SPIN METER:
- Thread starter USFREEDOM911
- Start date
Do you mean the rich? I wonder if the rich pay insurance companies for coverage or if they just pay cash?
Many just pay cash... However, the idea that they are freeloading is funny. I remember when this was supposed to cover people who were poor... suddenly everybody understands the poor were already covered and it is those "freeloading" people who can afford it but choose against it that must be forced into compliance.
The mandate isn't about covering the poor and never was. The mandate is the flip side of the ban on recessions, the ban on denials based on pre-existing conditions, and the ban of lifetime and annual coverage limits. It's about getting healthy people to buy insurance and to expand the risk pool on the healthy end to offset the expansion of the risk pool on the unhealthy end.
The exchanges and subsidies are about covering the poor and lower income folks.
Again, poor and lower income folks were already covered. This has never been about covering the poor, although it seemed that was the argument when it was being passed.
No, poor and lower income folks were not already covered. But that's a separate discussion that has nothing to do with the mandate.
Yeah, because Medicare didn't cover them... seriously. They are covered. Even before this was passed the poor were covered.
However, I'm not particularly against the mandate idea... It isn't making me all "angry"... I am against adding to our debt, and am mostly hacked that this doesn't fix cost of care which was the problem, it simply treats a symptom.
You vastly overestimate the scope and breadth of Medicaid (not Medicare).
Well, you seemed confused on the purpose of the mandate. It's purpose is not to extend coverage to poor and lower income folks, which is what you seemed to suggest.
apple0154
MEOW
The "poor" according to a government chart. A lower middle class family man hit with a $15,000 or $20,000 medical bill is going to find himself between a rock and and hard place. As Obama has continually stated an illness or injury should not bankrupt a person. Statistics show many people live paycheck to paycheck. They are not "officially poor" but a serious medical procedure will ruin them.
That's because ObamaCare is a start towards government medical which does save enormous amounts of money as proven by every country that has government medical. No exception. Not one country with government medical pays anywhere near what medical care costs in the US. A good win for Obama will see government care steered in the
Did you read your own post? This is quite possibly the stupidest thing you have ever written.
The leaders of the GOP are highly educated scheming corporatists buying government. Those who vote for them are redneck backwoods hicks who are so stupid that they vote against their own best interests. Get it?
how is it different than say... a tax credit for your kids? or your mortgage? If I don't have kids, I don't get that tax credit, but no one is complaining that I'm being forced to have children. Or that I'm being assessed a massive tax increase. If I don't have them, fine..I just a pay more at the end of the year than my neighbor who has 2.
if you don't have health insurance, you don't get the tax credit... if you do have it, you get the tax credit.
what's the difference?
apple0154
MEOW
Except this woman wasn't poor enough so she died.
(Excerpt) Miller said her sister was uninsured when she was diagnosed with colon cancer. Hines, a single mother working to support two young sons, applied for Medicaid but was told she did not meet the program's financial requirements. Hines soon began a new job where she was given employer-sponsored health care coverage, but as a new employee she needed to be present in the workplace, which ultimately interfered with her cancer treatment......
"We needed that desperately," Miller continued. "I know what it's like to watch somebody that you love die from a disease that had they been able to have health care [coverage], they could still be here. Nobody should ever have to go through that. Her sons should not have to suffer without their mother."(End) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...bama-health-care_n_1652714.html?ncid=webmail1
A single mother raising two kids who couldn't afford health insurance died in the richest country on the planet. Does it get any more disgusting?
You're confused, it was what was used to get people to buy into Obamatax.
Which behavior are they trying to force you into by giving a tax credit for your kids? (Another question you should ask yourself is: Does this person think we should have credits for this...)
One insists you act a certain way, the other doesn't. Punishment taxes are fun. Do you think that the government is charging an extra tax to those who don't have kids or are they giving a credit so they can afford more food? Do you believe the government is telling you that you must have kids?
You said:
That's just wrong. The mandate was never about covering people who were poor. That's what the exchanges/subsidies and Medicaid expansion were all about.
Right... Currently the argument is about rich "freeloaders" when before the argument was about the "poor" I remember that... Still do.
Get those dirty "freeloaders"... It seems to be the only option for Obama... Try to build resentment and envy then tell people that they are going to "stick it to" whomever you tried to build resentment towards.
You're conflating the individual mandate and the Affordable Care Act. The individual mandate is only a small part of the Affordable Care Act. It isn't the whole shebang.
The ACA overall is (in part) about ensuring access to healthcare for poor and low income people, but the individual mandate isn't the mechanism by which it achieves that goal. That's the exchanges/subsidies and Medicaid expansion.
So, no, the individual mandate was never ever ever about the poor and, like the same thing we have here in MA, was always about free riders and expanding the risk pool on the healthy end.
Now, of course you can't dispute any of this so you resort to your usual bullshit faux quotes, generalities and personal projections. Par for the course, really.
you don't have to buy a car.. and you don't HAVE to buy health insurance.. but you won't get a credit at the end of the year if you don't.
and even if you own a car,you also don't HAVE to buy auto insurance... but when you get caught not having it,you'll get a fine.. same with medical insurance, you don' HAVE to buy it, but when you get caught not having it, you'll get a fine... or a tax, whichever suits you...
and none of that.. will end the United States as we know it.
Hyperbole hyperbole, wherefore art thou..Hyperbole.
Deny thy father and refuse thy name;
you are 'basically' the opposite of being threatening with death.. threatening with death is the system we are currently under.. having healthcare would actually prevent death..
basically..
a 7 year old is dx'd with leukemia, his parents have no healthcare, nor any money... but they make $1000 more a month than medicaid allows them to make.. who pays for his treatment? or do we just say "sorry.. Go to pink-o-commie France if you want healthcare"
a 28 year old woman notices a lump under her arm.. but doesn't have healthcare so she lets it go... 2 years later, in her prime 'worker bee' years, she's dx'd with end stage breast cancer and her 'end of life' costs are INSANELY high.. she still gets the care because it's what we do..besides the loss of the worker, besides the loss to her parents, who pays for her care?
No, not everyone owns a car..so not everyone has to be buy health insurance.. BUT every one of us WILL need a doctor, or many, one day or for many months.. in our lifetime... what would you do? not allow anyone the benefit of medical services unless they had a check ready? How do you fix what's ailing us?
this has nothing to with 'if you can't do the time".. because 'sick' doesn't care what laws you follow, or how well you eat or exercise, it doesn't care what color you are or how much money you have.. it doesn't care whether you're born in the United States or China..
but if you're born in China, you get treated... the United States? eh, we lose our fucking mind at the thought..