New York State mandates all electric buildings

[QP!]

I have always been opposed the govt interference like when Obama bin laden decided some businesses were "too big to fail" and gave them bail outs. Id say there is a bit of a difference, not better, a bit of a difference between telling corporations what they can do and limiting what American citizens can do. Besides the govt has for decades been telling private businesses who they must serve and how they serve them. Smoking bans and requiring handicapped accessibility. Businesses can't refuse to serve base on gender or race or sexual orientation, etc. That's govt control of private business. I don't understand why a business would want to restrict who they serve but they should be free to decide who they want to serve and who they dont. That's the kind of freedom I'm for. Let the market decide which businesses will succeed not the govt.

Good.

I generally agree with your view if it is applied consistently.

So you must hate what you see with Trump.

For decades the Conservative view was big gov't needed to stick to big Federal issues and stay out of State and especially city issues. That hte best gov't to deal with the people was the one closest to the people, ie the local city counsel and then State gov'ts. Fed' handled Highways, and military, etc.

Trump's gov't approach is the gov't dictates everything at a local level. Telling museums what they should feature, school boards what they should teach, corporation who can be their CEO and what their policies re hiring, telling law firms who they can represent or hire, and universities what they can teach, and so on and so on.

In the history of America there has never been such a top down, intrusive Federal gov't posture.

Are you bothered by it?

If this was President Bernie Sanders or AOC telling the GOP States the same, but with a leftist spin, would you be ok with it?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

So says Terry.

But all around the world jurisdictions and corporations and financiers are pouring billions and billions into green energy both as investment and to diversify their grids and because they believe it will provide much of the energy of the future.


Terry will keep repeating 'i know more than all of them and they are wrong. Believe me and not them.

Look up the word hubris Terry and understand how and why you always look stupid due to it.

MAGATs are greedy motherfuckers who are terrified that admitting climate change is real and taking steps to mitigate it will cost them money. Ditto for investing in green energies. They are too ignorant and short-sighted to understand that it's an issue of pay noiw, or pay a lot more later.

 

[QP!]

....

Words have meaning, and you, Humpty Dumpty, don't get to make your own definitions of them.

Terry if tomorrow the US said 'all homes to black people will be provided a zero percent mortgage' and it was only given to blacks would you acknowledge that was something that subsidized the total home ownership cost making it easier for blacks, compared to others to buy that home?

or are you going to maintain, that giving interest free loans, free land use grants, or any other such non cash, indirect benefit, that allows the company to pay out cash for something they otherwise would pay for, is not a subsidy and all these organizations are just wrong as only you know what a subsidy is?

 

[Based Chad]

Stick the list up. I stated that most of what you are calling "subsidies" aren't subsidies at all. Put the list up. I dare you.

Tax breaks aren't subsidies. They are tax breaks. Subisides are the government giving oil companies money.

sub·sidy
[ˈsʌbsɪdi]
noun
subsidy (noun)
subsidies (plural noun)

1. a sum of money granted by the state or a public body to help an industry or business keep the price of a commodity or service low:
   
   • a sum of money granted to support an undertaking held to be in the public interest:

Words have meaning, and you, Humpty Dumpty, don't get to make your own definitions of them.

but we do allow the oil companies do externalize their costs of well acquisition by conquering foreing lands with public money.

 

[Based Chad]

MAGATs are greedy motherfuckers who are terrified that admitting climate change is real and taking steps to mitigate it will cost them money. Ditto for investing in green energies. They are too ignorant and short-sighted to understand that it's an issue of pay noiw, or pay a lot more later.

it's not real.

It's a scam by the powers that be to advantage China on purpose.

you're a traitor for believing it.

 

[Yakuda]

Good.

I generally agree with your view if it is applied consistently.

So you must hate what you see with Trump.

For decades the Conservative view was big gov't needed to stick to big Federal issues and stay out of State and especially city issues. That hte best gov't to deal with the people was the one closest to the people, ie the local city counsel and then State gov'ts. Fed' handled Highways, and military, etc.

