Fatal shooting at Denver screening of The Dark Knight Rises

Yes, we did protest, but we did not have the right to do so, many were jailed, shunned or were put to death for their protests. I am surprised you do not know the history of the sufferettes, but sadly, most people don't.

Many people have been throughout history, shoot Lincoln arrested reporters for writing critical articles.

That courts have, over time, limited the government reaction to people exercising rights is only proper. Again, tell me why Annie Oakley got to carry a weapon if she wasn't a "person"...

Tell me how women owned property back in the day, and they did.

Tell me why women were able to conduct business, to protest, to participate in religion... All of those rights were afforded to all people, except those specifically listed as 3/5 of a person. Women were not included in that exception.

And again, suffrage was not the same thing as those rights. In the beginning of the nation, only those who owned property could vote at all. Most "white men" couldn't vote. Yet those same rights still applied to those people.

Over time we have changed the constitution to include specific things like Voting rights. It does not change what they meant by "the people" in the originating document, other than including those who used to count only as 3/5 of a person (thank the little gods).
 
let's just take the second amendment and show why bijou's logic is dead wrong:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

notice the last phrase. it is not granting anything, rather, it says the government shall not infringe upon a right. that right obviously existed before the second as the second does not create it, it merely protects it.

i doubt bijou will address this post.

This one's easy. Who decided the right already existed? The guys writing them down.
 
Well the obvious answer to that is the ammo should only be delivered to a licenced shooting range and not to a private address. The even more obvious answer is that those kind of weapons were banned by Clinton in the '90s and shouild never have been allowed to become legal again.

And yet you post another reason why it's better for the world that you live in England and that's because this way you are unable to influence those with the ability to think for themselves.


And I"m sure that you'll bet your knickers in a knot over this revelation; but here in AZ, many times we will go out into the desert, find a suitable backstop (ie: a large hill) and make our own firing range.
But then when you have so much open land available, as opposed to England, it's not so strange.
 
This one's easy. Who decided the right already existed? The guys writing them down.

let me see if i understand you.....the right didn't really exist, but because these guys wrote down the law protecting a preexisting right...they actually created the right?
 
let me see if i understand you.....the right didn't really exist, but because these guys wrote down the law protecting a preexisting right...they actually created the right?

None of any of our rights existed in any meaningful way until they were recognized in writing via some law providing for or protecting them. that's correct. :)

That's why they've had to keep 'expanding' rights. Apparently, until that 'expansion' occurred, the rights didn't exist for blacks, gays, etc., until provided for in writing.

You can debate all day what you think you're entitled to as a human being and I would more than likely agree with you on some things. But none of it amounts to a pile of shit legally, unless it can be enforced through the rule of law.
 
Many people have been throughout history, shoot Lincoln arrested reporters for writing critical articles.

That courts have, over time, limited the government reaction to people exercising rights is only proper. Again, tell me why Annie Oakley got to carry a weapon if she wasn't a "person"...

Tell me how women owned property back in the day, and they did.

Tell me why women were able to conduct business, to protest, to participate in religion... All of those rights were afforded to all people, except those specifically listed as 3/5 of a person. Women were not included in that exception.

And again, suffrage was not the same thing as those rights. In the beginning of the nation, only those who owned property could vote at all. Most "white men" couldn't vote. Yet those same rights still applied to those people.

Over time we have changed the constitution to include specific things like Voting rights. It does not change what they meant by "the people" in the originating document, other than including those who used to count only as 3/5 of a person (thank the little gods).

Women were second class citizens whose only rights were those afforded them by the husbands, women could own property in the new world, but were greatly limited, by law.

Annie Oakley was the first renowned female to have gun because of he expansion into the West, where many old convention were ignored because of the hostile nature of the land, she was for entertainment purposes, many women probably woke up to the fact, hey, I can own a gun too, after that.

You kid yourself if you think the rights afforded to white males were enjoyed by women, they had to fight or each and every right they enjoyed.
 
