ZenMode
Well-known member
According to who?
Who gets into heaven
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
I don't think baptism is a requirement mentioned anywhere in the Bible
You're invoking an objective and universal standard of justice and righteousness, and you believe it exists.
Otherwise, justice and righteousness are just relative terms that depend on opinion and culture.
Freddy Figbottom
Was it me?
your mama.
ZenMode
Well-known member
Mark 16:16: "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned".
Acts 2:38: Peter tells people to "Repent and be baptized... for the forgiveness of your sins".
1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you... as an appeal to God for a good conscience".
Maybe, but surely we can agree that eating shellfish and clothing with different materials is a pretty silly measurement.
Freddy Figbottom
Was it me?
it does exist.
its reciprocity and empathy, and cooperation.
the golden rule.
no. cooperation, peace and mutual gain is clearly different that division, war, and loss.
that's the golden rule.
high trust societies always need something like the golden rule.
the golden rule makes Christianity, not baptism.
You're right about those quotes, but it's an open question in Christianity if baptism is necessary for salvation. Some babies die before they are baptized, and some churches only practice adult baptism. Some people convert on their death bed.
Belief in the death, resurrection, and saving grace of Christ is the minimum to be a Christian.
The ritual, civil, ceremonial, cleanliness, and sacrificial laws of Moses are not moral laws and do not mark one out as a righteous person. They mark one out as a culturally Torah-observant Jew.
So what objective universal standard of morality were you smuggling into your worldview to define who deserves spiritual liberation?
ZenMode
Well-known member
Sure. People often marginalize things in the Bible they don't want to believe because it doesn't "feel" right or doesn't make sensem
Eating shellfish and wearing clothing made of two different fabrics is a sin according to the Bible. You don't think suns are a statement about what is or isn't moral?
I don't have one, I'm just saying that Bible could be a lot more useful if it made more sense. I mean, killing your neighbor for working on Saturday, killing your new wife if she's not a virgin and killing people for witchcraft all seem a little Unconstructive, don't they?
Christians have never been required to follow the ritual and ceremonial laws of Torah. If you hate the ceremonial laws of Torah, find a Jewish neighbor or friend to harangue about it. Those aren't laws about morality. Nobody on the planet today think a clothing fabric makes you righteous.
So even though you clearly insinuated there is an objective and universal standard of righteousness people should be judged on, you are repeatedly refusing to say what this standard is, or from where you are smuggling it into your worldview.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Culture and religious traditions are one thing, but what I find most disgusting are the hypocrites; the self-labeled Christian who cherry-picks the Bible about homosexuals while munching on a pulled-pork BBQ sandwich with his mistress while his wife watches the kids at home and refuses to help his mother-in-law pay her electric bill saying "That God damn bitch should have planned ahead better!".
Yes! Like cherry picking a couple isolated statements about homosexuality, but then basically ignoring the entire Sermon on the Mount and the golden rule.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
Absolutely. Every single MAGAt is a Christian in name, but never in actions.