Honest Question: If Obama is re-elected, where does Republican Party go from there?

[blackascoal]

While the GOP is on the ropes and needs to take seriously the need to drop dead weight, they can rebound. The label might not survive but conservatives can coalaesce if they ditch their racists

I don't agree that Democrats have no identity problem. Many of the union types are uneasy with minorities and vice versa. The unionist support for trade wars and general xenophobia creates an uneasy alliance. African Americans are more supportive of school vouchers and are wary of the police. The minorities are also uneasy with homosexuals as many of them come from less liberal (it is amazing how few people here understand the word) cultures. Then there is the fact that blacks, Hispanics and other minorities don't identify with each other.

Also, many regulations are designed to maintain the status quo. Minority entrepreneurs can become attracted to free market principles easily after having had to suffer the burden of government agencies that block food trucks and other permits. Libertarianism, properly understood, has plenty to offer minorities. But those who identify as libertarian need to quit focusing solely on government programs that benefit the poor and start spending more of their ammunition combating corporate welfare and barriers to market entry that are killing our economy.

Then there is the fact that our top heavy Ponzi scheme of a retirement system benefits whites over minorities. When this ticking time bomb explodes it will hurt the Democrats. If their reforms are based solely on increasing the age of retirement it could further alienate minorities. Look at what wing of the GOP is rushing in to defend SS/Medicare.

The conservatives (not the GOP) are going to have to dump their racists. One way or the other it will destroy them. But once they do they may be able to capture minorities. I can't see how they will be able to under the GOP label for some time though.

Race is becoming less significant and that will continue to decline. What is Obama, black or white? I am sure he identifies as black but that is largely due to the culture he was raised under. More and more mixed race children will are not being be forced out of their white identity by a pervasive culture of racism. That does not mean they reject their non-white culture, but it will not move them. I have a relative that is 1/4 Puerto Rican. He has half-brothers that are a 1/4 white. They are his brothers and he is theirs. I love going to see them. They all consider me family.

Race labels as a dividing line will fade. The conservatives do need to move away from their hatemongers, trade warriors and Santorum. But that is not an impossible task.

http://prospect.org/article/democrats-demographic-dreams

I was with you while reading most of your well thought-out post. But your perpectives of race and how it plays out in society are a bit confusing.

Obama is not black because he chooses to be black or because he grew up in black culture. He's black because that's what he is. How could he have possibly walked through life pretending to be white? I'm sorry, but that reminds me of Dave Chapelle's blind klansman.

That does not deny that part of his heritage is white, rather, it simply acknowledges the obvious. If he didn't tell you or you weren't told that his mother was white he would look just like millions of other black men whose parents are black. That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black.

That has nothing to do with race preference, it has everything to do with race realities. No one is "forced" out of being white. Being white is not their reality.

What does this mean?

"That does not mean they reject their non-white culture, but it will not move them."

Obama is President of the United States and he did not get there pretending to be white. He was "moved" being black .. as are many other successful black people.

The problem is not one of identity.

 

[Lowaicue]

That does not deny that part of his heritage is white, rather, it simply acknowledges the obvious. If he didn't tell you or you weren't told that his mother was white he would look just like millions of other black men whose parents are black. That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black.

This is an area with which I am not familiar, but I wonder how much of what you say above is concerned with social conditioning. In America 'black' has been and still is seen as a negative term. American white people talk of themselves and black people. Don't hear too much reference to 'yellow' people or 'brown' people. In the UK, I think, 'brown' carries more negativity than black. Transcending skin colour though, is voice and accent. If a man is white, yellow, black or brown, but speaks well then there is almost no negativity attached and any there is is not about his colour but about his perceived class.
Naturally it has not always been that way and there are racist groups, but by and large I think it is like that.

 

[Lowaicue]

I will stand by my principles. Feel free to change yours. If supporting illegal immigration and a welfare state is the path to victory, then I would prefer defeat. Illegal immigration combined with a welfare state is a recipe for disaster.

Like I said, I used to really care about it. But now I don't because I have ordered my affairs to survive the coming economic collapse. Now, I can just sit back and watch you proles argue over who is going going to be the captain of the titanic.

Would you like to show me where I mentioned illegalmigration or a welfare state? The rest of your post is of no consequence to me as a non yank.

 

[canceled.2021.1]

Would you like to show me where I mentioned illegalmigration or a welfare state? The rest of your post is of no consequence to me as a non yank.

