Our Military...

[Haiku]

she never does answer... so don't hold your breath

Troll...

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

she never does answer... so don't hold your breath

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Troll...

yes, she could indeed be a troll. She doesn't want to participate in discussions, she just typically flames.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

ROFLMAO... thanks a lot ... took a drink right as I was scrolling down... water all over my keyboard. Bitch.

 

[CanceledB]

yes, she could indeed be a troll. She doesn't want to participate in discussions, she just typically flames.*

Thanks for pointing that out.

*hands you your ass. No wonder you're whining.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

Post #88



Gee how does that happen? Must be the culture of the military itself.

No....

 

[USFREEDOM911]

A thorough background check involves more than friends, family and teachers. It includes neighbors, former neighbors, former co-workers, former boy/girlfriends and spouses, and those NOT considered 'friends'. Nice try.

So you want to allow the comments of someone who doesn't like someone, to be a deciding factor on whether they should be allowed to do something they want to do.

You're an idiot.

 

[Howey]

Wow, our military's full of racist scumbags. The military recruited them with full knowledge of their hate and criminal backgrounds.

How unsurprising.

I remember reading about all the racist grafitti in Iraq, compliments of the troops we were urged to support.

Ask ekg...this has been a particularly sore subject to me*. Why? During the heyday of the Iraq War the Bush administration, saddled by multiple tours of duty, increased incompetence, and massive deaths of US troops, resorted to a tactic never before seen in the military. Rather than initiate a draft to help keep our young men and women out of mental institutions following the war, they decided to seriously lessen recruitment standards. Known gang members were allowed to enlist, convicted felons were allowed to enlist, in some instance even murderers were allowed to enlist.

This still didn't help the troop shortage and made matters worse. Not all of these tainted troops were or have been (yet) weeded out and all of the concerted efforts of our services to address discrimination and racism in the military following the 1948 emancipation of blacks in the military were dealt a serious blow.

Many of our militia members, fringe groups, racist organizations, and mercenary groups today are made up of these same soldiers who care not about our country. THIS will be the legacy of the Bush administration.

And how would you prevent this? Do you not allow service based on what people think? As despicable as these idiots are, unless they have done something they are still members of our society. Just like any other extremist group members.

Its easy to critique it after they commit a crime. But, short of creating some Orwellian 'Big Brother' society, what would you propose we do? Do we ignore free speech because we disagree with what is said?

And you think these would present some valid evidence of the recruits racist beliefs? I was in the military and around some people with serious security clearances. Those background investigations didn't show that they were drug users or had mental problems. But it came out later because of their actions (and continued drug use).

I would also wonder how through these checks would when they are done on the 200,000 or so recruits per year.

I would think that monitoring web sites concerning racist organizations for participation by active duty military would be more effective. I would also think a stricter policy concerning racist acts would be more effective. Both of those involve something the person actually did.

See above. The damage has been done. In the past, security clearance investigations did a great job of identifying potential miscreants. What happened? Democrats and Republicans slashed budgets to the minimum. What was once thorough investigations turned into cursory phone calls to relatives. Bush, again, dessimated the program.

I don't recall any swastika tattoos, but we had a few KKK members on the crew. Or at least they claimed to be. I didn't hang around them much as they dislike the fact that I had kicked the shit out of two of their fellow "Klanners" before I joined.

I remember a few fundamentalist christians who thought we should execute gays and that the law of the land should be biblical.

Again...commanders in recent years have silently allowed fundamentalist Christian soldiers to do what they shouldn't. Proselytize to the enemy. That's far more than the religious tracts found in restrooms and pay phones, left by evangelicals in the military and has helped reduce the standing of our country by foreigners.


* Why? Because there were thousands of able, willing, and patriotic citizens out there willing to serve our country in the military during the Iraq War who weren't criminals.

They were gay. And Bush wouldn't allow it.

 

[Haiku]

Excellant post Howie, Thank You.

 

[CanceledB]

Ask ekg...this has been a particularly sore subject to me*. Why? During the heyday of the Iraq War the Bush administration, saddled by multiple tours of duty, increased incompetence, and massive deaths of US troops, resorted to a tactic never before seen in the military. Rather than initiate a draft to help keep our young men and women out of mental institutions following the war, they decided to seriously lessen recruitment standards. Known gang members were allowed to enlist, convicted felons were allowed to enlist, in some instance even murderers were allowed to enlist.

This still didn't help the troop shortage and made matters worse. Not all of these tainted troops were or have been (yet) weeded out and all of the concerted efforts of our services to address discrimination and racism in the military following the 1948 emancipation of blacks in the military were dealt a serious blow.

Many of our militia members, fringe groups, racist organizations, and mercenary groups today are made up of these same soldiers who care not about our country. THIS will be the legacy of the Bush administration.