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I have a lot of time for him myself, he's all right. As to why he needs so many guns is a total mystery to me but I've never been able to understand the US males' fixation with guns anyway. I can understand hunting and self protection but having enough weapons for a private army is just mind boggling.

I guess those in Great Britain didn't have those same feelings, when the United States citizens VOLUNTARILY sent all those "privetly owned weapons" to Great Britain during WW II.
 
sorry bud, scotus did an extensive review of articles from the founders and other sources and came to the conclusion that the second applies to individuals.

tell me....how did scotus get it wrong?

Justice Breyer explains that in his dissension.


Again, tell me why Annie Oakley got to carry a weapon if she wasn't a "person"...

Aww...c'mon Dicksee. You, even you, know better than that. Annie Oakley got to carry a gun because there was no regulation of guns in the wild west.

Women were second class citizens whose only rights were those afforded them by the husbands, women could own property in the new world, but were greatly limited, by law.

Here's an excellent article on The Legal Status of Women, 1776-1830

Highlighted within is the fact that in those days, rights were handed out by the individual States, not the government.

State law rather than federal law governed women’s rights in the early Republic. The authority of state law meant that much depended upon where a woman lived and the particular social circumstances in her region of the country. The disparity in standards can perhaps be seen most dramatically in the experiences of African American women. In the North, where states abolished slavery after the Revolution, black women gained rights to marry, to have custody of their children, and to own property. On paper at least, their rights were identical to those of white women. In the slaveholding South, lawmakers continued to deny enslaved workers these basic human rights. But even in the South, a rising number of freed black women theoretically enjoyed the same privileges under the law as white women. However, racial prejudice against both black and Native American women made it difficult to insure these rights in practice.
 
and he could have simply brought some of the home made bombs he made and done far worse.

He could have done a great deal more damage with a soccer ball, ball bearings, a M-80 firecraker, and a big enough amount of gunpowder.
Hell even several tennis balls and the same components would have probably resulted in a higher death toll.
 
HHH was a founding father???? lol...


Sorry, I missed this post. It fails. None of those words are in the Constitution, are they? No. Especially Humphrey's. *giggle*

Fact is, you're basing your argument on a literal interpretation of the Constitution, not letters or statements of the founding fathers. If they wanted something in the Constitution, it would have been there. So obviously there were other founding fathers against arming all the citizens.

Madison put the Second Amendment in the Bill of Rights as a compromise to shut up the states who were fearful of a national government. And we all know how limited the Constitution left the states, don't we?

Here's another quote:

"The difficult job in open cases where there is no clear answer is to take those values in this document, which all Americans hold, which do not change, and to apply them to a world that is ever changing...It's not a matter of policy. It is a matter of what those framers intended."

That's from Justice Stephen Breyer

so basically what you're trying to get us to believe is that madison wrote the constitution, sold it to the people as we'll have all these freedoms and liberties while we limit the newly created federal government, and let everyone vote on it....then pulled a big HAHA, FOOLED YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

is that what you want us to believe?

and look at the last part of breyers comment........."It is a matter of what those framers intended.""
 
No, the point Rana is that he likely would have used the bombs had he not been able to get the guns. Thus blaming this on guns is not logical.

Let's take a look at China and their problems, even with some of the most restrictive laws in the world.

June 3, 1982 Shamshuipo, Hong Kong Li Chihang, 28 5 dead, 43 injured After stabbing his mother and sister to death and injuring two bystanders, 28-year-old Li Chihang entered Anne Anne Kindergarten and started stabbing people. Three children died and 40 other people were injured in the attack. Li was arrested after being shot by a police officer.

August 1998 Henan, China 2 dead, 15 injured A teacher stabbed two children to death and wounded 15 others.

September 14, 1998 Hejiang County, China Lin Peiqing 23 injured Lin Peiqing stabbed 23 elementary school children during a morning flag-raising ceremony.

