SCOTUS deals biggest blow to Liberalism in 100 years!

USFREEDOM911 said:
Just curious; but let's say that everyone that is above the "poor" line gets insurance, where is the money going to come from, to pay for those that fall below the "poor" line?
Click to expand...

Out of interest I wonder how much crime is as a result of people stealing to pay for basic medicines for themselves and their families?
 
Dixie said:
In spite of giddy Liberals dancing in the streets today, the ruling of the Supreme Court on Obamacare is actually one of the biggest defeats of Liberalism in 100 years. Roberts has brilliantly played the long game here, and the Liberals have no idea of what has just happened. While they celebrate this seeming 'victory' for something they really really wanted, they fail to realize the consequences of this ruling.

The most important aspect, is the rejection of Liberals argument that the Federal government can do things like this under the commerce clause. That argument was refuted by the court, and actually defines the limits to the commerce clause. Something the Liberals have often used to pass more and more government intrusion into our lives. So that whole 'commerce clause' argument ends as of today. Never again, can we have Liberals trot out a liberal idea and cite the commerce clause as their basis for authority. This is HUGE, and a HUGE win for conservative small government philosophy.

The next thing, is the finding by the court this has to be a TAX. Obama has argued it's not a tax, and actually ran on a promise to not increase taxes on those making under $200k.... that's out the window now... We just had the largest tax increase in human history... thanks to Obama! The funding can not come from Medicare, which also means, the CBO will have to re-score Obamacare, and it will dramatically effect the budget deficit. Again, something Obama and the Liberals often used as a shield, is gone. They were able to tell us this was not going to increase the debt, it was going to actually reduce the debt, according to proponents... well now, it's going to necessarily increase the debt, because it can't be paid for with Medicare funds.

Finally, it is important to note, this doesn't seal the fate of Obamacare. If the court had gone the other way, it would have sealed the fate of Obamacare for certain, but in upholding the law, it doesn't solidify the law itself, it can still be repealed. The Roberts ruling only makes the 2012 elections THAT much more important. Obama will have to defend his largest tax increase in history, and the challengers still get to run on repeal of Obamacare.

Let's summarize...

Commerce clause can be used to enable federal expansion of power.... GONE! Never again can it be used by Liberals!
Obamacare is not a TAX... GONE! Making Obama a LIAR by giving us the largest tax increase in history.
Obamacare Reduces the Deficit.... GONE! Can't be paid for with Medicare... HAS to INCREASE the deficit.

In the short term, I would have loved to have seen the court strike down Obamacare, and I believe they should have done so. But if the court were going to find in favor of it, there isn't much of a better scenario than this, as a constitutional conservative. The legal barriers Roberts has now placed on future Congresses is monumental, and gives us a commerce clause definition that has been lacking for the past 100 years. It is a victory for states rights as well, and these are the kind of fundamental things that are being overlooked in the decision. But I don't blame pinheads... they needed something "good" to lift their spirits.
Click to expand...

:rofl2: Give you lemons and you'll make lemonade. LOL, Dix. That was funny. I am glad to see you're happy, though. Now everyone is happy. You got what you wanted and everyone else got health insurance. It's a win-win situation. Your only duty now as a good Conservative is to vote for Obama so he'll bring more court cases and the Supreme Court can continue to limit clauses and strengthen State's rights.

You're a wise man, Dix. ;)
 
As he mentioned in his speech, this may well cost the President the election. He knows that!

What he has done however, along with a century of warriors (republicans, democrats, liberals, and conservatives) fighting for it, is set the nation on a permenant path after centuries of healthcare stalemate.
 
Dixie said:
And I think the court appropriately ruled Congress should have the ability to do.

That's FINE! Obamacare would have NEVER passed, had it been presented as this huge unacceptable tax increase on everyone! It won't survive as such, either. The ONLY way they managed to get this monstrosity passed in Congress, was to HIDE behind the commerce clause, and steal money from Medicare to make it appear they weren't spending money to do it. The SCOTUS just put an abrupt END to that, forever! From this day forward, things like Obamacare, will have to stand on the merit of being a new tax, and will have to be paid for accordingly. This is a tremendous victory for constitutional constructionists.
Click to expand...

Regardless, you have to admit it was well played by the Dems because they did get it passed and the court has upheld it. Slipped that one right by the Repubs, huh. :D
 
apple0154 said:
:rofl2: Give you lemons and you'll make lemonade. LOL, Dix. That was funny. I am glad to see you're happy, though. Now everyone is happy. You got what you wanted and everyone else got health insurance. It's a win-win situation. Your only duty now as a good Conservative is to vote for Obama so he'll bring more court cases and the Supreme Court can continue to limit clauses and strengthen State's rights.

You're a wise man, Dix. ;)
Click to expand...

the only way you can stop us is to stop giving us lemons.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
most crime in the US involves people stealing to self-medicate.....
Click to expand...