See above. The damage has been done. In the past, security clearance investigations did a great job of identifying potential miscreants. What happened? Democrats and Republicans slashed budgets to the minimum. What was once thorough investigations turned into cursory phone calls to relatives. Bush, again, dessimated the program.





Again...commanders in recent years have silently allowed fundamentalist Christian soldiers to do what they shouldn't. Proselytize to the enemy. That's far more than the religious tracts found in restrooms and pay phones, left by evangelicals in the military and has helped reduce the standing of our country by foreigners.


* Why? Because there were thousands of able, willing, and patriotic citizens out there willing to serve our country in the military during the Iraq War who weren't criminals.

They were gay. And Bush wouldn't allow it.

And let's not forget how many gay enlisted interpreters - desperately needed because they spoke ARABIC - were let go because of bigoted policy.

 

[Howey]

And let's not forget how many gay enlisted interpreters - desperately needed because they spoke ARABIC - were let go because of bigoted policy.

Yeah...Isn't it unusual that the one field that required the highest intelligence level was the one frequented by gays?

Hmmm...I wonder why?

 

[CanceledB]

Yeah...Isn't it unusual that the one field that required the highest intelligence level was the one frequented by gays?

Hmmm...I wonder why?

Hmmm...BIG mystery!

I found it not terribly remarkable that the notion was brought up here that a thorough background check woudn't uncover someone's racism, neo-nazism, etc., and it was also asserted that the military itself creates a culture of racism and creates racists. So, to connect some very obvious dots, an organization that cultivates racism, gives a pass to racists in recruitment, and then even lowers the standards specifically to INCLUDE racists would obviously not even bother to be bothered if a background check turned up evidence of racism.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

Hmmm...BIG mystery!

I found it not terribly remarkable that the notion was brought up here that a thorough background check woudn't uncover someone's racism, neo-nazism, etc., and it was also asserted that the military itself creates a culture of racism and creates racists. So, to connect some very obvious dots, an organization that cultivates racism, gives a pass to racists in recruitment, and then even lowers the standards specifically to INCLUDE racists would obviously not even bother to be bothered if a background check turned up evidence of racism.

Nice adjustment of actual facts there.

 

[CanceledB]

Nice adjustment of actual facts there.

No adjustment at all. You just 'don't like' how your detached view and dumbing-down contributions were characterized by me. Tough shit.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

No adjustment at all. You just 'don't like' how your detached view and dumbing-down contributions were characterized by me. Tough shit.

lol No, you didn't like the points made, so you try and spin it to look a different way.

I like the way you claim they lowered the standards specifically to include racists. The standards were lowered because the military couldn't reach its goals with the standards in place. And what standards did they lower that were specifically aimed at racists? I'll give you a hint: None. Yes, they lowered teh standards, but to claim it was specifically to include racists is nonsense.

And the way you claim "...gives a pass to racists in recruitment," makes it sound as though the military was actually trying to recruit racists. Have you any evidence of that or is this just more attempts as smearing?

The same lowered standards allow black and hispanics to enlist despite shortcomings in education or despite evidence of criminal activity. But you want it to be only about the nazis. Its more convenient that way.

And yes, it was brought up that background checks would probably not do much to stop racists from enlisting. Both because it is a difficult thing to prove and because many of these idiots have their racist views blossom in the military. Rather than show any evidence to the contrary, you choose to go on this ridiculous tirade.

Despite the fact that a few who have served in teh military agreed with my posts claiming background checks would do little, you simply want it to work so you keep claiming it will. Looks like you have issues with things that have been said. I'd say "tough shit" for you too.

 

[CanceledB]

lol No, you didn't like the points made, so you try and spin it to look a different way.

Quit lying. Your need to defend the presence of racist scum was pathetically transparent the minute you tried to dumb it down with stupid questions.

I like the way you claim they lowered the standards specifically to include racists. The standards were lowered because the military couldn't reach its goals with the standards in place.

Obviously. Lower standards allowed for gang members, neo-nazis, etc., with known track records, which were considered acceptable under the new lower standards. What part of this contradicts what I assert?

And what standards did they lower that were specifically aimed at racists? I'll give you a hint: None. Yes, they lowered teh standards, but to claim it was specifically to include racists is nonsense.

See above.

And the way you claim "...gives a pass to racists in recruitment," makes it sound as though the military was actually trying to recruit racists. Have you any evidence of that or is this just more attempts as smearing?

Only to you. 'Makes it sound'. Grow up. They DID give a pass to racists in recruitment. Go back and read the OP.

The same lowered standards allow black and hispanics to enlist despite shortcomings in education or despite evidence of criminal activity. But you want it to be only about the nazis. Its more convenient that way.

Spin and bullshit. Yawn.

