Condi Rice for VP?

Gatorman said:
And exactly the correct choice, wouldn't you agree, pimp?
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who else would the county's first articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking black guy choose to help him write the storybook?......I think it's ironic that someone who tries to paint the entire right wing of politics as racist would think Obama's best choice for VP was the guy who best illustrated racism in the left wing of politics......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
who else would the county's first articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking black guy choose to help him write the storybook?......I think it's ironic that someone who tries to paint the entire right wing of politics as racist would think Obama's best choice for VP was the guy who best illustrated racism in the left wing of politics......
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You're a very sick and overly imaginative individual, pimp. You should be talking with your spiritual adviser about some of that.
 
Derp Derp said:
So would Colin Powel but he has the same problem that Rice would have. Except that Powel did resign after his first term and he has his famous "Pottery Barn Rules" comment but still he was the one who did a major sales job on the run up to the immoral war in Iraq. That would be a problem.
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It wasn't a problem for Biden who voted for the war. Or Hillary who voted for the war. If you take off your blinders there are wonderful facts for you to acknowledge
 
PostmodernProphet said:
are you deliberately misrepresenting what I said or is it that you don't understand it.......I am not blaming Europeans for the failure of capitalism, I am blaming Americans who want to be like Europeans for fucking up the American economy......
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I appreciate the clarity .. although I disagree that many Americans want to be europeans, or that it has anything to do with the failure of capitalism.
 
blackascoal said:
although I disagree that many Americans want to be europeans
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I refer to those who insist we need a European style health care system, unlimited unemployment compensation and cradle to grave government care at the same time Europe suffers riots resulting from a discontinuance of those unaffordable programs.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I refer to those who insist we need a European style health care system, unlimited unemployment compensation and cradle to grave government care at the same time Europe suffers riots resulting from a discontinuance of those unaffordable programs.....
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Communalism does not come from Europe, AND, most importantly my wise friend, the concept of access to free healthcare is not just confined to Europe .. it's all over the world.

What you see in Europe is the rejection of the capitalist belief that all things must have profit to be gained .. that nothing is more important than profit .. even the health and welfare of your own citizens.

My concern for my fellow citizens doesn't come from me being a socialist. It comes from me being spiritual. My political beliefs followed.

Perhaps you can educate me on why you believe that cradle to grave healthcare is a bad idea for the American people.
 
Gatorman said:
They were clearly lied to. I thought everybody knew that.
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You mean they only believed Saddam ha WMD because Dubya told them so? Are you saying I won't find any quotes of them talking about Saddam's WMD?

So let's review. Liberals think Bush was stupid. Yet according to you he was able to "lie" to our current VP and Secretary of State? That is what you were saying? So how dumb do Hillary and Scranton Joe have to be to let someone as dumb as Dubya pull one over on them?

Sorta makes them unqualified for their current roles dontcha think?

You libtards should really think more carefully before you start throwing out DailyKos talking points
 
blackascoal said:
Communalism does not come from Europe, AND, most importantly my wise friend, the concept of access to free healthcare is not just confined to Europe .. it's all over the world.

What you see in Europe is the rejection of the capitalist belief that all things must have profit to be gained .. that nothing is more important than profit .. even the health and welfare of your own citizens.

My concern for my fellow citizens doesn't come from me being a socialist. It comes from me being spiritual. My political beliefs followed.

Perhaps you can educate me on why you believe that cradle to grave healthcare is a bad idea for the American people.
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Great you care for your fellow citizens. Then use your own money? Why do you need to force others to do it too? To
Satisfy your conscience? What if someone doesn't want to share your spiritual beliefs and doesn't want to help the less fortunate? Shouldn't they be free to do so?
 
FactsRStubborn said:
Great you care for your fellow citizens. Then use your own money? Why do you need to force others to do it too? To
Satisfy your conscience? What if someone doesn't want to share your spiritual beliefs and doesn't want to help the less fortunate? Shouldn't they be free to do so?
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I don't think I've asked you for a dime brother.

This isn't about me .. it's about what is in the best interests of this country and its people.

What you suggest would be analogous to you saying that if I like women, then only I and people like me should treat them fairly. Society doesn't work that way. Free healthcare for all Americans is in the best interests of a better and stronger America. I still await your response on why it would not be.

In fact, so would free access to education .. cradle to grave .. be in the best interests of a better and stronger America.

Where would the money come from?

Let me give you a picture of where ..

Global_Spending_Graph.jpg
 
blackascoal said:
Communalism does not come from Europe, AND, most importantly my wise friend, the concept of access to free healthcare is not just confined to Europe .. it's all over the world....Perhaps you can educate me on why you believe that cradle to grave healthcare is a bad idea for the American people.
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I think Communism was imported to Europe from Asia, but what does this have to do with anything?