You didn't have to mention it directly. It is implied in the whole "hispanics are on the rise and the GOP are going to lose them as long as they oppose illegal immigration".

If it is of no consequence to you then why are you focusing on the US. I get that the UK has already committed national suicide.

 

[blackascoal]

I think that it's funny how so many of the righties, and pretend Johnson-voters (they know who they are, the ones who are on here day after day defending Republicans but claim they are voting for Johnson, hahahaha yeah sure) always rush to post how much they admire BAC for not voting for Obama. This is not about BAC whom I adore and admire greatly, for different reasons than the righties do I'm sure.

It's just a point I want to make. I am voting for Obama and I am voting Dem across the ballot. And I am not ashamed nor do I think that I need to bow my head before my moral superiors (the alleged Johnson voters lol). I am voting Dem across the ballot because of women's issues. Because there IS a war on women. Because men by and large don't give a shit about it. Certainly Republican and "Libertarian" men don't give a shit about it. Because sexism is alive and well and certainly you can see that on this board, where it is actually celebrated.

Because I do not want my niece to need a coat hanger, to be policed by misogynist monsters when she goes out in a few years under the impression she can wear what the fuck she wants to wear, drink, and dance, just as if she were a man, and not be raped as a punishment for daring to be free, to not have access to birth control, to have some pimple-faced, lemon-sucking, bitter bastard looking to get back at all the bitches who said no to him by humiliating her and refusing to fill her prescription, to be called a cunt, a bitch, a whore, to not have a life filled with every single possibility and opportunity open to men.

And though the Dems are not perfect on women's issues (I pressure them all the time to go on the offensive against Hyde for one example), it is an issue that they are ions ahead of Republicans on. This doesn't mean I don't advocate from within for better policy on other issues. One way I do that is by donating my dollars to the more progressive candidates in primaries and general elections. But I vote Democratic. And I am morally inferior to none of the fuckwits around here. Thank you.

Much respect for you sister. I appreciate that you allow me the freedom of my thoughts without it intruding on our mutual respect.

Without any attempt to step on anything you've said here, I just want you to know that I too think seriously about women's issues .. I have daughters. I take a long look at the things I believe and say to ensure that they not only support and protect my daughters, but all the daughters and mothers everywhere. I'm a socialist .. I think about everybody.

In thinking about everybody, the most critical issue for me is war and the horrors that they bring. Not just because one of my daughters is in the military, but because the evil of war touches everybody. Why are SS, Medicare, and everyother saftey net in America threatened? Because we've spent the money on for-profit wars and an exploding and outrageous military budget.

I'm not voting for Obama because I can't. My conscience won't allow that. I'm working to build an alternative for the left, and a political party that stands for what we believe.

I think we both have the same respect for women and their issues. Hopefully our working to achieve the same goals from different angles will find us arriving at the same goals and successes at the same time.

 

[Lowaicue]

You didn't have to mention it directly. It is implied in the whole "hispanics are on the rise and the GOP are going to lose them as long as they oppose illegal immigration".

If it is of no consequence to you then why are you focusing on the US. I get that the UK has already committed national suicide.

Trying to save you from the same fate. People like you certainly are not helping anyone.

BTW I never mentioned Hispanics either. Indeed I do not really know what is meant by the term. Do you mean Mexicans? South Americans? Spaniards?

You are looking at my words but reading only what you wish to see. But then I have noticed that of you before.

I don't understand why otherwise intelligent people would orchestrate four years of hatred for a president. There seem to be no well thought out opposing policies, no manifestos, no serious political discussion just the smart arse sound bytes that you are fed in order to hate the black man.
Quite horrible and to even pretend to be rational is an insult to the language.

 

[blackascoal]

This is an area with which I am not familiar, but I wonder how much of what you say above is concerned with social conditioning. In America 'black' has been and still is seen as a negative term. American white people talk of themselves and black people. Don't hear too much reference to 'yellow' people or 'brown' people. In the UK, I think, 'brown' carries more negativity than black. Transcending skin colour though, is voice and accent. If a man is white, yellow, black or brown, but speaks well then there is almost no negativity attached and any there is is not about his colour but about his perceived class.
Naturally it has not always been that way and there are racist groups, but by and large I think it is like that.

I've always been intrigued by race relations in the UK. It's quite different than here in the US.

