Fatal shooting at Denver screening of The Dark Knight Rises

[Canceled.2014.1]

Sure...if by illegal markets you mean gun shows, straw sellers, and guns stolen from "responsible gun owners", then you would be correct.

Automatic weapons are not sold at gun shows. I doubt there are any "straw sales" of automatic weapons either, since the transfer has to be reported to the federal gov't. Theft? Considering what an automatic weapon costs (along with the extra expenses of purchasing an automatic weapon) they are probably kept in a safe.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

so then violent rap lyrics had nothing to do with the violence in the black commumity?

mmmm I seem to remember you thought differently back about a decade when we used to talk about it on politics.com

You are trying to make comparisons of two completely different things. If we had a rash of nutbags shooting people in theaters, I might be inclined to think our attitudes toward firearms might have had an influence, because the evidence would suggest that. In the case of violent rap lyrics, we saw a direct correlation in the increase of black-on-black violence. I don't recall ever making that argument, but it's a far cry from the argument here. This was the random act of a mentally unstable person, not a routine event happening everyday all around us.

 

[CanceledB]

You are trying to make comparisons of two completely different things. If we had a rash of nutbags shooting people in theaters, I might be inclined to think our attitudes toward firearms might have had an influence, because the evidence would suggest that. In the case of violent rap lyrics, we saw a direct correlation in the increase of black-on-black violence. I don't recall ever making that argument, but it's a far cry from the argument here. This was the random act of a mentally unstable person, not a routine event happening everyday all around us.

Quel surprise.

 

[Lowaicue]

So you intentionally deflected the direct question...Thanks for admitting your dishonesty.



By firearm?



Great, you going to outlaw meat cleavers as well...?



Because they have arguably the most restrictive gun laws in the world, where your door can be kicked in on the mere suspicion of having a gun, or ammo. Yet, even they have death that occurs by gun violence.



I don't claim to know more than someone else, that is how polite people discuss things....A concept that obviously eludes you.



The least you could do when insulting someone by saying that you are infinitely smarter than they are, is get the spelling right.....LOL....



You were? See, I don't consider condescending arrogance to be civil...

A misunderstanding of this magnitude must be by design. Anyway lets just take one thing at a time.
FIVE deaths. NONE were recorded as having been by the use of firearms. NONE. You know how many NONE is? I said gangland retribution tends to be by the use of choppers. I did not even hint that they should be made illegal. They are after all used for perfectly legitimate purposes in every kitchen in Hong Kong. Guns have no legitimate purpose outside war and uniformed service use.You tell me you know how polite people discuss things, I would simply refer you to the way you have used language to insult and belittle every time your tongue lolls over your keyboard.
Thank you for pointing out my rather silly spelling mistake. I will make no excuse.
Finally, my little yank friend. I was civil to you. I was prepared to give you a chance. I DO know more than you about this (although clearly not more than everyone) my advice to you is learn from your betters. Have you discovered the location of Hong Kong yet?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

A misunderstanding of this magnitude must be by design. Anyway lets just take one thing at a time.
FIVE deaths. NONE were recorded as having been by the use of firearms. NONE. You know how many NONE is? I said gangland retribution tends to be by the use of choppers. I did not even hint that they should be made illegal. They are after all used for perfectly legitimate purposes in every kitchen in Hong Kong. Guns have no legitimate purpose outside war and uniformed service use.u tell me you know how polite people discuss things, I would simply refer you to the way you have used language to insult and belittle every time your tongue lolls over your keyboard.ank you for pointing out my rather silly spelling mistake. I will make no excuse.Finally, my little yank friend. I was civil to you. I was prepared to give you a chance. I DO know more than you about this (although clearly not more than everyone)y advice to you is learn from your betters. Have you discovered the location of Hong Kong yet?

you know the one thing that continually makes you anti gunners look so stupid? is the retarded notion that guns have no legitimate purpose other than war and uniformed service. how does the 65 year old grandmother keep her disability check in the face of thugs with knives? or how about the bullied gay man facing 5 bigots intent on pounding his face in? or the petite 22 year old college girl faced with potential gang rape on campus?

you idiots just can't comprehend that people use guns for self defense, and I think it's willfully, because you just can't see yourselves being able to defend yourselves. we call this 'projection' and maybe you should start seeing a therapist to deal with your cowardice.

