Is it OK to pay equally-qualified women less than men for the same work?

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/why-are-female-doctors-paid-less-t

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • No

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3
\\\legiontroll/// wishes he had a job so he could complain about pay

that said....what facts was this study based on? what did they "study"?
 
What are their specialties? Not all specialties are paid the same.

Do they mix in plastic surgeons with that mess? They make a bunch, usually more than other doctors and for some reason seem to be mostly male. (I'm not sure most are, but it sure seems that way).

Anyway, some of this may be because of their specialty...
 
There is NO male-female wage gap. (based on discrimination)

Source: Wall Street Journal (2011) - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704415104576250672504707048.html

- The Department of Labor's Time Use survey shows that full-time working women spend an average of 8.01 hours per day on the job, compared to 8.75 hours for full-time working men. One would expect that someone who works 9% more would also earn more. This one fact alone accounts for more than a third of the wage gap.

- Women gravitate toward jobs with fewer risks, more comfortable conditions, regular hours, more personal fulfillment and greater flexibility. Simply put, many women—not all, but enough to have a big impact on the statistics—are willing to trade higher pay for other desirable job characteristics. Men, by contrast, often take on jobs that involve physical labor, outdoor work, overnight shifts and dangerous conditions (which is also why men suffer the overwhelming majority of injuries and deaths at the workplace). They put up with these unpleasant factors so that they can earn more.

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Recent studies have shown that the wage gap shrinks—or even reverses—when relevant factors are taken into account and comparisons are made between men and women in similar circumstances. In a 2010 study of single, childless urban workers between the ages of 22 and 30, the research firm Reach Advisors found that women earned an average of 8% more than their male counterparts.
 
But in answer to the above question, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree that both genders, doing the same job, for the same amount of hours, should be paid differently. So we entered this thread with a strawman.
 
There is NO male-female wage gap. (based on discrimination)

Wasn't Romney was a great governor, according to you? That's why he served two highly-successful terms...oh, wait...


Would that be Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal?

- The Department of Labor's Time Use survey shows that full-time working women spend an average of 8.01 hours per day on the job, compared to 8.75 hours for full-time working men. One would expect that someone who works 9% more would also earn more...

Based on hourly wages, or salary?

- Women gravitate toward jobs with fewer risks, more comfortable conditions, regular hours, more personal fulfillment and greater flexibility. Simply put, many women—not all, but enough to have a big impact on the statistics—are willing to trade higher pay for other desirable job characteristics. Men, by contrast, often take on jobs that involve physical labor, outdoor work, overnight shifts and dangerous conditions (which is also why men suffer the overwhelming majority of injuries and deaths at the workplace). They put up with these unpleasant factors so that they can earn more.

Really? So a lumberjack or a trawler fisherman earn more than a hedge fund manager?

- Recent studies have shown that the wage gap shrinks—or even reverses—when relevant factors are taken into account and comparisons are made between men and women in similar circumstances. In a 2010 study of single, childless urban workers between the ages of 22 and 30, the research firm Reach Advisors found that women earned an average of 8% more than their male counterparts.

Let's see that study, please. And where are the rest? "Studies" is plural, isn't it?
 
Wasn't Romney was a great governor, according to you? That's why he served two highly-successful terms...oh, wait...

romney chose not to run again. he ran for president in 2008


Would that be Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal?

ad hominem

Really? So a lumberjack or a trawler fisherman earn more than a hedge fund manager?

strawman. do you know what an average is?


Let's see that study, please. And where are the rest? "Studies" is plural, isn't it?

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/09/01/cities-where-women-outearn-male-counterparts/

Nice retort, by the way.
 
Although additional research in this area is clearly needed, this study leads to the unambiguous
conclusion that the differences in the compensation of men and women are the result of a
multitude of factors and that the raw wage gap should not be used as the basis to justify
corrective action. Indeed, there may be nothing to correct. The differences in raw wages may be
almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

- the biased department of labor
 
Lets look at this very issue, from another perspective......


YOU need a special job done at your home. Worker-women A says she will do the work for $2000 and you go to Repairman B for a new estimate....
Repairman B look it over and says he will do the EXACT SAME WORK for $1500......5 other estimates are also $2000

Who do you give the job to......????

Is it right for you to pay the man less for the EXACT SAME WORK.....Why don't YOU PAY equal pay for equal work.....

You're gonna tell us "well, its different".......than look again, its not different, its just more personal.
 