Social conditioning does indeed play a huge role in perceptions and acceptable roles. I found Seattle, Wa. to be an amazing racial environment. There is a mix of everybody there, including a healthy American Indian population. But one of the biggest reasons why Seattle is so unique is the influx of Canadians who've moved there. Canadians don't come with the same racial phobias that Americans have. I grew up in Detroit and a trip across the river into Canada was an early awakening to the difference in environment.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I was with you while reading most of your well thought-out post. But your perpectives of race and how it plays out in society are a bit confusing.

Obama is not black because he chooses to be black or because he grew up in black culture. He's black because that's what he is. How could he have possibly walked through life pretending to be white? I'm sorry, but that reminds me of Dave Chapelle's blind klansman.

That does not deny that part of his heritage is white, rather, it simply acknowledges the obvious. If he didn't tell you or you weren't told that his mother was white he would look just like millions of other black men whose parents are black. That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black.

That has nothing to do with race preference, it has everything to do with race realities. No one is "forced" out of being white. Being white is not their reality.

What does this mean?

"That does not mean they reject their non-white culture, but it will not move them."

Obama is President of the United States and he did not get there pretending to be white. He was "moved" being black .. as are many other successful black people.

The problem is not one of identity.

"That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black."


You may want to revisit this comment. It shows a very poor understanding of how dominant and recesive alleles are expressed.

 

[NOVA]

I've always been intrigued by race relations in the UK. It's quite different than here in the US.

Social conditioning does indeed play a huge role in perceptions and acceptable roles. I found Seattle, Wa. to be an amazing racial environment. There is a mix of everybody there, including a healthy American Indian population. But one of the biggest reasons why Seattle is so unique is the influx of Canadians who've moved there. Canadians don't come with the same racial phobias that Americans have. I grew up in Detroit and a trip across the river into Canada was an early awakening to the difference in environment.

Do the Canadians have to endure the gang warfare on the streets and in their schools, practically daily drive-by killings, flash mob rioting and looting of stores and the level of drug use and trafficking in their cities and towns ? Its not just perception in the US, its reality....its not imaginary chaos, its reality, its not simple animosity to some race, its the reality of the danger on our streets......I think you know it as well as I.....

This unexpected and quite poignant remark by Jesse Jackson speaks wonders....

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

 

[NOVA]

Are there no racist right wing newspapers or broadcasters? Has the Fox changed its spots?

You pinheads just parrot the lies over and over......sad you won't educate yourselves to reality....

 

[blackascoal]

"That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black."


You may want to revisit this comment. It shows a very poor understanding of how dominant and recesive alleles are expressed.

No, I think I have a fairly good understanding of how genes work.

I respect your thoughts a lot brother, and I'd welcome your perspectives of how they work .. arriving at the same undeniable conclusion that such pairings almost always produces children that are more identifiably black.

I have one of those of my own.

 

[Phantasmal]

You pinheads just parrot the lies over and over......sad you won't educate yourselves to reality....

And we should do this watching the sources you parrot? You sound like Bill OReilly's mini me, even using his pinhead expression.

 

[christiefan915]

You, as a married man get that tax break, you also expect he government to "fund it"! Why should gays not have the same rights as you? Why shouldn't they get the same tax breaks? When the Bush tax cuts expire, the marriage penalty will be back, I bet gays will still want to marry, tax break or not.

You wish for some people to be second class citizens and that isn't moral.

Isn't he a hoot? He gets the married tax break but wants to deny it to gays, he got almost 40 years of union benefits but wants to deny today's workers. Wonder what other perks and benefits he's hiding in his background and wants to deny others?

 

[Phantasmal]

I have not read the entire thread but This is what I think.
Republicans are people. Some people are stupid, some republicans are stupid. Some people are sensible and the same can be said for republicans. So, at some point, they must sit round a table and examine where they have gone wrong. The answer to that is clear and can be taken right back to that ridiculous woman in Alaska. Not actually her but the non thinking, gung ho, brainless morons who chose her as their figurehead.
To recover the party must not simply split from these idiots, it must put so much distance between them and it that not even Curiosity could make the journey.
Then they have to accept that the running of a four year hate campaign was, and was bound to be because that sort of thing always is, self defeating. They must develop policies. They must examine the work of the Democrats and make sure that when they think the democrats have made a mistake they don't just cat-call and whistle, they put forward their own ideas with evidence to show why their ideas would be more successful.
They must grow up. They must become politicians, in it for the people and not for personal fame and fortune.

