Al Franken

Damocles said:
Wow, mandating spending is a line right out of Atlas Shrugged, the looters tell them you "must" do this and then when asked "how" say, "That's up to you, you're the doer, the maker..." and when the businesses failed they blame the business.

They are mandated to fill out certain forms, then you mandate that they don't do what is necessary to fill them out...
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Excellent strawman Damo! :)

The problem is, your factually wrong. There's a mountain of data and the structural organizaton to get this done that's being used by the rest of the industrialized world and has been for over 30 years. The truth is, you can't deal being told, no free ride pal!

Maybe you need to re-read atlas shrugged cause you have it ass backwards as to whom the moochers are.
 
evince said:
Ayn Rand was a mess as a human being.

Pretending she was some great prophet makes you people look realy silly
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That's not true at all. She provides the most damning analysis on the failure of communisim as a socio-economic system I've ever read. Rand's problem is that she attempted to develop a philsophy around a concept in which she was pretty much a neophyte. The problem with Rand's philosophy of "objectivism" is that it's not objective. Here disregard for ultruism and collaboration are two examples. The same can be said about her completely contradictory view about religion.

The problem I have with Rand and objectivism is she has a neophytes lack of discipline in regards to objectivity. When it comes to objectivity she's a joke compared to a true master in their field like a Richard Feyneman for example.
 
thesuperego said:
We have to cut back on welfare and warfare. A small tax increase is fine and may be optimal. We have to do something about our debt levels or this nation will splinter. We are not Europe. Europe is already fractured and have been at each others throats for some time. They have been moving towards centralization of the geographic and cultural divides but they see now that that is problematic. We have been moving in the other direction. If our debt becomes too high our union will not last and it will be messy.
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You are talking children and the elderly, which would you cut first?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Excellent strawman Damo! :)

The problem is, your factually wrong. There's a mountain of data and the structural organizaton to get this done that's being used by the rest of the industrialized world and has been for over 30 years. The truth is, you can't deal being told, no free ride pal!

Maybe you need to re-read atlas shrugged cause you have it ass backwards as to whom the moochers are.
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Says the guy who hasn't read it recently. No, I'm right about the moochers, this is a looter though not a moocher. You've even got the terms mixed up. Moochers were businesses or people who believed the producers owed them something, the looters were those who passed regulations telling them how they must run their business that were often contradictory to other regulations about how they must run their business.
 
Damocles said:
Says the guy who hasn't read it recently. No, I'm right about the moochers, this is a looter though not a moocher. You've even got the terms mixed up. Moochers were businesses or people who believed the producers owed them something, the looters were those who passed regulations telling them how they must run their business that were often contradictory to other regulations about how they must run their business.
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There you go with a complete lack of objectivity. Laws and regulations exist because too many people and businesses do not behave responsibly. They dump their toxic wastes into our air/water/land, they exploit people, they coerce people to work in substandard and unsafe conditions, they rig the game to give them unfair advantages, they sell products that are unsafe and dangerous, they lie to people and cheat them out of their money and they steal or take advantage of the less fortunate. Laws and regulations exist cause too many people and businesses have an irresponsible disregard and/or contempt for their duties and responsibilites as a citizen. Hell most of the looters and moochers Rand talked about are the captains of Wall Street and K Street your trying to protect. It's simply not rational or obejctive Damo and it's not in my best interest.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's not true at all. She provides the most damning analysis on the failure of communisim as a socio-economic system I've ever read. Rand's problem is that she attempted to develop a philsophy around a concept in which she was pretty much a neophyte. The problem with Rand's philosophy of "objectivism" is that it's not objective. Here disregard for ultruism and collaboration are two examples. The same can be said about her completely contradictory view about religion.

The problem I have with Rand and objectivism is she has a neophytes lack of discipline in regards to objectivity. When it comes to objectivity she's a joke compared to a true master in their field like a Richard Feyneman for example.
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Well, it may have been, but I had to keep waking myself up while reading the book!
 
Rana said:
Well, it may have been, but I had to keep waking myself up while reading the book!
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LOL Yea I did too. It's an awful novel. The Fountainhead was a far better read but I think she felt there was a lot of minutae she had to clarify. I think I could have written Galts speech in two to three pages. I think it went on interminably for 40. I attribute that to her Russian heritage. They do tend to beat a point to death in Russian literature.
 
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