And yes, it was brought up that background checks would probably not do much to stop racists from enlisting. Both because it is a difficult thing to prove and because many of these idiots have their racist views blossom in the military. Rather than show any evidence to the contrary, you choose to go on this ridiculous tirade.

Gee...and having those views 'blossom' in the military, and STILL be accepted....hmmm....could it be that racist scum has become an acceptable part of the military's culture?

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

Quit lying. Your need to defend the presence of racist scum was pathetically transparent the minute you tried to dumb it down with stupid questions.

I asked how you proposed to fix the problem. Your answers were nonsense and would not change anything. But I am supposed to simply accept that more in-depth background checks would solve the problems, otherwise I am "dumbing down" the discussion. Oh, but wait, you said I dumbed it down before you suggested more in-depth background checks. So I guess I was supposed to just bitch & moan about it with you. Yeah, that always helps solve a problem.

Obviously. Lower standards allowed for gang members, neo-nazis, etc., with known track records, which were considered acceptable under the new lower standards. What part of this contradicts what I assert?

You claimed that they lowered the standards specifically to include racists. That is a lie. They lowered the standards because they could not get their quotas. So if you will stop lying about the motivations behind what was done, I'll stop calling you on them.

 

[CanceledB]

I asked how you proposed to fix the problem. Your answers were nonsense and would not change anything.

WRONG. It is your opinion that a thorough background check wouldn't change anything.

But I am supposed to simply accept that more in-depth background checks would solve the problems, otherwise I am "dumbing down" the discussion.

i don't give a fuck what you accept. Your method of derailing discussions was pegged by Haiku earlier in the thread, and your shitty, boring pattern of doing so has been noted in other threads and discussions as well. You assign bullshit limitations to what's presented before it's even discussed so that you can denigrate the discussion (your insistence that it was all about checking tattoos). Your bullshit's stale, and exposed.

Oh, but wait, you said I dumbed it down before you suggested more in-depth background checks. So I guess I was supposed to just bitch & moan about it with you. Yeah, that always helps solve a problem.

See above.

You claimed that they lowered the standards specifically to include racists. That is a lie. They lowered the standards because they could not get their quotas. So if you will stop lying about the motivations behind what was done, I'll stop calling you on them.

It's not a lie. The standards specifically permitted known scum to now be deemed 'acceptable. You have a neurotic need to split hairs on the issue. Gee I wonder why that is? Could it be due to the importance you don't put on the issue? After all, racism is merely 'politically incorrect' according to you.

And you can 'call me on it' until the cows come home, WB. And I'll continue to point out how despicable your standards are regarding racism just being 'politically incorrect'.

 

[Canceled.2014.1]

i don't give a fuck what you accept. Your method of derailing discussions was pegged by Haiku earlier in the thread, and your shitty, boring pattern of doing so has been noted in other threads and discussions as well. You assign bullshit limitations to what's presented before it's even discussed so that you can denigrate the discussion (your insistence that it was all about checking tattoos). Your bullshit's stale, and exposed.

I raise questions concerning very real limitations to what is presented. Because, in the real world, there ARE limitations. And since I have seen failures in the background checks, even for Top Secret clearances and higher, I have no problem questioning the effectiveness of those checks. Also, as was pointed out, often the racism is cultivated within the military. Now, much earlier on I suggested stricter punishments for being a part of such activity, but you chose to ignore that. It is obvious that once you get your panties in a wad you ignore anything except that which you think you canm ridicule. In short, you no longer wish to discuss a solution. You wish to present what you think should happen and then attack anyone who points out any flaws in your idea or asks questions about your idea. You have done this in several threads and it is nonsense.

As for my comment about it being about tattoos, at that point in the thread all you had suggested was to not allow recruits in with racist tattoos. I found that silly, at best.

And you still have not addressed your outright lie that they lowered the standards specifically to recruit racists.

 

[CanceledB]

I raise questions concerning very real limitations to what is presented. Because, in the real world, there ARE limitations. And since I have seen failures in the background checks, even for Top Secret clearances and higher, I have no problem questioning the effectiveness of those checks. Also, as was pointed out, often the racism is cultivated within the military. Now, much earlier on I suggested stricter punishments for being a part of such activity, but you chose to ignore that. It is obvious that once you get your panties in a wad you ignore anything except that which you think you canm ridicule. In short, you no longer wish to discuss a solution. You wish to present what you think should happen and then attack anyone who points out any flaws in your idea or asks questions about your idea. You have done this in several threads and it is nonsense.

As for my comment about it being about tattoos, at that point in the thread all you had suggested was to not allow recruits in with racist tattoos. I found that silly, at best.

And you still have not addressed your outright lie that they lowered the standards specifically to recruit racists.

Quit repeating bullshit spin. KNOWN scum was deemed acceptable. End of story.