Colorado tragedy: THINK IT THROUGH!

Taichiliberal

Taichiliberal

Shaken, not stirred!
Well, here we go again. Another nut job in Colorado goes on a planned killing spree with a personal arsenal he easily and legally obtained. Pro-gun control and NRA pundits once again fill the internet, radio, television and print media with the old argument: just how many guns are necessary to obtain total personal protection?

The one aspect of all this has always fascinated me: The idea of allowing any law abiding citizen to qualify and carry a concealed weapon anywhere and everywhere in the U.S.A.

You already had some local ex-politician suggest that if you had a few people strapped via a CWP (concealed weapon permit) in that theatre, this tragedy may have had fewer lives lost.

Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances. Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech...and damned near got the hero of the Arizona shooting killed!

Does this mean we take away everyone's guns? Nope. Does this mean we severely limit weapons to a select few? Nope. But this does mean that we have to take some simple steps to make sure that any joker without a rap sheet can load up for WW3 or some sick Turner Diary fantasy.

Just think it through folks.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well, here we go again. Another nut job in Colorado goes on a planned killing spree with a personal arsenal he easily and legally obtained. Pro-gun control and NRA pundits once again fill the internet, radio, television and print media with the old argument: just how many guns are necessary to obtain total personal protection?

The one aspect of all this has always fascinated me: The idea of allowing any law abiding citizen to qualify and carry a concealed weapon anywhere and everywhere in the U.S.A.

You already had some local ex-politician suggest that if you had a few people strapped via a CWP (concealed weapon permit) in that theatre, this tragedy may have had fewer lives lost.

Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances. Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech...and damned near got the hero of the Arizona shooting killed!

Does this mean we take away everyone's guns? Nope. Does this mean we severely limit weapons to a select few? Nope. But this does mean that we have to take some simple steps to make sure that any joker without a rap sheet can load up for WW3 or some sick Turner Diary fantasy.

Just think it through folks.
Click to expand...

I realize that this is only slightly part of the topic, but the "wild west" wasn't the shoot-out marathon the movies show.

From: http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

"In the real Dodge City of history, there were five killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in the little town's frontier history. In the most violent year in Deadwood, South Dakota, only four people were killed. In the worst year in Tombstone, home of the shoot-out at the OK Corral, only five people were killed. The only reason the OK Corral shoot-out even became famous was that town boosters deliberately overplayed the drama to attract new settlers. They cashed in on the tourist boom by inventing a myth.

The most notorious cow towns in Kansas—Abilene, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Wichita, and Caldwell—did see more violence than similar-sized small towns elsewhere. But not as much as you might think. Records indicate that between 1870 and 1885, there were only 45 murders in those towns."

All that despite the fact that most people had guns.
 
WinterBorn said:
I realize that this is only slightly part of the topic, but the "wild west" wasn't the shoot-out marathon the movies show.

From: http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

"In the real Dodge City of history, there were five killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in the little town's frontier history. In the most violent year in Deadwood, South Dakota, only four people were killed. In the worst year in Tombstone, home of the shoot-out at the OK Corral, only five people were killed. The only reason the OK Corral shoot-out even became famous was that town boosters deliberately overplayed the drama to attract new settlers. They cashed in on the tourist boom by inventing a myth.

The most notorious cow towns in Kansas—Abilene, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Wichita, and Caldwell—did see more violence than similar-sized small towns elsewhere. But not as much as you might think. Records indicate that between 1870 and 1885, there were only 45 murders in those towns."

All that despite the fact that most people had guns.
Click to expand...

That doesn't even compare to Detroit last year......about 50 murders in that one city alone....wonder why ?.....Well think that through.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well, here we go again. Another nut job in Colorado goes on a planned killing spree with a personal arsenal he easily and legally obtained. Pro-gun control and NRA pundits once again fill the internet, radio, television and print media with the old argument: just how many guns are necessary to obtain total personal protection?