 

[j-mac]

A misunderstanding of this magnitude must be by design. Anyway lets just take one thing at a time.
FIVE deaths. NONE were recorded as having been by the use of firearms. NONE. You know how many NONE is? I said gangland retribution tends to be by the use of choppers. I did not even hint that they should be made illegal. They are after all used for perfectly legitimate purposes in every kitchen in Hong Kong. Guns have no legitimate purpose outside war and uniformed service use.You tell me you know how polite people discuss things, I would simply refer you to the way you have used language to insult and belittle every time your tongue lolls over your keyboard.
Thank you for pointing out my rather silly spelling mistake. I will make no excuse.
Finally, my little yank friend. I was civil to you. I was prepared to give you a chance. I DO know more than you about this (although clearly not more than everyone) my advice to you is learn from your betters. Have you discovered the location of Hong Kong yet?

You're just ignorant...Probably willful as well...

Fortunately, unlike some other countries, Hong Kong's press doesn't try to hide the fact that plenty of guns are smuggled into the country. In Living in the Shadow of the Gun (July 3, 2001, Hong Kong iMail Newspapers), Lara Wozniak, reveals with candor just how bad the Hong Kong black market gun problem truly is. While she says people pay as much as $5000 for an illegal firearm there, she explains that "you might not have to even spend a $10 coin on a gun if you are purchasing a big drug shipment." A tenspot for a criminal, while lawful citizens face lengthy jail terms or a bullet in the head if they are caught possessing a gun for defense against Hong Kong's brazen underworld thugs.

The police admit partial ignorance as to how banned guns are coming into the country. Said one official, a specialist in the field who for security purposes would not give his name, "If we knew that, we'd shut them down." Indeed. Rather reminiscent of the American cocaine trade, wouldn't you say? Supply meets demand, and a few people get killed in the process -- as collateral damage, to bring a product to the marketplace.

Why don't they just tighten up border checks? Put a stop to the illegal smuggling of guns?

"Vince Pinto of Selpro Limited, a Hong Kong-based importer and dealer of law enforcement products, said smuggling, in its various forms was virtually impossible to stop. No law enforcement agency anywhere in the world has the resources to conduct 100 per cent checks on every single person, container, ship, aircraft, car or goods vehicles..."

But why don't they just create extreme penalties for smuggling? According to Mrs. Wozniak's report, a smuggler named Cheung Tze-keung was executed in 1998, "for the smuggling." That's rather extreme as far as penalties go, yet Hong Kong's gun-related crimes are reportedly increasing, according to Mr. Pinto. "It would seem we are witnessing an increase in such crimes at the present time. However, I believe it is premature to say whether this will be a sustained increase or merely a temporary blip on the screen," he said.

The Law of Supply and Demand will answer that question for Mr. Pinto. If his best anti-smuggling task forces cannot put an end to illegal drugs coming into the country, they cannot stop the guns in the same crates.

What kind of guns are making it into the place where gun possession can produce "death by government"?

"Two shots were fired from a Black Star pistol last week during the $1 million Mong Kok jewelry heist. A Black Star was also used in the May 22 shooting of two policemen during an anti-burglary operation also in Mong Kok."

"But other weapons, such as vintage American-made firearms from the Vietnam War, enter Hong Kong as part of drug shipments from Vietnam. And Russian-made revolvers and bombs are smuggled into the SAR via organised crime groups in Macau and the mainland who have access to the weaponry from China's borders with Russia."

People in America who call for bans on guns are in essence saying that they only want the police and criminals to possess guns. Many of them will not even address the black market issue, because it points to the flaw in their anti-gun utopian vision.

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2161

 

[Lowaicue]

