Fellow Christians, what does this passage mean to you?

Damocles said:
The charismatic movement, as ID correctly calls it, would cite John 14:6 "No man comes to the Father, but by me." They reject intercession theory. Saints are not your connection to God, God is through Christ.

I met one man, I can't remember the church he was part of, who believed that because of John 6:44 ("No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.") that God chose who would be saved and that I was one that God simply rejected from the beginning. He believed that I would never be saved, that God Himself decided that I wasn't worthy of being drawn to Christ. He really made me feel like a bug. What an a$$...
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Actually the Reformation was a rejection that any work apart from Christ is able to save- including the work of salvation. Though no man can know who that work will save, it is a definite act of God's- a complete work of grace.

Sola Scriptura (By Scripture Alone) Solas Christus (In Christ Alone) Sola Fide (By Faith Alone) Sola Dei Gloria (Glory To God Alone)
 
Jarod said:
A conservative is also living a lie, if he is a Catholic. Being a Pro-Abortionist may be a problem with being a Catholic, beliveing abotrion sould be legal is not a conflict.
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Just when it would appear you have maxed out your stupidity, you go and find a way to make yourself look even more foolish.
 
Damocles said:
I actually cherish that time now. During it all, it was a painful experience. Around 10 (just before actually) I "outed" myself as a non-believer and from then on was both ostracized and focused on. I was singled out, isolated, and forced into studies that have, IMO, helped me immensely in the long run... but I was a sad child. After my talent for language was discovered I was forced to be a sign language translator during services so that I would have to go, and to pay attention. In that capacity I was forced to participate in such things as the Prison Ministry... I can tell you some stories.

One of these days I may write a book about the experience.
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If you do, let us know. I'd love to read it.

It's sad that professed Christians would treat a child or adult this way. How can a pre-teen defend himself against attacks? It's shameful.
 
icedancer2theend said:
Actually the Reformation was a rejection that any work apart from Christ is able to save- including the work of salvation. Though no man can know who that work will save, it is a definite act of God's- a complete work of grace.

Sola Scriptura (By Scripture Alone) Solas Christus (In Christ Alone) Sola Fide (By Faith Alone) Sola Dei Gloria (Glory To God Alone)
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However, I am speaking about "most" in one particular area, not somebody who has studies the reformation. I think what you are mistaking is theology as compared to belief.

"Most" in the charismatic movement wouldn't have the depth of knowledge you are speaking of here. They read: "No man comes to the Father but by Me." and see it as a rejection of the intercession theory where Catholics pray to Saints for intercession on their behalf.

While they are taught to pray to Christ, most don't understand the depth of reason for what Martin Luther did.
 
christiefan915 said:
If you do, let us know. I'd love to read it.

It's sad that professed Christians would treat a child or adult this way. How can a pre-teen defend himself against attacks? It's shameful.
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All I did was abjectly refuse to pretend. I guess I was stubborn. I became angry, especially as a teen. At that time what was happening became the central reason for my rejection. At that point if I even was convinced I would have lied and told them I still didn't believe. I wasn't going to let them win.

It wasn't until years later, after I had been a Buddhist for a couple years, when I was able to not only forgive, but to understand what they were doing and why. These people really cared, they feared for me. They did the wrong thing for the right reasons...

I was able to create a great relationship with my mother once I "discovered" this, one that I never thought I'd be able to have.

Flat out I was PISSED, and without introspection and understanding would have remained that way. It drove me to make stupid decisions for some time... I'm extremely glad I was able to find a way out of that.
 
Damocles said:
However, I am speaking about "most" in one particular area, not somebody who has studies the reformation. I think what you are mistaking is theology as compared to belief.

"Most" in the charismatic movement wouldn't have the depth of knowledge you are speaking of here. They read: "No man comes to the Father but by Me." and see it as a rejection of the intercession theory where Catholics pray to Saints for intercession on their behalf.