The one aspect of all this has always fascinated me: The idea of allowing any law abiding citizen to qualify and carry a concealed weapon anywhere and everywhere in the U.S.A.

You already had some local ex-politician suggest that if you had a few people strapped via a CWP (concealed weapon permit) in that theatre, this tragedy may have had fewer lives lost.

Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances. Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech...and damned near got the hero of the Arizona shooting killed!

Does this mean we take away everyone's guns? Nope. Does this mean we severely limit weapons to a select few? Nope. But this does mean that we have to take some simple steps to make sure that any joker without a rap sheet can load up for WW3 or some sick Turner Diary fantasy.

Just think it through folks.
Click to expand...

Let's take a look at the places where mass shootings occurred.

(Excerpt) 16 major mass shootings in the last 3 decades.

The deaths of 12 people at a movie theatre in the Denver suburb of Aurora, Colo., early Friday is the latest in a long list of mass shootings around the world:
July 22, 2011: At least 80 people are killed at a summer camp on the Norwegian island of Utoya. A man arrested also is suspected in a blast earlier the same day in downtown Oslo that killed seven.
April 30, 2009: Farda Gadyrov, 29, enters the prestigious Azerbaijan State Oil Academy in the capital, Baku, armed with an automatic pistol and clips. He kills 12 people before killing himself as police close in.
March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people — including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy — across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.
Sept. 23, 2008: Matti Saari, 22, walks into a vocational college in Kauhajoki, Finland, and opens fire, killing 10 people and burning their bodies with firebombs before shooting himself fatally in the head.
Nov. 7, 2007: After revealing plans for his attack in YouTube postings, 18-year-old Pekka-Eric Auvinen fires kills eight people at his high school in Tuusula, Finland.
April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, 23, kills 32 people and himself on Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va.
April 26, 2002: Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, who had been expelled from school in Erfurt, Germany, kills 13 teachers, two former classmates and policeman, before committing suicide.
April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.
April 28, 1996: Martin Bryant, 29, bursts into cafeteria in seaside resort of Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, shooting 20 people to death. Driving away, he kills 15 others. He was captured and imprisoned.
March 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, kills 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and then kills himself.
Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.
June 18, 1990: James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.
Dec. 6, 1989: Marc Lepine, 25, bursts into Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique college, shooting at women he encounters, killing 14 and then himself.
Aug. 19, 1987: Michael Ryan, 27, kills 16 people in small market town of Hungerford, England, and then shoots himself dead after being cornered by police.
Aug. 20, 1986: Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.
July 18, 1984: James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty. (End)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/20/mass-shootings-list.html


I noticed they never mentioned the Fort Hood shooting so I've included it. November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting.

If we look at the locations of mass shootings we see the vast majority are places where one would not expect to see armed people. Would the outcome have been different if teachers were armed? I can't see the outcomes being worse. Even in situations like the theatre where the scenarios you describe might occur at least there is a fighting chance. Certainly in restaurants and cafeterias and schools/colleges the outcomes would have been different if others had fire arms. Furthermore, a mass shooter would probably be discouraged knowing there were armed people present. They would know the first shot they got off was the signing of their death sentence.
 
WinterBorn said:
I realize that this is only slightly part of the topic, but the "wild west" wasn't the shoot-out marathon the movies show.

From: http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

"In the real Dodge City of history, there were five killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in the little town's frontier history. In the most violent year in Deadwood, South Dakota, only four people were killed. In the worst year in Tombstone, home of the shoot-out at the OK Corral, only five people were killed. The only reason the OK Corral shoot-out even became famous was that town boosters deliberately overplayed the drama to attract new settlers. They cashed in on the tourist boom by inventing a myth.

The most notorious cow towns in Kansas—Abilene, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Wichita, and Caldwell—did see more violence than similar-sized small towns elsewhere. But not as much as you might think. Records indicate that between 1870 and 1885, there were only 45 murders in those towns."

All that despite the fact that most people had guns.
Click to expand...

