USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

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USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — With stunning swiftness, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Thursday night it will strip Lance Armstrong of his unprecedented seven Tour de France titles after he dropped his fight against drug charges that threatened his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists of all time.

..

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999," he said. "The toll this has taken on my family and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/usada-strip-lance-armstrong-7-tour-titles-031949504--spt.html

i don't really blame him. the guy has had how many trials, how many drug tests and every single one he was found innocent. this is nothing but a witch hunt....note also the US lost their criminal case. i thought this comment after the article was poignant:

Nothing like being sent to trial over and over again till they get the verdict they want.
 
USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — With stunning swiftness, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Thursday night it will strip Lance Armstrong of his unprecedented seven Tour de France titles after he dropped his fight against drug charges that threatened his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists of all time.

..

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999," he said. "The toll this has taken on my family and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/usada-strip-lance-armstrong-7-tour-titles-031949504--spt.html

i don't really blame him. the guy has had how many trials, how many drug tests and every single one he was found innocent. this is nothing but a witch hunt....note also the US lost their criminal case. i thought this comment after the article was poignant:

Nothing like being sent to trial over and over again till they get the verdict they want.

How can they take away his titles, he has never failed a fucking test for God's sake. What a bunch of clowns!
 
USADA to strip Lance Armstrong of 7 Tour titles

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — With stunning swiftness, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Thursday night it will strip Lance Armstrong of his unprecedented seven Tour de France titles after he dropped his fight against drug charges that threatened his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists of all time.

..

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999," he said. "The toll this has taken on my family and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/usada-strip-lance-armstrong-7-tour-titles-031949504--spt.html

i don't really blame him. the guy has had how many trials, how many drug tests and every single one he was found innocent. this is nothing but a witch hunt....note also the US lost their criminal case. i thought this comment after the article was poignant:

Nothing like being sent to trial over and over again till they get the verdict they want.
The problem is, is that the drug test Lance took were predominantly for PED's such as anabolic steroids, hgh, amphetamines, diuretics which were easily detected during his years in competition by immunoassay, HPLC and GC/MS. There was no reliable test for blood boosting drugs such as EPO or ways to detect illegal methods such as blood packing (except sit a rider down with a high hematocrit.).

Also in years past it was pretty much up to coaches, trainers and athletes as to what PED's they used, when they used them and dosing. With the arrival of EPO that had tragic consequences. There was a rash of cyclist, particularly in Belgium where drug laws were more lax, that died from using EPO. This lead to competative cyclist finding corrupt physicians who had the expertise to not only systematically apply all these groups of drugs resulting in substantial improvement in their preformances with little chance of detection. Particularly for blood boosting drugs and methods like blood packing. Those were the two main methods of performance enhancement for endurance athletes which were, at that time, virtually undetectable. Done right an athlete could see remarkable improvements in short spans of time. Done wrong and it could result in their death.

So from the mid 90 through the late 2000's you had a systemic culture of doping in cycling. As Lemond et el pointed out, you had athletes with VO2 Max in the 70's making climbs while sustaing power outputs of 600 watts. Which is physically/physiologically impossible. This became a very reliable indicator of just how systemic doping was across the peloton and how poor the methods were for detetcing blood boosting methods of performance enhancement.

Then things changed. The UCI started creating genetic/biological profiles for their licensed athletes. They also invested in developing a reliable method for detecting blood bosting drugs like EPO. Very quickly most of the top rated cyclist were busted including virtually every major domestiques on both Armstrongs US Postal and Discovery Channel teams. Some admited to doping after they retired.

So that boils down to what is the evidence against Armstrong. It's virtually all circumstantial but it is compelling. There's records of performance of Armstrong exceeding his biological profile (Armstrong's VO2 Max is in the high 70's to low 80's). There was his association as a patient with Michelle Ferrar, a corrupt doctor who supplied banned substances, including EPO, and provided blood doping services for elite athletes (which was virtually his sole practice). Then there's the very, very large number of Armstrongs associates who have also been busted for doping, who have given reliable, consistent and verifiable testimony of systemic PED use on Armstrongs team. They have also testified that Armstrong used PEDs.

So this all builds up to some very compelling circumstantial evidence that Armstrong did use PEDs. That's the problem though, it's circumstantial evidence. Having said that, had their been more or any reliable physical evidence that Armstrong had used PED's he'd be in far worse trouble than answering to WADA. He'd be facing criminal charges and the only reason he's currently not facing criminal charges is that the federal invistigators could only find circumstantial evidence. Probably the best shot they had at proving Armstrong was using PED's would have been obtaining Dr. Ferrar's medical records. Dr. Ferrar's office was raided but many of his records had been destroyed. Which is why Dr. Ferrar is now internationally banned as a sports physician.

So that leaves WADA, which is a professional association and not a legal or criminal court with it's case against Armstrong. Twice now Armstrong has sued WADA in Federal court claiming his due process rights were being violated. Both times federal courts have rejected Armstrongs case. Armstrong subsequently refused arbitration with WADA and so now they have stripped him.