Just to re-inforce my contention that part of the fault for what happened at the cinema lies in the fact that Americans have become more latently violent over the last few years let me point you to my last post which was in response to j-mac (is he new or is he a reincarnation of one of the usual belligerent teenagers?) The United Nation stats listed HK as having had 5 manslaughters in the year in question. Our dear friend j-mac, cannot get it through his thick skull that there is nothing to say that firearms were used in any of the cases. He judges everything by his own back yard. He clearly is so used to violence, on the streets, in cinemas, in schools, in comic books, in his own head that he cannot conceive of a time or place that does not have an American level of violence.
I have been looking for further statistical evidence but am unable to find anything about gun crime in HK. However in the gun ownership statistics, we have no mention at all in the top 30 countries. The US is listed top with a gun ownership of 88.8 guns per 100 citizens. Now MY logic suggests that each gun owner has purchased his weapon for one of two reasons. 1. He wishes to cause violence or commit a crime, or 2. he is frightened that someone that he might have some contact with is intent on harming him. (excluding hunters of wild animals).
I have never been frightened that anyone will shoot me. I have never used or handled a gun of any sort since I was forced to carry a rifle in the compulsory cadet force at school. I do not know what a gun feels like. I do not know how heavy a gun is. I do not know the terminology connected with guns. and...I'm just trying to remember... I dont think I have ever seen a gun fired that has not been on the TV or cinema... I may be wrong but I cannot recall at this moment.
Poor j-mac. I really feel sorry for him. and... how does an American find peace? Are you ALWAYS frightened?

 

[Lowaicue]

You're just ignorant...Probably willful as well...

Sorry old chap. That is totally untrue. Your reporter has confused Hong Kong with China. Gun smuggling (IF it still exists - this is a 2001 article) uses Hong Kong as a gateway into and out of China. I have never said that there are no crooks here. But I will repeat and repeat as often as necessary so you might understand, We do not have gun crime of any significant amount in HK. Thousands of products are smuggled between China and the rest of Asia, cigarettes, DVDs guns, clothes, handbags, fridges, anything you care to mention.
Selpro are simply an importer of security products for sale to the various law enforcement agencies.
I would trust the UN before something called 'keepandbeararms.com' LOL...you must be fuckin jokin!

 

[SmarterthanYou]

The US is listed top with a gun ownership of 88.8 guns per 100 citizens. Now MY logic suggests that each gun owner has purchased his weapon for one of two reasons. 1. He wishes to cause violence or commit a crime, or 2. he is frightened that someone that he might have some contact with is intent on harming him. (excluding hunters of wild animals).

your logic is flawed and illogical

 

[Lowaicue]

your logic is flawed and illogical

Of course, by your standards, it is.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Of course, by your standards, it is.

by anyones standards, at least those who are rational and intelligent.

 

[Lowaicue]

As if further evidence was necessary that Americans suffer from hollywoodised violence and that they are affected, in their immaturity by comics and cinema, here is the latest:
Warners new film 'Gangster Squad' is likely to see significant edits as a direct result of the Colorado shooting. Warners will discuss today Monday, possible edits. It is also likely that the release date of September 7th will be changed.
Why?
Because there is a scene in the film that features a cinema shooting.
There, that's nice, isnt it?
Can an entire country be insane? can an entire nation be so misguided that they just go out and kill? Your films are your new folk tales, they are your culture and they instill into Mr Average American fear and violence. Yeah. Lets nook Hollywood! Yeah. Gimme mah guns, Ahm gonna get ma some fun and kill me some mother f***ker. Yeah. Yee hahhhh!
Fortunately there are those who are as disgusted by this as we non americans are. But there are few, even of them, who are prepared to do anything about it...cos its in your bloody constitution.
When will the next mass shooting be? Next week? Next month? Tomorrow? Will YOU be killed? You wife? Your husband? Your children? No, of course not. You are responsible gun owners. 89 out of every 100 of you. Yeah. Like I believe that.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

As if further evidence was necessary that Americans suffer from hollywoodised violence and that they are affected, in their immaturity by comics and cinema, here is the latest:
Warners new film 'Gangster Squad' is likely to see significant edits as a direct result of the Colorado shooting. Warners will discuss today Monday, possible edits. It is also likely that the release date of September 7th will be changed.
Why?
Because there is a scene in the film that features a cinema shooting.
There, that's nice, isnt it?
Can an entire country be insane? can an entire nation be so misguided that they just go out and kill? Your films are your new folk tales, they are your culture and they instill into Mr Average American fear and violence. Yeah. Lets nook Hollywood! Yeah. Gimme mah guns, Ahm gonna get ma some fun and kill me some mother f***ker. Yeah. Yee hahhhh!
Fortunately there are those who are as disgusted by this as we non americans are. But there are few, even of them, who are prepared to do anything about it...cos its in your bloody constitution.
When will the next mass shooting be? Next week? Next month? Tomorrow? Will YOU be killed? You wife? Your husband? Your children? No, of course not. You are responsible gun owners. 89 out of every 100 of you. Yeah. Like I believe that.

