo after Bush was elected.

Not really. Their entire MO is to ballon up the deficit during GOP administrations so that when a Dem gets elected, they have no choice but to pay down the deficit, rather than pursue progressive goals. It has been working well for them since Raygun.
 
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then why is it the right HATES IKE?


He is the one who warned us about the military industrial complex.


People in the right hate his fucking guts

Most people alive today don't know anything about Eisenhower. They were either born way after he left office, or they were too young to care. But suffice it to say, you'd hate Eisenhower just as much as you hate any Republican if he were President today, because you hate all Republicans.
 
Not really. Their entire MO is to ballon up the deficit during GOP administrations you that when a Dem gets elected, they have no choice but to pay down the deficit, rather than pursue progressive goals. It has been working well for them since Raygun.

1) you don't pay down the deficit, you pay down DEBT
2) you reduce deficit spending
3) Clinton raised the nations debt by $1.6 Trillion, the same amount as Reagan. Though if adjusted for inflation it would be slightly less.
4) It was only with a Rep Congress and a revenue boom from the tech/internet bubble that allowed Clinton to come close to a balanced budget and nearly an actual surplus.
 
More accurately, the Bush tax cuts, a mild recession, two wars and increased spending caused the initial deficits. The recession caused the $1T+ deficits. And increased spending and more tax cuts caused ongoing deficits.
 
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