I pointed this out earlier and I am glad that you agree. One of the many benefits of universal healthcare is reducing crime especially stealing. Of course if you also had clean needle schemes and detox programmes as well then you might start to reduce drug abuse. I would also advocate legalising all drugs which would piss off the Colombian drug cartels and the DEA but would cut the legs off at the knees of the vast black economy in illicit drugs.
 
Jarod said:
As he mentioned in his speech, this may well cost the President the election. He knows that!

What he has done however, along with a century of warriors (republicans, democrats, liberals, and conservatives) fighting for it, is set the nation on a permenant path after centuries of healthcare stalemate.
Click to expand...

apple0154 said:
Regardless, you have to admit it was well played by the Dems because they did get it passed and the court has upheld it. Slipped that one right by the Repubs, huh. :D
Click to expand...

Here's another aspect to Thursday's ruling, that I think you guys are missing. Since Obamacare is now officially a "tax" ...it means that ANY future Congress can repeal it, as a tax. Health care coverage was NOT determined to be a "right" by the court, and it can't be paid for through appropriations made for other programs, or included in general spending because the court found, it's not covered under the commerce clause.... it's a tax. It can be repealed, and it will be.
 
Dixie said:
Here's another aspect to Thursday's ruling, that I think you guys are missing. Since Obamacare is now officially a "tax" ...it means that ANY future Congress can repeal it, as a tax. Health care coverage was NOT determined to be a "right" by the court, and it can't be paid for through appropriations made for other programs, or included in general spending because the court found, it's not covered under the commerce clause.... it's a tax. It can be repealed, and it will be.
Click to expand...
you are so stupid, only the "punishment" provision of the mandate is a tax. Please read the opinion before you make more of a fool of yourself!
 
Dixie said:
Here's another aspect to Thursday's ruling, that I think you guys are missing. Since Obamacare is now officially a "tax" ...it means that ANY future Congress can repeal it, as a tax. Health care coverage was NOT determined to be a "right" by the court, and it can't be paid for through appropriations made for other programs, or included in general spending because the court found, it's not covered under the commerce clause.... it's a tax. It can be repealed, and it will be.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is a chance it will get repealed. I doubt they'll even try, even if Romney wins.
 
lets say they do try.....why don't you think they would succeed?.....

they have the House, they would have the presidency, chances are they will have at least 50 in the Senate....the majority of Americans want it repealed......what would stop it?.....
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lets say they do try.....why don't you think they would succeed?.....
Click to expand...

It will become too entrenched, in a pretty short period of time.

An extreme example is social security. No one would even dare suggest actually taking it away now - tweaking/revamping maybe, but not taking it away.

I think even by this fall, we won't hear Romney talking too much about it.
 
Onceler said:
It will become too entrenched, in a pretty short period of time.

An extreme example is social security. No one would even dare suggest actually taking it away now - tweaking/revamping maybe, but not taking it away.

I think even by this fall, we won't hear Romney talking too much about it.
Click to expand...

"entrenched"?.....by January?....it hasn't even gone into effect yet, and most of it doesn't until 2014......and as I recall he talked about it yesterday, saying repealing it will be the first thing he does......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
lets say they do try.....why don't you think they would succeed?.....

they have the House, they would have the presidency, chances are they will have at least 50 in the Senate....the majority of Americans want it repealed......what would stop it?.....
Click to expand...
I'm fairly sure they will need a supermajority!
 
PostmodernProphet said:
"entrenched"?.....by January?....it hasn't even gone into effect yet, and most of it doesn't until 2014......and as I recall he talked about it yesterday, saying repealing it will be the first thing he does......
Click to expand...

It's the perception. Most people either are or know someone who is uninsured, and who will benefit greatly from this law.

I could be wrong, but as I said on a thread earlier today, I think Romney's internal polling will tell him not to go near it this fall if he wants independents. If he wants to make it a base-turnout kind of election, he might continue to hammer away at it....
 
Jarod said:
I'm fairly sure they will need a supermajority!
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure a supermajority is only needed to INCREASE taxes, not abolish them.

Still, with Obamacare now being deemed "a tax" and not a fundamental right the government can regulate under the commerce clause, it would be difficult to find enough votes to avoid a supermajority call for repeal. Many of the Democrat votes used to pass the bill, were under the impression this was budget-neutral and didn't increase the debt. That's off the table, since now it can't be paid for with Medicare. President Obama himself, said he would not sign it into law if it increased the deficit... well, guess what the court ruling will cause it to necessarily do?

All along, from the very get-go, the idea was... pass this thing... let it stand for a few years, and then no one will be able to get rid of it! Well guess what? That's not going to happen this time! America REJECTS this! They don't want it! A good sizable chunk of them, are energized and ready to go to the mat over this, and plan to turn out in droves to vote in November. Now we'll just have to wait and see how that turns out, but I wouldn't go getting too cocky about this, if I were you. Chances are, Obamacare as we know it, is DONE!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top