What did Jordan Neely do?

[Damocles]

He strangled him for 15 minutes and would not stop even though people were telling him he was killing him. He was deliberately killing him. If he was a combat expert as you claim, he knew what the end would be. You are wrong again.

You again say I claimed something I have not. You response is to build the same weak strawman over again. You clearly have no urge to participate in the conversation we are having, you want to participate in a different conversation.... If you want to argue with someone making that claim so you can "win" in your small mind, then by all means find someone making that claim.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He strangled him for 15 minutes and would not stop even though people were telling him he was killing him. He was deliberately killing him. If he was a combat expert as you claim, he knew what the end would be. You are wrong again.

Are you saying Neely was still for 15 minutes while Penny had him in a choke hold or are you saying they were struggling for 15 minutes? How long did Penny have Neely in a chokehold where Neely was slack and not fighting back?

Since there is plenty of video of the incident, I believe justice will be done, not political agendas.

 

[Damocles]

Are you saying Neely was still for 15 minutes while Penny had him in a choke hold or are you saying they were struggling for 15 minutes? How long did Penny have Neely in a chokehold where Neely was slack and not fighting back?

Since there is plenty of video of the incident, I believe justice will be done, not political agendas.

They don't trust the system to make the decision they want, so they will continue to build strawmen. They do not seek justice, they seem to seek to use the courts as an extension of their political will rather than as a system we use to mete out justice.

 

[Phantasmal]

Are you saying Neely was still for 15 minutes while Penny had him in a choke hold or are you saying they were struggling for 15 minutes? How long did Penny have Neely in a chokehold where Neely was slack and not fighting back?

Since there is plenty of video of the incident, I believe justice will be done, not political agendas.

“After two minutes, a passerby who had entered the train warns Mr Penny and the other men that Mr Neely might be dying…

One of the men replies that Mr Penny has stopped "squeezing" Mr Neely's neck.

The passerby says that Mr Neely had defecated on himself, and that this could be a sign he is dying.

He warns Mr Penny had that if he does not let Mr Neely go, he could face a murder charge.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65578905.amp

 

[Bai Lan]

They don't trust the system to make the decision they want, so they will continue to build strawmen. They do not seek justice, they seem to seek to use the courts as an extension of their political will rather than as a system we use to mete out justice.

yes they are.

(i see what you did there)

 

[Phantasmal]

They don't trust the system to make the decision they want, so they will continue to build strawmen. They do not seek justice, they seem to seek to use the courts as an extension of their political will rather than as a system we use to mete out justice.

Who are “they”?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

They don't trust the system to make the decision they want, so they will continue to build strawmen. They do not seek justice, they seem to seek to use the courts as an extension of their political will rather than as a system we use to mete out justice.

Unfortunately, that’s exactly what some people will do. They’ll prejudge and seek to execute even before the trial starts.

Obviously the death of any American at the hands of another needs to be investigated and, if appropriate, those responsible should be held accountable.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

“After two minutes, a passerby who had entered the train warns Mr Penny and the other men that Mr Neely might be dying…

One of the men replies that Mr Penny has stopped "squeezing" Mr Neely's neck.

The passerby says that Mr Neely had defecated on himself, and that this could be a sign he is dying.

He warns Mr Penny had that if he does not let Mr Neely go, he could face a murder charge.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65578905.amp

Thanks. No doubt that will all come out at trial if it goes that far. The link says Penny held Neely for 2 minutes, 55 seconds. Not the 15 minute death grip Nordberg is claiming.

From the link:

“ Mr Penny had told other passengers to call emergency services during the struggle.

Video shows him putting Mr Neely into a recovery position after he goes limp.

Juan Alberto Vazquez, a freelance journalist who filmed the encounter, told the New York Times that Mr Neely had been screaming that he had nothing to eat or drink.

"I don't mind going to jail and getting life in prison. I'm ready to die," he reportedly said.

Mr Vazquez said that he did not believe the man would die.

"None of us were thinking that," he told the New York Times. "He was moving and he was defending himself."”

 

[Damocles]

Who are “they”?

Nordberg. Wouldn't want to misgender them. But it can be more generically applied if you want to include pretty much anyone that insists they know what will happen in the court before even a second of testimony has been heard. I've noted that I will wait for the verdict several times, though I have also noted that I think it is likely there will be an acquittal I certainly do not say that "he's innocent" before the trial... "They" tend to tell me how they'd "vote" if they were on the jury regardless of evidence. I get that when juries acquit folks like Kyle Rittenhouse or Zimmerman folks think that their political will was thwarted and get angry. I just don't understand their motivation or certainty.