Trump's gov't approach is the gov't dictates everything at a local level. Telling museums what they should feature, school boards what they should teach, corporation who can be their CEO and what their policies re hiring, telling law firms who they can represent or hire, and universities what they can teach, and so on and so on.

In the history of America there has never been such a top down, intrusive Federal gov't posture.

Are you bothered by it?

If this was President Bernie Sanders or AOC telling the GOP States the same, but with a leftist spin, would you be ok with it?

See, this where you lose me. You want to play pretend that you leftists,/Democrats don't do the same. We saw bit during covid. Forcing the death stab. People leaving jobs because they wouldnt "comply". FDR interred Japanese Americans in actual camps while trump is rounding up illegals that joey did not to prevent. We had Obama bin laden weaponizing the FBI against a political opponent. Im not really interested in a sermon from that side of the aisle. You people have no clue why trump is so popular. You think you do but you don't. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that you don't seem want to know. You prefer to live in your bubble.

 

[QP!]

See, this where you lose me. You want to play pretend that you leftists,/Democrats don't do the same. We saw bit during covid. Forcing the death stab. People leaving jobs because they wouldnt "comply". FDR interred Japanese Americans in actual camps while trump is rounding up illegals that joey did not to prevent. We had Obama bin laden weaponizing the FBI against a political opponent. Im not really interested in a sermon from that side of the aisle. You people have no clue why trump is so popular. You think you do but you don't. That doesn't bother me as much as the fact that you don't seem want to know. You prefer to live in your bubble.

Ya but the example you give about Dems is what was always done from the Federal level, for things like vaccines and certainly during declared National emergencies.

FDR rounding up Japanese has been condemned as historical wrong by dems and everyone.

So it seems your argument is 'you are ok with Trump doing it' and that is based on your warped view that these things are the same when the things Trump is going in to WHERE NEVER DONE PRIOR.

For decades the GOP and conservative position on gov't and policing was much closer to the 'free man' stance of saying cops would get shot if they tried to force citizens to identify themselves and to arrest or hold them with no cause and yet now Magats celebrate Trump police showing up in unmarked cars, masked and rounding up citizens who had done no crimes and forcing those citizens to prove they are innocent to be let go.

Had Obama tried that in Magat territory i honestly think we would have had civil war.

 

[FastLane]

New York’s All-Electric Building Mandate Sparks Grid Strain, Soaring Power Costs

New York’s all-electric building mandate is straining the grid, driving up costs, and stalling housing development, experts warn.

climatechangedispatch.com

There is also a push to electrify rail.

What could go wrong?

So no gas ranges in restaurants. That isn't going to work.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

yes but you are lying.

Give me the link to where you took that definition from as i GUARANTEE you are purposely blocking out the second part of what a subsidy is... because you do not like the "meaning" of the words you are trying to hide from us.


Investopedia

Subsidies are financial benefits typically given by governments to individuals, businesses, or industries to alleviate burdens or promote economic and social policies. They can be direct (cash payments) or indirect (tax breaks, price reductions).

subsidy​

noun​

sub·si·dy ˈsəb-sə-dē
-zə-

pluralsubsidies
Synonyms of subsidy
: a grant or gift of money: such as
a
: a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation
b
: money granted by one state to another
c
: a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

Definition of SUBSIDY

a grant or gift of money: such as; a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation; money granted by one state to another… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

subsidy, a direct or indirect payment, economic concession, or privilege granted by a government to private firms, households, or other governmental units in order to promote a public objective

Britannica Money

www.britannica.com

subsidy
noun [ C ]

uk

/ˈsʌb.sɪ.di/ us

/ˈsʌb.sə.di/

Add to word list
C1
money given as part of the cost of something, to help or encourage it to happen:

subsidy

1. money given as part of the cost of something, to help or encourage it to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

How many more examples do you want? I can get them, and they all say the same exact fucking thing! You are wrong, and those typical radical Leftist, environmentalist lists of so-called subsidies to oil companies are full of shit, just like you!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Terry if tomorrow the US said 'all homes to black people will be provided a zero percent mortgage' and it was only given to blacks would you acknowledge that was something that subsidized the total home ownership cost making it easier for blacks, compared to others to buy that home?

or are you going to maintain, that giving interest free loans, free land use grants, or any other such non cash, indirect benefit, that allows the company to pay out cash for something they otherwise would pay for, is not a subsidy and all these organizations are just wrong as only you know what a subsidy is?

