is citizens united the end of the republic as we knew it

Don Quixote

Don Quixote

cancer survivor
Contributor
imo, yes

how can any democratic institutions survive the massive amounts of cash that the wealthy can contribute?

perhaps the voters will learn to ignore the ever more sophisticated ads bought by super pacs

it is given that federal offices will be bought by billionaires but how deep will their contributions reach into state offices - i think that they will buy governors and state legislators thereby getting whatever laws are need for the contributors interests

the other aspect about the contributions is that they can be anonymous thereby concealing just who is attacking a candidate - scotus has yet to rule on this aspect and we can only hope that congress will correct the anonymous provisions of contribution laws, but i am not holding my breath

the only thing that might save us is a constitutional amendment and the window for that is closing - not only to get it through congress but through the state legislatures

however, i think the time for despair is at hand and the voices of the people will be drowned out by a sea of cash
 
what do you think happens with increased centralization? power needs to be split up, or we'll be doomed to tyranny.
 
Don Quixote said:
imo, yes

how can any democratic institutions survive the massive amounts of cash that the wealthy can contribute?

perhaps the voters will learn to ignore the ever more sophisticated ads bought by super pacs

it is given that federal offices will be bought by billionaires but how deep will their contributions reach into state offices - i think that they will buy governors and state legislators thereby getting whatever laws are need for the contributors interests

the other aspect about the contributions is that they can be anonymous thereby concealing just who is attacking a candidate - scotus has yet to rule on this aspect and we can only hope that congress will correct the anonymous provisions of contribution laws, but i am not holding my breath

the only thing that might save us is a constitutional amendment and the window for that is closing - not only to get it through congress but through the state legislatures

however, i think the time for despair is at hand and the voices of the people will be drowned out by a sea of cash
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I disagree with you Don. I believe the SCOTUS ruled appropriately in Citizens, because it was a first amendment issue. The case actually came about as a result of Campaign Finance Reform laws, prior to which, corporations involved in politics was very common. It's been the case for many years, that wealthy can contribute massive amounts of cash through corporations or foundations, and we have always survived. But Citizens United was not a rich person trying to influence politics with cash, it was a privately-owned corporation of many individuals. They weren't trying to buy governors or senators, they were trying to sell a video documentary about Hillary Clinton. The actual case itself, was about whether Citizens had first amendment rights to free speech, like individuals. The courts found they did, because although they were a 'corporation', they were made up of individuals.

I can't believe you are so concerned about undue influence, when the Democrats and Obama are so in the pocket of the unions. How much influence and political power do unions get to buy? Are you alright with that? Does it not bother you that when the head of the teamsters says "Jump!" Biden and Obama ask "How high?" Or what about George Soros, who has basically funded the liberal agenda for the past decade? Is that okay in your book? For ONE MAN to have such influence over the Democrat Party?
 
Don, here is what I will propose to you for a campaign finance reform:

We eliminate ALL sources of contribution other than individual donations of $1k or less. No PACs, unions, or 527s. No more MoveOn.org. No more Citizen's United. No George Soros, no Koch Brothers. Just individual donors of $1k or less, that's IT! For the record, when Dick Army suggested this idea during the CFR debates, it was soundly rejected by Democrats.

You see, Democrats don't really want to reform campaign finance, unless they can manipulate the reform so that Democrats can do whatever they please, and Republicans have to jump through hoops, and I just don't think most Republicans want to go along with that plan. We have a Constitutional right to free political speech, and it's very important. When we start tinkering around with it, people get nervous. What happens when you've successfully eliminated all the 'undue influence' you can find? Who fills that void? Unaffiliated propaganda organizations who aren't accountable to anyone, much less the candidate? If they win elections through spreading untrue propaganda and lies, is that somehow BETTER than campaigns being financed on the record by particular groups who share common interests?
 
Righties prefer to piss and moan about Roe vs Wade, don't they?
 
Yes...they stand in front of the cameras and rage "jobs, jobs, jobs" but refuse to allow anything to come to a vote on the jobs bill last October...then they go into chamber and vote on yet another anti-abortion bill that they know can't pass....nothing like getting paid to do nothing then claiming the government is the problem. These bullshit artists are treasonous in my view.
 
Haiku said:
Yes...they stand in front of the cameras and rage "jobs, jobs, jobs" but refuse to allow anything to come to a vote on the jobs bill last October...then they go into chamber and vote on yet another anti-abortion bill that they know can't pass....nothing like getting paid to do nothing then claiming the government is the problem. These bullshit artists are treasonous in my view.
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Time to clean the House?

boehner-with-ryan-cantor.png
 
Ah yes those evil corporations, but that has not stopped the unions from spending vast amounts of money on getting democrat politicians elected. I have yet to see one democrat politician refuse union money or tell them to stop.
 
Why should they. Now that there is no limit to spending (and even before there were lots of dirty tricks and dirty money on the right) there were three organizations with enough cash to make a difference on the left...6, all corporate money, on the right. So now if they can get rid of unions there won't be any ability to match funds or fight back...what a coincidence!
 
RazorX said:
Ah yes those evil corporations, but that has not stopped the unions from spending vast amounts of money on getting democrat politicians elected. I have yet to see one democrat politician refuse union money or tell them to stop.
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Are unions people, too?

Is union money speech?
 
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