It's not a bad idea to have cradle-to-grave anything, certainly health care. It's a great idea, it's just not realistic to expect government to provide it. Government has no means of profit, it can only gain money by taxing, it has no product to sell. This means, it relies on "the evil capitalist machine" to generate the profits and make millionaires into billionaires, in order to gain tax revenue, which the government can then use to pay for things. Without a capitalist economy, the government is forced to find other ways to fund itself, and historically, socialist regimes capture personal property for this, until all property and belongings are owned by the state, the leaders of the state live in lavish luxury with everything they desire. The peasants live in squalor, and wonder what happened to the Utopian dream.

The thing we did here in America that was different, was to establish freedom as our basis for everything. Embracing the idea that all men are created equal, and have the same right to liberty and pursuit of happiness, regardless of their class. Based upon this, we established an open free market system of free enterprise, and unleashed the human spirit through entrepreneurial ideas and individual dreams and aspirations. This idea turned the youngest nation in the world into the greatest nation in terms of power, the world has ever known. The rest of the world coined the phrase "protectionists" to apply to what we did, but the fact is, no nation ever emerges without protectionist policies. Socialists have always sought to destroy Capitalism, because it threatens their flawed ideology, just to exist in it's defiance. The history tends to give Socialists an inferiority complex, so they want to pull a 'Tonya Harding' on Capitalism. That's understandable, I suppose.
 
I realize that I am a little late to this thread, but after the Rice news broke I read several conservative blogs and op-eds. (I will endeavor to find some of them) In those articles, conservatives said that Rice, because she is pro-choice, and remember, in the minds of hard right social conservatives even abortion in the case of rape is wrong, Romney cannot choose Rice because of his once being for abortion before he was against it. (Funny how conservatives said Kerry was unfit because he was for the war before he was against it).

I have heard Susanna Martinez name once in this thread. She is a very savvy politician who has not been the governor of New Mexico for even 2 years yet. She was district attorney here in Las Cruces for 3 terms. She was viewed as a RINO (another term I heard used for Rice this past week) until it became clear that she could defeat Dianne Dennish in the race in New Mexico. I know people who worked for her who have said if Romney chooses her they will expose lots of dirty laundry. I have one friend in particular who has kept inner-office memos where, as DA she said that once someone was indicted she didn't care if the DA on the case found evidence that pointed to innocence, they were to take that person to trial and make them go through the process.

That being said, She might help with the Hispanic vote and the woman vote a little. Personally, I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire and needed putting out.
 
Dixie said:
I think Communism was imported to Europe from Asia, but what does this have to do with anything?
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I said communalism, not communism.

It's not a bad idea to have cradle-to-grave anything, certainly health care. It's a great idea, it's just not realistic to expect government to provide it. Government has no means of profit, it can only gain money by taxing, it has no product to sell. This means, it relies on "the evil capitalist machine" to generate the profits and make millionaires into billionaires, in order to gain tax revenue, which the government can then use to pay for things. Without a capitalist economy, the government is forced to find other ways to fund itself, and historically, socialist regimes capture personal property for this, until all property and belongings are owned by the state, the leaders of the state live in lavish luxury with everything they desire. The peasants live in squalor, and wonder what happened to the Utopian dream.
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Really? That's what happens in all socialist countries? The leaders live in luxury and the common folk live in squalor?

Venezuela? Nope. Socialism has been EXPONENTIALLY beneficial to the quality of life for Venezuelans. Challenge that if you choose.

Cuba? Nope. Socialism has been EXPONENTIALLY beneficial to the quality of life for Cubans. Challange that and compare the days of Batista and the "donkey shows" to the quality of life for Cubans today.

Libya? Nope. Socialism has been EXPONENTIALLY beneficial to the quality of life for Libyans .. who in fact enjoyed the highest quality of life in all of Africa .. higher than that of Russians and Brazilians. Challange that if you choose.

Sweden? Nope.

Canada? France? United Kingdom?

Don't you find it a bit squeamish talking about political leaders who live in luxury .. or even talking about the corruption of money. You live in the United States.

The thing we did here in America that was different, was to establish freedom as our basis for everything. Embracing the idea that all men are created equal, and have the same right to liberty and pursuit of happiness, regardless of their class. Based upon this, we established an open free market system of free enterprise, and unleashed the human spirit through entrepreneurial ideas and individual dreams and aspirations.
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Newsflash: I'm black. Try reading your statement again with the knowledge that I'm black. See if it sounds the same.

This idea turned the youngest nation in the world into the greatest nation in terms of power, the world has ever known.
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The idea of America was brilliant and I believe the Founders were brilliant men. But the genius of their wisdom can often be found in what they did not say. They never mentioned slavery even though it was all around them. They knew we would not always be slaves.

They spoke of a "Creator" not God, because they never intended this as a Christian nation.

They knew that life is dynamic, not static. They knew the Constitution they had written was a living document.