Well maybe at the next shooting STY or another of our intrepid JPP nutballs will be there and they will jump out, dramatically drop to one knee, shoot the perp in the head as others look on as if their eyes have glimpsed upon a God, blow on their still smoking semi-automatics, do the Tebow, look around the theater and manly mutter "anyone else wanna make my day?" and all will end well.

It could happen cause I saw it in like five different movies. Not all at once, but still...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Well maybe at the next shooting STY or another of our intrepid JPP nutballs will be there and they will jump out, dramatically drop to one knee, shoot the perp in the head as others look on as if their eyes have glimpsed upon a God, blow on their still smoking semi-automatics, do the Tebow, look around the theater and manly mutter "anyone else wanna make my day?" and all will end well.

It could happen cause I saw it in like five different movies. Not all at once, but still...

Makes sense.... most liberals live in a fantasy world where they believe everything seen in a movie is fact.... so I can see it!

It's a wonder the left hasn't come out and blamed Batman for this tragedy.

The first thought that crossed my mind when all of this happened, was how this would have played out in the Old West, would someone have gotten away with killing this many in a theater back then, before someone stopped him? Then I remembered, Lincoln was shot in a theater, and no one prevented that. So even back then, crazy people did insane things, and there wasn't anything that could have been done to prevent that. The same is true today, in spite of our humanistic desire to find answers, to think we can somehow prevent these things. We have to keep reminding ourselves, it's normal and natural for us to seek answers, for us to think there is something that we've overlooked, something we could have done or could do in the future... this is our natural human reaction, but we MUST give ourselves a slap in the face, and realize... nothing could have been done to prevent this, it's a random act of individual madness we couldn't foresee or prevent.

 

[j-mac]

Sorry old chap. That is totally untrue. Your reporter has confused Hong Kong with China. Gun smuggling (IF it still exists - this is a 2001 article) uses Hong Kong as a gateway into and out of China. I have never said that there are no crooks here. But I will repeat and repeat as often as necessary so you might understand, We do not have gun crime of any significant amount in HK. Thousands of products are smuggled between China and the rest of Asia, cigarettes, DVDs guns, clothes, handbags, fridges, anything you care to mention.
Selpro are simply an importer of security products for sale to the various law enforcement agencies.
I would trust the UN before something called 'keepandbeararms.com' LOL...you must be fuckin jokin!

Now come on Low....I know you have from the beginning known what it was I was getting at here...Are we in the United States gun owners, and therefore violent by nature? I don't think you can make that argument solely on the ownership of guns. Nor do I think that guns make a person violent.

I asked you after your overtly insulting screed that HK was a "more civilized" society because they weren't allowed to own a gun, if there was gun violence in HK considering the arguably most stringent gun laws in the world...So far you have danced, twisted, and hurled more insults my way, all the while avoiding that question with words like "significant" and "relatively".... The answer is yes there is... Now admittedly it is nearly non existent with HK's law fining people found in possesion HKD $100,000 and 14 years in prision for merely owning a gun, but the answer is yes it does happen....here is an example from 2006....

In a normally quiet corner of Tsim Sha Tsui, tension remained high as police continued to gather evidence from the scene of a shootout in which the two officers were killed.

Investigations began immediately after the discovery of three unconscious men on the floor of a pedestrian subway at Canton Road and Austin Road.

Officers, joined by a canine unit, combed the area with guns drawn, fearing other armed men.

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=11&art_id=14518&sid=7117180&con_type=3

HK's price for this low gun crime culture is one of the highest 'police states' in the Asian world as noted here...

http://www.crime.hku.hk/rb-crimetrends.htm

So you Low prefer to live in a quasi police state...Good for you...Here in America we are independent individuals. We have a right guaranteed and upheld by our highest court to own, posses a firearm. If you don't like it, don't understand it, can't stand it? Don't come, or don't live here...But if you think you are better than I because of your geographical location, and police state living, just know that even with your highly restrictive laws you still have gun violence, and many of the same crimes (non gun) that the rest of the world has, you just can't defend yourself.