What's my sentiment about this? I think the evidence is compelling that Armstrong used PED's. I think the evidence is equally compelling that virtually all of his major competitors were too. Pantani did. Ulrich did and so did most of his other major competitors. So if all of Armstrongs major rivals and their team mates and most of the peloton was systematicall doping does that justify Armstrongs alleged use of PEDs? Hell no.

Armstrong is retired now and WADA has no criminal or civil authority over him. He's free to thumb his nose at them. All WADA can do is revoke his wins (but can't take his winnings or earnings) for the record and suspend his license. Certainly a stain on his reputation but other than that, big deal. Armstrong damned well may walk away a serial cheater not that I really care.

What I care about is what this will do for the sport of cycling. I'm fairly sure given UCI's respons to WADA's allegations that their is substance to the charge that UCI did cover up doping allegations on Armstrong. That's understandable. Armstrong did for professional cycling what Michael Jordon did for the NBA. Having it known that their biggest star was a cheat would have be a serious blow to the UCI and professional cycling. Remember, cycling was going through a major doping crises in the late 90's when Aermstrong came back from his struggles with cancer and literally saved the sport and brought international attention and expenential growth and profits to the sport.

In the long run what this says is that if you're going to ride bikes competitively, don't cheat. The evidence is all ready comming in that the aggressive persuit of cheats, new drug testing methods and the biological profiling of licensed athletes has had a major impact. This year on the major climbs of the TdF most of the major competitors were only producing around 350 to 400 watts on major climbs. This is in line with normal physiological capacity and indicates to me that the measures for detecting cheats in the sport of cycling are working and that's what counts.
 
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just more examples of trying to tear down achievement that finds its roots in liberalism.

who can be really surprised? that is what society has turned into, let's tear down the successful instead of applaud it. all you need are accusations, not proof ala the OWEblahblah campaign
 
just more examples of trying to tear down achievement that finds its roots in liberalism.

who can be really surprised? that is what society has turned into, let's tear down the successful instead of applaud it. all you need are accusations, not proof ala the OWEblahblah campaign

Oh please. This is not about liberalism v. conservatism. After reading Mott's post, it is about whether or not someone cheats.
 
just more examples of trying to tear down achievement that finds its roots in liberalism.

who can be really surprised? that is what society has turned into, let's tear down the successful instead of applaud it. all you need are accusations, not proof ala the OWEblahblah campaign
Translation from wing nut "Blah, blah, blah, I'm to stupid to articulate an intelligent response on the topic so I'll just demonize liberal."
 
What's interesting to me is what will they do if they strip Armstrong of his 7 TdF titles? Most of the cyclist who finished second to Lance have been suspended for doping. Only Kloden and Beloki have not been suspended for doping but both have been implicated in participating in illicit blood packing programs. Beloki has been cleared of wrong doing but Kloden has not.
 
Well, if you say so ;)

My post was pretty clear. There is a noted trend toward tearing down those who have achieved success. Let me see, from a political perspective who does that? Oh yeah, liberals. I notice that you didn't disagree so I humbly accept your concession. You just like my posting a political comment on god forbid a political forum

:rofl2:
 
My post was pretty clear. There is a noted trend toward tearing down those who have achieved success. Let me see, from a political perspective who does that? Oh yeah, liberals. I notice that you didn't disagree so I humbly accept your concession. You just like my posting a political comment on god forbid a political forum

:rofl2:
Ah yes...and what success have you achieved?
 
The problem is, is that the drug test Lance took were predominantly for PED's such as anabolic steroids, hgh, amphetamines, diuretics which were easily detected during his years in competition by immunoassay, HPLC and GC/MS. There was no reliable test for blood boosting drugs such as EPO or ways to detect illegal methods such as blood packing (except sit a rider down with a high hematocrit.).

Also in years past it was pretty much up to coaches, trainers and athletes as to what PED's they used, when they used them and dosing. With the arrival of EPO that had tragic consequences. There was a rash of cyclist, particularly in Belgium where drug laws were more lax, that died from using EPO. This lead to competative cyclist finding corrupt physicians who had the expertise to not only systematically apply all these groups of drugs resulting in substantial improvement in their preformances with little chance of detection. Particularly for blood boosting drugs and methods like blood packing. Those were the two main methods of performance enhancement for endurance athletes which were, at that time, virtually undetectable. Done right an athlete could see remarkable improvements in short spans of time. Done wrong and it could result in their death.

So from the mid 90 through the late 2000's you had a systemic culture of doping in cycling. As Lemond et el pointed out, you had athletes with VO2 Max in the 70's making climbs while sustaing power outputs of 600 watts. Which is physically/physiologically impossible. This became a very reliable indicator of just how systemic doping was across the peloton and how poor the methods were for detetcing blood boosting methods of performance enhancement.

Then things changed. The UCI started creating genetic/biological profiles for their licensed athletes. They also invested in developing a reliable method for detecting blood bosting drugs like EPO. Very quickly most of the top rated cyclist were busted including virtually every major domestiques on both Armstrongs US Postal and Discovery Channel teams. Some admited to doping after they retired.