But germaine to this conversation, they knew the danger of corporatism and unfettered capitalism. They warned of it.

The rest of the world coined the phrase "protectionists" to apply to what we did, but the fact is, no nation ever emerges without protectionist policies. Socialists have always sought to destroy Capitalism, because it threatens their flawed ideology, just to exist in it's defiance. The history tends to give Socialists an inferiority complex, so they want to pull a 'Tonya Harding' on Capitalism. That's understandable, I suppose.
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Socialists seek no destruction of capitalism, no destruction of democracy. I am a democratic/socialist.

Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

Rather it is capitalists who fear socialism .. because socialism in its simplest form is people first .. not corporations, not the Robber Barons.

I am yet to hear a rational argument of why the health and welfare of American citizens is not in the best interests of this country.
 
blackascoal said:
What you see in Europe is the rejection of the capitalist belief that all things must have profit to be gained
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and what I see in Europe is riots because coming back from a rejection of capitalism is painful, though necessary......moving toward a European system while they are moving away from it demonstrates our lack of vision........

blackascoal said:
Perhaps you can educate me on why you believe that cradle to grave healthcare is a bad idea for the American people.
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do you agree that Europe is discovering that it is unsustainable?......
 
U.S. society has been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil by capitalists, for whom socialism limits the size of their exploitable market. It goes no deeper than that.
 
Socrtease said:
I realize that I am a little late to this thread, but after the Rice news broke I read several conservative blogs and op-eds. (I will endeavor to find some of them) In those articles, conservatives said that Rice, because she is pro-choice, and remember, in the minds of hard right social conservatives even abortion in the case of rape is wrong, Romney cannot choose Rice because of his once being for abortion before he was against it. (Funny how conservatives said Kerry was unfit because he was for the war before he was against it).

I have heard Susanna Martinez name once in this thread. She is a very savvy politician who has not been the governor of New Mexico for even 2 years yet. She was district attorney here in Las Cruces for 3 terms. She was viewed as a RINO (another term I heard used for Rice this past week) until it became clear that she could defeat Dianne Dennish in the race in New Mexico. I know people who worked for her who have said if Romney chooses her they will expose lots of dirty laundry. I have one friend in particular who has kept inner-office memos where, as DA she said that once someone was indicted she didn't care if the DA on the case found evidence that pointed to innocence, they were to take that person to trial and make them go through the process.

That being said, She might help with the Hispanic vote and the woman vote a little. Personally, I wouldn't piss on her if she were on fire and needed putting out.
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They've also mentioned the woman Sen from NH, Kelly Ayotte ...she's French-Canadian, if that means anything. ;)

I don't think it will be her, because she had some pretty high-profile death penalty cases as DA, and the left would LOVE to dive into all that.

This is actually another "reason" I think Rice makes a perfectly excellent pick... she has no real political baggage. Iraq and Bush... that's about it.

I think Rice might actually have the intelligence to articulate a 'moderate' position on the abortion issue, in a way that doesn't offend the far-right. As I said, I am as staunchly pro-life as anyone, but I can see there is a case for why the medical procedure of abortion shouldn't be banned or made illegal. And I think that is kind of what I am hearing from Rice, in the interview I saw. I think most intelligent rational and reasonable Americans agree with this, whether they favor abortion or not. It is more a matter of degree, at where do we draw the line? Rice is saying, we can have this debate, we can talk about preventing late-term abortion, we can discuss the prospects of stem-cell research, but we have to be willing to reach each other in a unified way on this subject first. There is more to be gained in working together as reasonable people, than being pitted against each other as mortal enemies for life.

The more I think about Rice being VP, the more I like the idea. I think Rice could be the 'bridge' for social and libertarian conservatives in the party. Her story and credentials are amazing, and whether she is ultimately the pick or not, Condoleeza Rice will go down in history as one of the most influential black women of our time. Like I have pointed out, the ONLY real 'negative' on her, is the war in Iraq/Bush... and I think this has Karl Rove written all over it... Clever X2!
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and what I see in Europe is riots because coming back from a rejection of capitalism is painful, though necessary......moving toward a European system while they are moving away from it demonstrates our lack of vision........
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Patriotism beyond saluting a flag is not confined to europe. Continuing on our course of WAR and more WARS for profit is what bankrupts this nation. Our cities crumble along with our infrastructure and the jobs take a flight overseas. And you think that's Europes fault?

do you agree that Europe is discovering that it is unsustainable?......
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No, I do not. What they are discovering are misplaced priorities .. the same misplaced priorities that we have here.

Cuba has been under an embargo for 12 US presidents .. more than 40 years. Yet, they have so many doctors that they export them. They have free access to healthcare and education for all their citizens .. AND, they have one of the best healthcare systems in the world. They continue to make new discoveries and solutions to health issues that are being used all over the world.

No, I do not agree with your assessment.
 
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