Phew! I thought for a moment when you said, ridiculous Oman in Alaska, you were talking about me.

 

[christiefan915]

Trying to save you from the same fate. People like you certainly are not helping anyone.

BTW I never mentioned Hispanics either. Indeed I do not really know what is meant by the term. Do you mean Mexicans? South Americans? Spaniards?

You are looking at my words but reading only what you wish to see. But then I have noticed that of you before.

I don't understand why otherwise intelligent people would orchestrate four years of hatred for a president. There seem to be no well thought out opposing policies, no manifestos, no serious political discussion just the smart arse sound bytes that you are fed in order to hate the black man.
Quite horrible and to even pretend to be rational is an insult to the language.

That's it in a nut shell.

 

[Timshel]

I was with you while reading most of your well thought-out post. But your perpectives of race and how it plays out in society are a bit confusing.
Obama is not black because he chooses to be black or because he grew up in black culture. He's black because that's what he is. How could he have possibly walked through life pretending to be white? I'm sorry, but that reminds me of Dave Chapelle's blind klansman.
That does not deny that part of his heritage is white, rather, it simply acknowledges the obvious. If he didn't tell you or you weren't told that his mother was white he would look just like millions of other black men whose parents are black. That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black.
That has nothing to do with race preference, it has everything to do with race realities. No one is "forced" out of being white. Being white is not their reality.
What does this mean?
"That does not mean they reject their non-white culture, but it will not move them."
Obama is President of the United States and he did not get there pretending to be white. He was "moved" being black .. as are many other successful black people
The problem is not one of identity.

He's black because he grew up in a pervasive culture of racism. He was pushed to being black in the same way Tiger Woods was/is. Mixed race children are on the rise. They were ONCE pushed out of their white identity by racist grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and the culture. That is not as true anymore, no matter what racist trolls (not you) may claim.

No ones said he would have pretended to be white. He would not have been made to reject or feel pained by his white heritage if not for racists.

It is much like Bill Maher. He once identified as Libertarian, but then in a monologue not long ago he rejected the label because many of the faux-libertarians and real life trolls rejected him. The same is true with Eastwood. I have been doing the same in pushing away those who misuse the label for their fascists dreams of white supremacy.

Honestly, Barrack looks like the product of a mixed race couple. So does Tiger. As more and more children are born to interracial couples people will stop assuming that this or that person is all one or the other.

Also, the scientific facts that you mention are coming to light. Someday soon the lying idiots that deny reality will be drowned out and we will all be African Americans. The human genome project has proven it conclusively.

Only the blind klansmen fail to see it now. Chapelle is much funnier and deeper than you believe.

Here they come. Join me in pointing and laughing at these ridiculous clowns.

 

[NOVA]

And we should do this watching the sources you parrot? You sound like Bill OReilly's mini me, even using his pinhead expression.

Only because it so very aptly fits....they're not #1 for nothing....and MSNBC is going down the tubes as a news source

 

[Phantasmal]

Only because it so very aptly fits....they're not #1 for nothing....and MSNBC is going down the tubes as a news source

They are #1 because there are a lot of crackers like you that take their news as "gospel". They sued in court to have the right to lie on TV and you swallowed the hook.

 

[Timshel]

"That happens because even his mother carried African genes .. as do all humans. Thus the children of black/white parings are usually more identifiably black."


You may want to revisit this comment. It shows a very poor understanding of how dominant and recesive alleles are expressed.

Yeah, I never understood that clearly, but enough to know the popular myths are just that.

 

[NOVA]

Isn't he a hoot? He gets the married tax break but wants to deny it to gays, he got almost 40 years of union benefits but wants to deny today's workers. Wonder what other perks and benefits he's hiding in his background and wants to deny others?

There is nothing stopping homos from getting married.....the law is the same for everyone....Hetrosexual men can't marry other men either....
There are no special laws that apply only to one group and not the other.

Every worker in the work forces of private industry can join or organize a union....I can't and don't deny them that freedom, so stop the fuckin' lying about what you think I believe.

NO worker in a government agency or working for government should be unionized....any grievances they might have about working for the government can be
brought to the appropriate government agency that deals with civil serviced employment ...
Civil service and working as a civil servant is not mandatory....you want union, there is always private industry.