So that boils down to what is the evidence against Armstrong. It's virtually all circumstantial but it is compelling. There's records of performance of Armstrong exceeding his biological profile (Armstrong's VO2 Max is in the high 70's to low 80's). There was his association as a patient with Michelle Ferrar, a corrupt doctor who supplied banned substances, including EPO, and provided blood doping services for elite athletes (which was virtually his sole practice). Then there's the very, very large number of Armstrongs associates who have also been busted for doping, who have given reliable, consistent and verifiable testimony of systemic PED use on Armstrongs team. They have also testified that Armstrong used PEDs.

So this all builds up to some very compelling circumstantial evidence that Armstrong did use PEDs. That's the problem though, it's circumstantial evidence. Having said that, had their been more or any reliable physical evidence that Armstrong had used PED's he'd be in far worse trouble than answering to WADA. He'd be facing criminal charges and the only reason he's currently not facing criminal charges is that the federal invistigators could only find circumstantial evidence. Probably the best shot they had at proving Armstrong was using PED's would have been obtaining Dr. Ferrar's medical records. Dr. Ferrar's office was raided but many of his records had been destroyed. Which is why Dr. Ferrar is now internationally banned as a sports physician.

So that leaves WADA, which is a professional association and not a legal or criminal court with it's case against Armstrong. Twice now Armstrong has sued WADA in Federal court claiming his due process rights were being violated. Both times federal courts have rejected Armstrongs case. Armstrong subsequently refused arbitration with WADA and so now they have stripped him.

What's my sentiment about this? I think the evidence is compelling that Armstrong used PED's. I think the evidence is equally compelling that virtually all of his major competitors were too. Pantani did. Ulrich did and so did most of his other major competitors. So if all of Armstrongs major rivals and their team mates and most of the peloton was systematicall doping does that justify Armstrongs alleged use of PEDs? Hell no.

Armstrong is retired now and WADA has no criminal or civil authority over him. He's free to thumb his nose at them. All WADA can do is revoke his wins (but can't take his winnings or earnings) for the record and suspend his license. Certainly a stain on his reputation but other than that, big deal. Armstrong damned well may walk away a serial cheater not that I really care.

What I care about is what this will do for the sport of cycling. I'm fairly sure given UCI's respons to WADA's allegations that their is substance to the charge that UCI did cover up doping allegations on Armstrong. That's understandable. Armstrong did for professional cycling what Michael Jordon did for the NBA. Having it known that their biggest star was a cheat would have be a serious blow to the UCI and professional cycling. Remember, cycling was going through a major doping crises in the late 90's when Aermstrong came back from his struggles with cancer and literally saved the sport and brought international attention and expenential growth and profits to the sport.

In the long run what this says is that if you're going to ride bikes competitively, don't cheat. The evidence is all ready comming in that the aggressive persuit of cheats, new drug testing methods and the biological profiling of licensed athletes has had a major impact. This year on the major climbs of the TdF most of the major competitors were only producing around 350 to 400 watts on major climbs. This is in line with normal physiological capacity and indicates to me that the measures for detecting cheats in the sport of cycling are working and that's what counts.

:whoa:

well....ok. i still think it is a witch hunt. don't forget he beat the charges in europe and the criminal charges in the US. there was no need, other than to tarnish his reputation to bring this about.
 
:whoa:

well....ok. i still think it is a witch hunt. don't forget he beat the charges in europe and the criminal charges in the US. there was no need, other than to tarnish his reputation to bring this about.

I agree with you, it is all history now they should just move on.
 
:whoa:

well....ok. i still think it is a witch hunt. don't forget he beat the charges in europe and the criminal charges in the US. there was no need, other than to tarnish his reputation to bring this about.
He wasn't charged in either Europe or the US. He was investigated. Neither investigation uncovered enough physical evidence to have charged him. USADA's case is based almost entirely on circumstantial evidence and witness testimony.

It could be a witch hunt. I don't know enough about Tygart or USADA to have an opinion there but then again I suspect Lance threw in his cards and said "Ok, have it your way." to limit the damage. Meaning USADA had compelling and very damaging evidence or testimony. I'm thinking if he actually went through with the arbitration and they ugly details went public his reputation would take an even bigger hit. We won't find out now because Lance declined the arbitration process.
 
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He wasn't charged in either Europe or the US. He was investigated. Neither investigation uncovered enough physical evidence to have charged him. USADA's case is based almost entirely on circumstantial evidence and witness testimony.

It could be a witch hunt. I don't know enough about Tygart or USADA to have an opinion there but then again I suspect Lance threw in his cards and said "Ok, have it your way." to limit the damage. Meaning USADA had compelling and very damaging evidence or testimony. I'm thinking if he actually went through with the arbitration and they ugly details went public his reputation would take an even bigger hit. We won't find out now because Lance declined the arbitration process.

yeah...i should have said allegations...i thought the criminal probe made charges, but it only went to the grand jury.

you may be right and i would be inclined to agree, had he not spent so many years fighting the allegations. i understand your point about his drug tests not testing for everything, but that can't be proven now except by witness testimony, which you addressed. that is why i believe they have squat and they know it, they just wanted to tarnish him. he even underwent 24 unannounced drug test during his comeback and each time tested negative.
 
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