While they are taught to pray to Christ, most don't understand the depth of reason for what Martin Luther did.
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Most in the charismatic movement- I would agree. But you seemingly mistake your experience within that group, as being the most common representation- it just isn't. Though they are the group that get the most attention- this is due both to their kookiness (the anti faith crowd love to point to these types as representative of Christianity) and to their tickling the ears of their followers in raising money. Indeed they can best be compared to the kind of leaders that the Reformation rejected. Selling their "indulgences" like pre-Reformation Catholic's for a guarantee of Heaven. The "name it and claim it" crowd.
 
Damocles said:
Matt 23: 9...

"Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven"
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Jesus gave the apostle's power to forgive sin, you can find the passages throughout the NT. I think he biliary to forgive sin is intercession. I never understood the undamentalists position on this. It is supported by scripture.
 
Damocles said:
I actually cherish that time now. During it all, it was a painful experience. Around 10 (just before actually) I "outed" myself as a non-believer and from then on was both ostracized and focused on. I was singled out, isolated, and forced into studies that have, IMO, helped me immensely in the long run... but I was a sad child. After my talent for language was discovered I was forced to be a sign language translator during services so that I would have to go, and to pay attention. In that capacity I was forced to participate in such things as the Prison Ministry... I can tell you some stories.

One of these days I may write a book about the experience.
Click to expand...

You should write the book. My experience is very similar. I went to parochial school till the 8th grade. I told my 6th grade teacher that I didn't believe the story of Noah's Ark. I had to do a lot of penance. I continued to struggle in and out of believe, until, I was in my 40's and had time to read. I am now agnostic and still reading.

Your book would help young people who feel different and like a square peg in their round hole exists to know it is okay to question and break free from their indoctrination and seek answers for themselves.
 
Damocles said:
The charismatic movement, as ID correctly calls it, would cite John 14:6 "No man comes to the Father, but by me." They reject intercession theory. Saints are not your connection to God, God is through Christ.

I met one man, I can't remember the church he was part of, who believed that because of John 6:44 ("No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.") that God chose who would be saved and that I was one that God simply rejected from the beginning. He believed that I would never be saved, that God Himself decided that I wasn't worthy of being drawn to Christ. He really made me feel like a bug. What an a$$...
Click to expand...


It is why scripture is confusing and people can pretty much site the passage of their choice to validate their belief, the Catholic viewpoint is that there arevmorevpassges to support intercession than their is against it.

It is why I question the Bible as the word of God. He made it very confusing, often contradicting himself.
 
Jarod said:
A conservative is also living a lie, if he is a Catholic. Being a Pro-Abortionist may be a problem with being a Catholic, beliveing abotrion sould be legal is not a conflict.
Click to expand...

If believing it is between a woman, her doctor and her God is considered a pro abortionist, then so be it.
 
Damocles said:
The charismatic movement, as ID correctly calls it, would cite John 14:6 "No man comes to the Father, but by me." They reject intercession theory. Saints are not your connection to God, God is through Christ.

I met one man, I can't remember the church he was part of, who believed that because of John 6:44 ("No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.") that God chose who would be saved and that I was one that God simply rejected from the beginning. He believed that I would never be saved, that God Himself decided that I wasn't worthy of being drawn to Christ. He really made me feel like a bug. What an a$$...
Click to expand...


They make God an ass also, because their belief, he creates you to be damned. Now that is a loving God?
 
Rana said:
Jesus gave the apostle's power to forgive sin, you can find the passages throughout the NT. I think he biliary to forgive sin is intercession. I never understood the undamentalists position on this. It is supported by scripture.
Click to expand...

However, he did not give them the title of Father. That one was set aside for the Deity.
 
Damocles said:
They believe that most Catholics are not "saved" because they are not "born again", and those are the steps to take to be "born again"...
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keep in mind you were raised in a fundamentalist pentacostal church.......I've heard one woman argue that another couldn't possibly be saved because when she prayed she didn't see sprinkles of gold dust on her shoulders......
 
Jarod said:
A conservative is also living a lie, if he is a Catholic. Being a Pro-Abortionist may be a problem with being a Catholic, beliveing abotrion sould be legal is not a conflict.
Click to expand...

it's biblical...."Suffer the little children to come unto me".........
 
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