It wasn't "most people", but a well regulated local police force, and trained, deputized citizens. Remember, guns were just as comparatively expensive as they are today...so not "EVERYONE" was strapped, but comparatively more were than in today's towns, given the population disparity. And you had a LOT of folks who were veterens of wars domestic and foreign, and kept their weapons. the idea that everyone was strapped is overblown, but even back then as towns grew people realized the need for gun control. Just saying.
 
bravo said:
That doesn't even compare to Detroit last year......about 50 murders in that one city alone....wonder why ?.....Well think that through.
Click to expand...

You should think it through, because back in the day you had gun control instituted in towns that were somewhat lawless and had shootings....you know, sheriffs, deputies, posses, marshalls. These things didn't come about because everyone was strapped....actually they weren't, as guns COST MONEY. But comparatively more people were armed than today...and you still had crime. Same thng during the roaring twenties. think it through.
 
apple0154 said:
Let's take a look at the places where mass shootings occurred.

(Excerpt) 16 major mass shootings in the last 3 decades.

The deaths of 12 people at a movie theatre in the Denver suburb of Aurora, Colo., early Friday is the latest in a long list of mass shootings around the world:
July 22, 2011: At least 80 people are killed at a summer camp on the Norwegian island of Utoya. A man arrested also is suspected in a blast earlier the same day in downtown Oslo that killed seven.
April 30, 2009: Farda Gadyrov, 29, enters the prestigious Azerbaijan State Oil Academy in the capital, Baku, armed with an automatic pistol and clips. He kills 12 people before killing himself as police close in.
March 10, 2009: Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people — including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy — across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.
Sept. 23, 2008: Matti Saari, 22, walks into a vocational college in Kauhajoki, Finland, and opens fire, killing 10 people and burning their bodies with firebombs before shooting himself fatally in the head.
Nov. 7, 2007: After revealing plans for his attack in YouTube postings, 18-year-old Pekka-Eric Auvinen fires kills eight people at his high school in Tuusula, Finland.
April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, 23, kills 32 people and himself on Virginia Tech campus in Blacksburg, Va.
April 26, 2002: Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, who had been expelled from school in Erfurt, Germany, kills 13 teachers, two former classmates and policeman, before committing suicide.
April 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.
April 28, 1996: Martin Bryant, 29, bursts into cafeteria in seaside resort of Port Arthur in Tasmania, Australia, shooting 20 people to death. Driving away, he kills 15 others. He was captured and imprisoned.
March 13, 1996: Thomas Hamilton, 43, kills 16 kindergarten children and their teacher in elementary school in Dunblane, Scotland, and then kills himself.
Oct. 16, 1991: A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.
June 18, 1990: James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.
Dec. 6, 1989: Marc Lepine, 25, bursts into Montreal's Ecole Polytechnique college, shooting at women he encounters, killing 14 and then himself.
Aug. 19, 1987: Michael Ryan, 27, kills 16 people in small market town of Hungerford, England, and then shoots himself dead after being cornered by police.
Aug. 20, 1986: Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.
July 18, 1984: James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty. (End)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/07/20/mass-shootings-list.html


I noticed they never mentioned the Fort Hood shooting so I've included it. November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting.

If we look at the locations of mass shootings we see the vast majority are places where one would not expect to see armed people. Would the outcome have been different if teachers were armed? I can't see the outcomes being worse. Even in situations like the theatre where the scenarios you describe might occur at least there is a fighting chance. Certainly in restaurants and cafeterias and schools/colleges the outcomes would have been different if others had fire arms. Furthermore, a mass shooter would probably be discouraged knowing there were armed people present. They would know the first shot they got off was the signing of their death sentence.
Click to expand...