November 26, 2002 Huaiji county, China Shi Ruoqiu 5 dead, 2 injured Shi Ruoqiu stabbed seven children at Shilong Elementary School with a kitchen knife before being arrested. One child died at the scene, while four more succumbed to their wounds in hospital.

March 7, 2003 Beihai, China Xie Zhongcai, 24 8 injured 24-year-old Xie Zhongcai stabbed four teachers and four children in a kindergarten in Beihai, after one of the teachers, with whom he had been in love, had arranged for him to be beaten up. Xie was finally overpowered by staff members and the father of one of the kindergarten children.

September 11, 2004 Suzhou,
China
Yang Guozhu, 41 28 injured A man armed with a knife and homemade explosives attacked 28 children at a kindergarten.

September 20, 2004 Ying County, China Jia Qingyou, 36 25 injured 36-year-old Jia Qingyou, a bus driver, injured 25 children with a kitchen knife at No. 1 Experimental Primary School in Ying county. He was later sentenced to death and executed.

September 30, 2004 Chenzhou, China Liu Hongwen, 28 4 dead, 12 injured Liu Hongwen, a 28-year-old primary school teacher, killed four children with a knife in a grade one class at a school in Chenzhou and wounded nine other children and three teachers, before taking 65 students hostage. After negotiations with a county government official he surrendered to police. He was later found not guilty by reason of insanity due to schizophrenia.

December 4, 2004 Mingcheng Town, China Liu Zhigang, 30 12 injured 12 students were stabbed by Liu Zhigang, a man suffering from schozophrenia, at the Central Primary School of Mingcheng Town, Panshi City. Liu was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

October 12, 2005 Guangde County, China Liu Shibing, 33 18 injured 18 people, among them 16 children, were injured when Liu Shibing shot them with six home-made guns at Niutoushan Primary School in Guangde.

May 8, 2006 Shiguan, China Bai Ningyang, 19 12 dead, 5 injured Shiguan kindergarten attack. Armed with two knives and petrol 19-year-old Bai Ningyang entered a classroom on the second floor of a kindergarten in Shiguan, a village near Gongyi. He forced the 21 children and the teacher to the back of the room, sprayed the floor with gasoline, and, before setting it on fire, let one child go, because he knew their parents. Bai then locked the door and escaped. 12 of the children died and four others and the teacher were wounded. Bai was arrested the next day and sentenced to death in December 2007.

May 24, 2006 Luoying, China Yang Xinlong, 35 2 dead, 2 injured 35-year-old farmer Yang Xinlong hacked his aunt to death, set her house on fire and injured another person after an argument before entering Luoying Primary School where he stabbed a child to death in a third grade classroom and took 18 others hostage for several hours. When Yang refused to let the children go he was shot and arrested by police.

June 13, 2007 Chiling, China Su Qianxiao, 42 1 dead, 3 injured A nine-year-old boy was killed when Su Qianxiao, a 42-year-old villager from Chiling, stabbed four children with a kitchen knife at Chiling Primary School. He was caught by locals before he could commit suicide by jumping off the school's roof.

September 13, 2007 Hengyang, China Kuang Xi, 28 1 dead, 5 injured 28-year-old Kuang Xi, an allegedly mentally disturbed man, hurled five girls and one boy out of a window on the third floor of Hongqiao Primary School, killing a nine-year-old girl. He was subdued by four men, before he could throw out a seventh child.

March 3, 2009 Mazhan, China Xu Ximei, 40 2 dead, 4 injured 40-year-old Xu Ximei, an allegedly mentally disabled woman, stabbed two boys, aged 4 and 6, to death with a kitchen knife and injured another three children, as well as the 76-year-old grandmother of one of her victims at the primary school of Mazhan village in Guangdong province. She was later found lying in a classroom and arrested.

March 23, 2010 Nanping, China Zheng Minsheng, 41 8 dead, 5 injured Nanping school stabbings. Eight children were hacked to death with a machete and five others were injured outside an elementary school in Nanping. The assailant, identified as 41-year-old Zheng Minsheng, was restrained by school security guards and then arrested by police.