A tax break is NOT an accounting trick or method commonly used by business, such as LIFO or FIFO accounting, or depreciation of assets. The government funding R&D into something the government wants studied is not a subsidy.

Look at the useless goddamned lists those radical Leftist environmentalists produce of so-called subsidies to oil companies and that type of shit is upwards of 90% of what they list.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

but we do allow the oil companies do externalize their costs of well acquisition by conquering foreing lands with public money.

What foreign lands have we "conquer(ed)" in the last say, 50 years? A conquest means the US invaded, took over, and declared that land now US territory. Where'd we do this exactly?

The US has fought wars in the last 50 years, and invaded and occupied foreign territory, but that has always been temporary and exploitation of local resources has generally been very limited in those cases.

 

[QP!]

A tax break is NOT an accounting trick or method commonly used by business, such as LIFO or FIFO accounting. The government funding R&D into something the government wants studied is not a subsidy.

Look at the useless goddamned lists those radical Leftist environmentalists produce of so-called subsidies to oil companies and that type of shit is upwards of 90% of what they list.

A subsidy is someone giving you the land, so you do not have to pay cash out of pocket for it, and you can just focus on the house costs.

Do you understand how that subsidizes your cost of building a home Terry? Or are you so stupid that escapes you?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

A subsidy is someone giving you the land, so you do not have to pay cash out of pocket for it, and you can just focus on the house costs.

Do you understand how that subsidizes your cost of building a home Terry? Or are you so stupid that escapes you?

Who is giving whom the land (for free or so you imply)? The US government regularly holds auctions at which companies and individuals can bid on a lot of land to lease from the government for some purpose. The BLM does that regularly. Ranchers lease land to graze cattle. Lumber companies lease land to harvest trees for lumber. Mining companies lease land to mine on. What makes oil companies any different?

 

[QP!]

Who is giving whom the land (for free or so you imply)? The US government regularly holds auctions at which companies and individuals can bid on a lot of land to lease from the government for some purpose. The BLM does that regularly. Ranchers lease land to graze cattle. Lumber companies lease land to harvest trees for lumber. Mining companies lease land to mine on. What makes oil companies any different?

Stick to my question and then i will address your.

If person A or Business A is given land free to use or granted the land, that otherwise would be sold or leased, is that a subsidy?

Saying 'lots of others often get land that way' is not an answer as they are just being subsidized when they get it too.


So again. You need land for your big project (personal or business) to use and build upon. If you cannot get it from gov't, you either will have to buy it or lease it privately and deplete your cash to get it but if you can instead get the gov't to give it to you free or to use it free... IS THAT SUBSIDIZING YOUR BUSINESS and saving you cash outlays, you otherwise would have to make?

If a big sports team is looking at many cities to put a stadium in a competitive process and one city says 'come to our downtown and we will give you this core downtown land free', and the team chooses them, did that team just get a subsidy?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Stick to my question and then i will address your.

If person A or Business A is given land free to use or granted the land, that otherwise would be sold or leased, is that a subsidy?

Free land would be a subsidy. But, that's just a red herring since oil companies lease the land they drill on from the government--where it's public land. So, "free land" doesn't apply in their case.

Saying 'lots of others often get land that way' is not an answer as they are just being subsidized when they get it too.

They aren't being "subsidized." They are leasing the land from the government at an agreed to price. By your standard, a company that leases a building is being "subsidized" by the landlord that owns the building. That's nonsense.

So again. You need land for your big project (personal or business) to use and build upon. If you cannot get it from gov't, you either will have to buy it or lease it privately and deplete your cash to get it but if you can instead get the gov't to give it to you free or to use it free... IS THAT SUBSIDIZING YOUR BUSINESS and saving you cash outlays, you otherwise would have to make?