Your summation is contradicted by the FACT that you had a mass shooting at Ft. Hood....a military base where numerous guns are but a stones throw away...trained people. Then YOU want to assume that a bunch of untrained CWP folk would prevent crimes in a civilian situation? Sorry, but no cop worth his salt is going to condone that train of thought. You can't see the situation being worse? What makes you think the CWP folk are all crack shots in panic situations? And if cops arrive quickly, how are they to determine who is who? Remember, the guy who tackled AZ Congresswoamn Gifford was almost shot by a CWP guy. And if you do a quick google search, you'll find a lot more actual fatalities committed by CWP folk with good intentions. this is why I say think it through.
 
The day President Ronald Reagan got shot he was surrounded by no less than 30 people all federal law officers or Secret Service and all packing heat to bust. President Reagan got shot anyway. And James Brady is still disabled from his wounds there. Just how many shots were there? All that heat and no one could stop it? Not even expertly trained protective officers? I don't even want some jack leg CWC or CWP anywhere close to me if the shit hits the fan.
 
WinterBorn said:
I realize that this is only slightly part of the topic, but the "wild west" wasn't the shoot-out marathon the movies show.

From: http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

"In the real Dodge City of history, there were five killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in the little town's frontier history. In the most violent year in Deadwood, South Dakota, only four people were killed. In the worst year in Tombstone, home of the shoot-out at the OK Corral, only five people were killed. The only reason the OK Corral shoot-out even became famous was that town boosters deliberately overplayed the drama to attract new settlers. They cashed in on the tourist boom by inventing a myth.

The most notorious cow towns in Kansas—Abilene, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Wichita, and Caldwell—did see more violence than similar-sized small towns elsewhere. But not as much as you might think. Records indicate that between 1870 and 1885, there were only 45 murders in those towns."

All that despite the fact that most people had guns.
Click to expand...

It is also a fact that most Wild West towns had a no guns policy.

People entering the town were required to surrender their firearms to the sheriff. In fact, a story that has come to epitomize the violence of the Wild West involved a conflict over such a law. When Virgil Earp, along with his brothers Morgan and Wyatt and their friend Doc Holliday, confronted five cowboys in the city of Tombstone over carrying firearms in town, violence erupted. This incident became known as the gunfight at the OK corral. Yet it's interesting to note that even in this most famous gunfight of the violent West, only three people were killed. In any modern city today, such a minor incident would probably not even be front page news.
Click to expand...


http://www.buzzle.com/articles/the-wild-west-of-myth-and-reality.html
 
WinterBorn said:
I realize that this is only slightly part of the topic, but the "wild west" wasn't the shoot-out marathon the movies show.

From: http://www.unpopulartruth.com/2009/04/myths-of-old-west.html

"In the real Dodge City of history, there were five killings in 1878, the most homicidal year in the little town's frontier history. In the most violent year in Deadwood, South Dakota, only four people were killed. In the worst year in Tombstone, home of the shoot-out at the OK Corral, only five people were killed. The only reason the OK Corral shoot-out even became famous was that town boosters deliberately overplayed the drama to attract new settlers. They cashed in on the tourist boom by inventing a myth.

The most notorious cow towns in Kansas—Abilene, Dodge City, Ellsworth, Wichita, and Caldwell—did see more violence than similar-sized small towns elsewhere. But not as much as you might think. Records indicate that between 1870 and 1885, there were only 45 murders in those towns."

All that despite the fact that most people had guns.
Click to expand...

Some of the so called legends were pretty despicable people as well.

http://www.darkcanyon.net/gunfighters_of_the_old_west.htm
 
Taichiliberal said:
Your summation is contradicted by the FACT that you had a mass shooting at Ft. Hood....a military base where numerous guns are but a stones throw away...trained people. Then YOU want to assume that a bunch of untrained CWP folk would prevent crimes in a civilian situation? Sorry, but no cop worth his salt is going to condone that train of thought. You can't see the situation being worse? What makes you think the CWP folk are all crack shots in panic situations? And if cops arrive quickly, how are they to determine who is who? Remember, the guy who tackled AZ Congresswoamn Gifford was almost shot by a CWP guy. And if you do a quick google search, you'll find a lot more actual fatalities committed by CWP folk with good intentions. this is why I say think it through.
Click to expand...