I have noted several times that I think the NYC jury will make the decision. I tend to go with their decision as they see and hear more than I do. (Even when I get transcripts as some things are stricken from the record).

 

[Phantasmal]

Nordberg. Wouldn't want to misgender them. But it can be more generically applied if you want to pretty much anyone that insists they know what will happen in the court. I've noted that I will wait for the verdict several times, "they" tend to tell me how they'd "vote" if they were on the jury. I get that when juries acquit folks like Kyle Rittenhouse or Zimmerman folks think that their political will was thwarted and get angry. I just don't understand their motivation or certainty.

I have noted several times that I think the NYC jury will make the decision. I tend to go with their decision as they see and hear more than I do. (Even when I get transcripts as some things are stricken from the record).

Thank you

 

[ExpressLane]

He strangled him for 15 minutes and would not stop even though people were telling him he was killing him. He was deliberately killing him. If he was a combat expert as you claim, he knew what the end would be. You are wrong again.

Video of the incident shows Penny with his arms wrapped around Neely's neck for roughly three minutes as they were on the floor of the subway car. A second passenger pinned Neely’s arms while a third person held down his shoulder.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...l-penny-attorney-defends-actions/70190821007/

 

[Phantasmal]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...l-penny-attorney-defends-actions/70190821007/

Did the video start with Penny putting Neely in the hold?
[FONT=&quot]“A witness has said Penny held Neely in the chokehold for about 15 minutes. Neely lost consciousness and could not be resuscitated by medical responders, police said. He was taken to Lenox Hill Hospital, where he was declared deceased.”2 days ago
[/FONT]


https://thehill.com › state-watch › 4...

[h=3]Jordan Neely's chokehold death on NYC subway: What has happened ...[/h]

 

[Earl]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...l-penny-attorney-defends-actions/70190821007/

“Video of the incident shows Penny with his arms wrapped around Neely's neck for roughly three minutes as they were on the floor of the subway car. A second passenger pinned Neely’s arms while a third person held down his shoulder.”

Nordy lies…often.

 

[ExpressLane]

He strangled him for 15 minutes and would not stop even though people were telling him he was killing him. He was deliberately killing him. If he was a combat expert as you claim, he knew what the end would be. You are wrong again.

Video of the incident shows Penny with his arms wrapped around Neely's neck for roughly three minutes as they were on the floor of the subway car. A second passenger pinned Neely’s arms while a third person held down his shoulder.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...l-penny-attorney-defends-actions/70190821007/

 

[Jarod]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...l-penny-attorney-defends-actions/70190821007/

I’ll withhold judgment until I see the video.

 

[Taichiliberal]

You are reaching. You have built a strawman, pretending I said something I did not then arguing against that. You failed, your fallacy was made of onion skin.

The reality: Even the prosecutor understands that he did not try to kill him. Had he believed that he meant to kill him he would be charged with first degree murder after getting a grand jury to indict him. The prosecutor in NYC, where they overcharge in the hopes of getting plea agreements, knows that he has no reasonable cause and would not get a true bill to charge with a capital crime here.

This trial will focus on whether a reasonable person could believe that he or others were in danger, and whether such a hold was "reasonable". He used a hold that is not considered deadly, he didn't use a weapon. I think even a NYC jury is likely to acquit this former Marine as he tried to protect others from an erratic stranger threatening folks on the subway. Now, what I did say was that this gentleman was not law enforcement trained so the "excessive force" rules they apply to cops would not apply, as he is a civilian the standard that will apply will be the "reasonable" standard as he is not trained as LE.

"... he used a hold that is not considered deadly..."

Wrong. That particular hold (also known as the "sleeper hold") is notorious for knowing when to release pressure when the opponent goes limp, otherwise you might kill them.

Perry was trained in combat, NOT as a military policeman. Different skill sets in dealing with the public. Like I said in another post, anyone who has had some years of TRADITIONAL training in a martial art knows that there are a plethora of ways to subdue an opponent WITHOUT going to the ground in a choke hold (or using a "sleeper hold"). The opponent may suffer some bruising (or in some cases a broken limb) and after pain, but they'll be alive.

Perry obviously only had a limited muscle memory of what would make him safe from retaliation and put an end to the opponent. That comes from training ONLY to be in combat via military situations. That doesn't automatically go to intent, but it gives light as to why things happened as they did.