The government leases land to private entities too. They don't hand it out for free.

Programs: Energy and Minerals: Oil and Gas: Leasing: State Lease Sales | Bureau of Land Management

State Oil and Gas Lease Sales BLM State Offices conduct lease sales quarterly when parcels are eligible and available for lease. Each State Office publishes a Notice of Competitive Lease Sale (Sale Notice), which lists parcels to be offered at the auction, usually 45 days before the auction...

www.blm.gov

If a big sports team is looking at many cities to put a stadium in a competitive process and one city says 'come to our downtown and we will give you this core downtown land free', and the team chooses them, did that team just get a subsidy?

Yes, professional sports teams are heavily subsidized by government. That has nothing to do with what oil and gas companies are getting which aren't subsidies. They are leasing the land from the government at an agreed to price often set by law. Oil and gas LEASES are held at an auction where those parties interested can bid on the lots. That is NOT A SUBSIDY!

 

[Yakuda]

Ya but the example you give about Dems is what was always done from the Federal level, for things like vaccines and certainly during declared National emergencies.

FDR rounding up Japanese has been condemned as historical wrong by dems and everyone.

So it seems your argument is 'you are ok with Trump doing it' and that is based on your warped view that these things are the same when the things Trump is going in to WHERE NEVER DONE PRIOR.

For decades the GOP and conservative position on gov't and policing was much closer to the 'free man' stance of saying cops would get shot if they tried to force citizens to identify themselves and to arrest or hold them with no cause and yet now Magats celebrate Trump police showing up in unmarked cars, masked and rounding up citizens who had done no crimes and forcing those citizens to prove they are innocent to be let go.

Had Obama tried that in Magat territory i honestly think we would have had civil war.

You still don't get it. I don't give a shit how you try to explain it away I wont be preached to by people who behave just s shitty. It's the excuses that make you people even more unseemly. Everyone can see you hate America and Americans and frankly after nearly 10 years of nothing but pissing and moaning about trump people just don't care anymore. If Trump cured cancer you cocksuckers wound whine he didn't cure diabetes. Decent people are sick and tired of you

 

[QP!]

Free land would be a subsidy. ...

Good first step.

What about free use of land that an OIl and gas company might get, or a stadium might get, that other businesses would not, or that they would have to pay full value to build upon in other jurisdiction that was not offering that same land?


So you have one city or State offering to the company when others are not and if they build elsewhere they would pay cash for the land.

Is that subsidy? If you were city that lost the Arena due to that is it right to say you lost, in part, because the other city was able to offer a subsidy that we could not?

 

[QP!]

You still don't get it. I don't give a shit how you try to explain it away I wont be preached to by people who behave just s shitty. It's the excuses that make you people even more unseemly. Everyone can see you hate America and Americans and frankly after nearly 10 years of nothing but pissing and moaning about trump people just don't care anymore. If Trump cured cancer you cocksuckers wound whine he didn't cure diabetes. Decent people are sick and tired of you

"Preached to" is an admission you know it is wrong but because of a whataboutism you say you won't hear it.

So it is start that you acknowledge the wrong.

 

[Yakuda]

"Preached to" is an admission you know it is wrong but because of a whataboutism you say you won't hear it.

So it is start that you acknowledge the wrong.

That's in your mind. You tell me how horrible trump is is like a bank robber pissing and moaning that they got their locket picked. Stfu

You scrotum suckers have created a society where a supreme court justice can't tell us what a woman is because she not a biologist. You retards have done more damage than anything trump has done or could do.

 

[gmark77]

Civilization runs on energy, I'll agree with. What you need are energy sources that are reliable, run predictably, and are economical in cost. Solar and wind meet none of those requirements, particularly solar.

I heard about something someone recently invented called a battery. I think it stores electricity so you can use it even when the sun isn't shining or the wind blowing.

I don't know if these exist yet but I bet one day they will be quite common.