April 13, 2010 Xichang, China Yang Jiaqin, 40 2 dead, 5 injured An assailant armed with a meat cleaver attacked students and bystanders outside an elementary school, killing a schoolboy and an elderly woman and wounding three other children and two adults before being arrested by police. The assailant, identified as 40-year-old Yang Jiaqin, was reported to be mentally ill.

April 28, 2010 Leizhou, China Chen Kangbing, 33 17 injured Chen Kangbing stabbed and injured 16 students and one teacher at Leicheng First Primary School in Leizhou before being restrained by teachers and arrested by police.

April 29, 2010 Taixing, China Xu Yuyuan, 47 32 injured Xu Yuyuan stabbed 29 children, two teachers and a security guard at the Zhongxin Kindergarten in Taixing. It was reported that five of the injured children were in critical condition.

April 30, 2010 Weifang, China Wang Yonglai, 45 1 dead, 6 injured Wang Yonglai, a 45-year-old farmer, used a motorcycle to break through a gate at Shangzhuang Primary School in Weifang and then assaulted several children with a hammer, wounding five of them. A teacher also injured her foot, while trying to stop Wang, who ended his attack by grabbing two children and pouring gasoline over himself. Teachers managed to pull the children to safety, before Wang committed suicide by setting himself on fire.

May 12, 2010 Hanzhong, China Wu Huanming, 48 10 dead, 11 injured An assailant killed seven children and two adults and wounded 11 other children at the Shengshui Temple Kindergarten in Hanzhong when he attacked them with a cleaver. The assailant, identified as 48-year-old Wu Huanming, fled from the school and committed suicide when he returned to his house.

August 3, 2010 Zibo, China Fang Jiantang, 26 3 dead, 7 injured A knife-wielding man attacked children and staff at a kindergarten in Zibo. Three children were killed and three other children and four teachers were injured in the attack. It was reported that two of the injured teachers were in critical condition. The assailant, identified as 26-year-old Fang Jiantang, was arrested by police after the attack.

August 29, 2011 Shanghai, China ..., 30 8 injured A 30-year-old woman slashed eight children with a box cutter at a child-care centre in Shanghai, leaving one of the wounded in serious condition. The attacker, a day care worker at the kindergarten, who was said to have suffered from psychiatric problems, was arrested.
 
this is so wrong.....I have rights, whether law protects it or not because I protect my rights.....with guns.

Good luck with that. If you use your gun to protect a right that the law doesn't recognize, guess what? You'll be breaking the law, and probably lose your 'right' to possess firearms.
 
Then allow me to reply. You call him a sick bastard because he likes to shoot and to hunt? Talk about being a judgemental asshole prone to knee-jerk reactions. Leaning has not committed a crime. He has not hurt anyone. He has a hobby. That you call him a "sick bastard" is a sign of your own issues, not his.

I called him a sick bastard, not because he likes killing animals, I called him a sick bastard because he considered the purchase of guns a suitable gift for his young relatives. That said, he is, by that action, a sick bastard. That may be judgemental. But I have as much right to judge as any other man.
 
Good luck with that. If you use your gun to protect a right that the law doesn't recognize, guess what? You'll be breaking the law, and probably lose your 'right' to possess firearms.
they will have to kill me, or die trying. that's the difference between men like me, and cowards like you. you'll drop to your knees and surrender your rights while i'll stand on my feet to defend my rights.
 
they will have to kill me, or die trying. that's the difference between men like me, and cowards like you. you'll drop to your knees and surrender your rights while i'll stand on my feet to defend my rights.

Yes, I'm just a coward, 'cuz I recognize the difference between 'inalienable' rights and actual ones.
 
I called him a sick bastard, not because he likes killing animals, I called him a sick bastard because he considered the purchase of guns a suitable gift for his young relatives. That said, he is, by that action, a sick bastard. That may be judgemental. But I have as much right to judge as any other man.
and we have every right to call your judgements bullshit.
 
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