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they should not be they are

Are they? Why not break out the study by specialty? Show us what each makes within each specialty? Instead we are simply told that they 'adjusted' for specialties and the result was 12k. I for one would love to see how they calculated the adjustment.
 
What are their specialties? Not all specialties are paid the same. Do they mix in plastic surgeons with that mess? They make a bunch, usually more than other doctors and for some reason seem to be mostly male. (I'm not sure most are, but it sure seems that way). Anyway, some of this may be because of their specialty...

Some of the differences are explained by differences in medical specialty, with men going into fields that traditionally pay more.

For instance, studies show men are more likely to choose cardiology, which typically pays high amounts, while women are more likely to opt for the less-lucrative pediatrics.

When those differences were factored in, the overall pay gap between men and women was about $12,000, the researchers said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...d-less-than-male-counterparts/article4257695/
 
But in answer to the above question, I don't think anyone on this board would disagree that both genders, doing the same job, for the same amount of hours, should be paid differently. So we entered this thread with a strawman.

Yet somebody voted against your assertion, so you were wrong, weren't you?
 
Are they? Why not break out the study by specialty? Show us what each makes within each specialty? Instead we are simply told that they 'adjusted' for specialties and the result was 12k. I for one would love to see how they calculated the adjustment.

The researchers surveyed about 800 doctors who had received competitive grants early in their careers from the U.S. National Institutes of Health, allowing researchers to examine a pool of similarly motivated and talented physicians.

The results showed that, on average, male doctors earned about $200,400 a year, while female physicians earned about $167,600.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...d-less-than-male-counterparts/article4257695/

U-M study considers specialty, productivity, many other factors; Found gender disparity still exists




This is Reshma Jagsi, M.D., D.Phil.


ANN ARBOR, Mich. — Male doctors make more money than their female counterparts, even when factoring in medical specialty, title, work hours, productivity and a host of other factors, according to a comprehensive new analysis from researchers at the University of Michigan Health System and Duke University.


Results of the study appear in the June 13 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.


"The gender pay disparity we found in this highly talented and select group of physicians was sobering," says lead study author Reshma Jagsi, M.D., D.Phil., associate professor of radiation oncology at the University of Michigan Medical School.


The researchers surveyed 800 physicians who had received a highly competitive early career research grant from the National Institutes of Health in 2000-2003.

By focusing on these grants, the researchers narrowed the pool to an extremely select, highly motivated, highly talented group of physicians who are involved in academic medicine.

The physicians were surveyed about a decade after receiving these grants, putting them now mid-career.


"People point to a lot of possible reasons for pay disparities, so we examined a population in which you would be least likely to pick up gender differences in salary. After we adjusted for a host of factors that could explain pay differences, we unmasked a pay disparity of $12,001 a year, or more than $350,000 over a career," Jagsi says.


The survey included 39 questions covering age, medical specialty, marital status, work hours, time spent in research, number of peer-reviewed publications, location, race, additional grants, leadership roles and other degrees.


Overall, the average annual salary was $200,422 for men and $167,669 for women, a difference of $32,764.

Medical specialty was the biggest driver of salary difference.

When the researchers factored that in, the men made $17,874 more.

When the researchers adjusted for all factors, the gap was $12,001.


Spreading this out over 30 years, women would earn over $350,000 less than their similar male colleagues by the end of their career.


"To see that men and women doing similar work are paid quite differently in this cream-of-the-crop sample is both surprising and disturbing. I hope these findings will help inform policy discussions on how to address these disparities and ensure equal pay for men and women who are performing equal work," says Jagsi, who is also a Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Physician Faculty Scholar.


Senior author Peter Ubel, M.D., professor at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and its Sanford School of Public Policy, cautions against attributing the salary difference to conscious discrimination.


"For all we know, women are paid less in part because they don't negotiate as assertively as men, or because their spouse's jobs make it harder for them to entertain competing job offers. Nevertheless, whatever the reason for the salary disparity, academic medical centers should work to pay more fairly. A person's salary should not depend upon whether they have a Y chromosome," Ubel says.


The researchers have been awarded a new grant that will allow them to look at whether gender differences in salary were due to initial starting salaries or whether they accumulated over time.


###​


Additional authors: Kent A. Griffith, M.S.; Abigail Stewart, Ph.D.; Dana Sambuco, M.S.; and Rochelle DeCastro, M.S., all from U-M


Funding: Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, University of Michigan Office of the Vice President for Research, and National Institutes of Health



Reference: Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 307, No. 22, pp. 2410-2417, June 13, 2012

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-06/uomh-mdm060712.php
 
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