So feel sorry for me sir, nah, don't shed a tear....I feel sorry for you.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Just to re-inforce my contention that part of the fault for what happened at the cinema lies in the fact that Americans have become more latently violent over the last few years let me point you to my last post which was in response to j-mac (is he new or is he a reincarnation of one of the usual belligerent teenagers?) The United Nation stats listed HK as having had 5 manslaughters in the year in question. Our dear friend j-mac, cannot get it through his thick skull that there is nothing to say that firearms were used in any of the cases. He judges everything by his own back yard. He clearly is so used to violence, on the streets, in cinemas, in schools, in comic books, in his own head that he cannot conceive of a time or place that does not have an American level of violence.
I have been looking for further statistical evidence but am unable to find anything about gun crime in HK. However in the gun ownership statistics, we have no mention at all in the top 30 countries. The US is listed top with a gun ownership of 88.8 guns per 100 citizens. Now MY logic suggests that each gun owner has purchased his weapon for one of two reasons. 1. He wishes to cause violence or commit a crime, or 2. he is frightened that someone that he might have some contact with is intent on harming him. (excluding hunters of wild animals).
I have never been frightened that anyone will shoot me. I have never used or handled a gun of any sort since I was forced to carry a rifle in the compulsory cadet force at school. I do not know what a gun feels like. I do not know how heavy a gun is. I do not know the terminology connected with guns. and...I'm just trying to remember... I dont think I have ever seen a gun fired that has not been on the TV or cinema... I may be wrong but I cannot recall at this moment.
Poor j-mac. I really feel sorry for him. and... how does an American find peace? Are you ALWAYS frightened?

one person with weapons against over a hundred without weapons. how do you figure that makes americans more violent, when 99% of the people there were peacable folks that were unarmed victims by choice?

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Well maybe at the next shooting STY or another of our intrepid JPP nutballs will be there and they will jump out, dramatically drop to one knee, shoot the perp in the head as others look on as if their eyes have glimpsed upon a God, blow on their still smoking semi-automatics, do the Tebow, look around the theater and manly mutter "anyone else wanna make my day?" and all will end well.

It could happen cause I saw it in like five different movies. Not all at once, but still...

hey darla, blow me. if you like to generalize because you hate men, allow me to return the favor and call you a slut because you have the equipment.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

hey darla, blow me. if you like to generalize because you hate men, allow me to return the favor and call you a slut because you have the equipment.

No I've been very clear that you specifically are nuts.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Makes sense.... most liberals live in a fantasy world where they believe everything seen in a movie is fact.... so I can see it!

It's a wonder the left hasn't come out and blamed Batman for this tragedy.

The first thought that crossed my mind when all of this happened, was how this would have played out in the Old West, would someone have gotten away with killing this many in a theater back then, before someone stopped him? Then I remembered, Lincoln was shot in a theater, and no one prevented that. So even back then, crazy people did insane things, and there wasn't anything that could have been done to prevent that. The same is true today, in spite of our humanistic desire to find answers, to think we can somehow prevent these things. We have to keep reminding ourselves, it's normal and natural for us to seek answers, for us to think there is something that we've overlooked, something we could have done or could do in the future... this is our natural human reaction, but we MUST give ourselves a slap in the face, and realize... nothing could have been done to prevent this, it's a random act of individual madness we couldn't foresee or prevent.

It's easy to say that there's nothing you can do. Easy and lazy. But when we compare our stats to all other countries we quickly discover that this is simply not true.

 

[Cancel 2016.11]

Why is the United States' gun murder rate 20x higher than the next 22 industrialized and populous nations COMBINED???

The fact that the nutballs don't want to address this is telling. Of course, they're part of the problem. There's no doubt that we in this country have far too many STY's hiding in their fortress-homes, stockpiling weapons, and pissing their pants over every knock on their door. What breeds this uniquely American paranoia?

Common sense gun control like the assault weapons ban, which had it not been allowed to expire due to pressure from the crazies and cowardice from the non-crazies, would have prevented Holmes from buying the worse of the weapons. But gun control is not the only answer. Canada proves this, IMO.

Public health infrastructure, outreach, education, and the destigmatization of mental illness is badly needed in this country.

And still, even when we do that, we will not eliminate gun violence in this country. You can't eliminate it. First of all, there is something wrong with America that no one can really explain. Paranoia and fear thrive here. Even with mental health treatments we will remain the most fearful people in the world. Furthermore, there are many things you can't eliminate. We haven't eliminated drunk driving deaths, but we've greatly reduced them. That saves a lot of lives. Just because we haven't completely ended drunk driving does this mean we should make it legal? Of course not. Only gun nuts argue this about gun laws. And only nuts agree with them.