So let's say an innocent person is killed. If they saved 4 or 6 other innocent people isn't that more important?

As for the contradiction re: Fort Hood that was one place out of how many? Mass shooters hit places knowing people don't have or are unlikely to have fire arms.
 
Gatorman said:
The day President Ronald Reagan got shot he was surrounded by no less than 30 people all federal law officers or Secret Service and all packing heat to bust. President Reagan got shot anyway. And James Brady is still disabled from his wounds there. Just how many shots were there? All that heat and no one could stop it? Not even expertly trained protective officers? I don't even want some jack leg CWC or CWP anywhere close to me if the shit hits the fan.
Click to expand...

Thats the advantage of the element of surprise, fool.....do you expect EVERY shooting situation is gonna be the same ?
Just like any fight situation, the one that strikes first will without doubt have an advantage.....
You people talk so stupid its an wonder you can walk an talk at the same time.
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well, here we go again. Another nut job in Colorado goes on a planned killing spree with a personal arsenal he easily and legally obtained. Pro-gun control and NRA pundits once again fill the internet, radio, television and print media with the old argument: just how many guns are necessary to obtain total personal protection?

The one aspect of all this has always fascinated me: The idea of allowing any law abiding citizen to qualify and carry a concealed weapon anywhere and everywhere in the U.S.A.

You already had some local ex-politician suggest that if you had a few people strapped via a CWP (concealed weapon permit) in that theatre, this tragedy may have had fewer lives lost.

Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances. Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech...and damned near got the hero of the Arizona shooting killed!

Does this mean we take away everyone's guns? Nope. Does this mean we severely limit weapons to a select few? Nope. But this does mean that we have to take some simple steps to make sure that any joker without a rap sheet can load up for WW3 or some sick Turner Diary fantasy.

Just think it through folks.
Click to expand...

Think about this. Do you ever hear of anyone going into a shooting range and trying this bullshit? Ever wonder why?
 
Taichiliberal said:
Well, here we go again. Another nut job in Colorado goes on a planned killing spree with a personal arsenal he easily and legally obtained. Pro-gun control and NRA pundits once again fill the internet, radio, television and print media with the old argument: just how many guns are necessary to obtain total personal protection?

The one aspect of all this has always fascinated me: The idea of allowing any law abiding citizen to qualify and carry a concealed weapon anywhere and everywhere in the U.S.A.

You already had some local ex-politician suggest that if you had a few people strapped via a CWP (concealed weapon permit) in that theatre, this tragedy may have had fewer lives lost.

Now let's think that one through: the perpetraitor comes into a dark theatre lit only by the big screen, hurls smoke bombs and then opens fire with a semi-automatic. Panic ensues....people screaming, hiding, running, choking. Now let's add to the mix some CWP citizen brandishing his/her weapon while trying to get a bead on the perpetraitor for a clear shot. Maybe they get jumped and beaten by panicked patrons thinking this person is in league with the killer...maybe the CWP person fires off a few rounds and accidently hits people trying to flee...or maybe the CWP person actually hits and kills the perpetraitor, only to be shot by the police who show up at the scene with very little description, or they get beaten to near death by panicked patrons who literally don't know which end is up.

Bottom line: yes, across the country you've had some incidences where a CWP has stopped a crime....that's a rarity and a specific set of circumstances. Having a population strapped 24/7 like the Old West would NOT have bode well at Columbine, or Virginia Tech...and damned near got the hero of the Arizona shooting killed!

Does this mean we take away everyone's guns? Nope. Does this mean we severely limit weapons to a select few? Nope. But this does mean that we have to take some simple steps to make sure that any joker without a rap sheet can load up for WW3 or some sick Turner Diary fantasy.

Just think it through folks.
Click to expand...

I am thinking it through.

This guy could have passed every restriction one could rationally think of .. as could many other gun-toting maniacs.

Why should he have been legally allowed to buy auotmatic and semi-automatic weapons with a clip?
 
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