Cain this all be true?

you mean as opposed to people who favor killing the child?........

Yeah - that kind of loaded question is really original.

If the majority of people & the courts thought a fetus in the 1st trimester was a child & that abortion was "killing a child," abortion in the 1st trimester would be outlawed. It isn't.

Cue "but slavery once had majority support, too!"
 
No, fact and truth doesn't matter to YOU... as you've evidenced by your anti-science position on when human life begins.




You are entitled to your own opinion, which you invariably confuse with "truth". And don't copy me... Try to be original in your thought.
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/fetusperson.html

Is a Fetus a Human Being?

Historically, a fetus has never (or very rarely) been considered a human being, at least not before "quickening", an old-fashioned term indicating noticeable movement of the fetus. The Catholic Church even allowed abortion until quickening, up until 18694. Further, the wide variety of laws throughout the world were written specifically to protect born human beings and their property. There is virtually no legal precedent for applying such laws to fetuses. Even when abortion was illegal, it had a lesser punishment than for murder, and was often just a misdemeanor6. The anti-choice view of fetuses as human beings is therefore a novel and peculiar one, with little historical or legal precedent to back it up.

Fetuses are uniquely different from born human beings in major ways, which casts doubt on the claim that they can be classified as human beings. The most fundamental difference is that a fetus is totally dependent on a woman's body to survive. Anti-choicers might argue that born human beings can be entirely dependent on other people too, but the crucial difference is that they are not dependent on one, specific person to the exclusion of all others. Anybody can take care of a newborn infant (or disabled person), but only that pregnant woman can nurture her fetus. She can’t hire someone else to do it.

Another key difference is that a fetus doesn't just depend on a woman's body for survival, it actually resides inside her body. Human beings must, by definition, be separate individuals. They do not gain the status of human being by virtue of living inside the body of another human being—the very thought is inherently ridiculous, even offensive.

Does a Fetus Have a "Right to Life"?

Anti-choicers say that a fetus has an inherent "right to life." But many of them support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, or a threat to the woman's life, or even health. This clearly indicates that they believe the right to life of a fetus is negotiable, certainly not absolute or paramount. By compromising their "right to life" definition in order to accommodate a woman's rights, they inadvertently acknowledge that women's rights are more important than the "right to life" of fetuses.

Even if a fetus can be said to have a right to life, this does not include the right to use the body of another human being. For example, the state cannot force people to donate organs or blood, even to save someone's life. We are not obligated by law to risk our lives jumping into a river to save a drowning victim, noble as that might be. Therefore, even if a fetus has a right to life, a pregnant woman is not required to save it by loaning out her body for nine months against her will7. (In response, anti-choicers say that being pregnant is not the same as being a Good Samaritan, because the woman chose to have sex, voluntarily accepting the risk of pregnancy8. But sex is not a contract for pregnancy—people have a right to non-procreative sex9. Their argument is also sexist and puritanical because it punishes women, not men, for their sexual behaviour.)

Even if a fetus were a human being with a right to life, this right doesn't automatically overrule a woman's right to choose, which can be argued to have a higher moral value under the circumstances. The free exercise of one's moral conscience is a fundamental right in our society. And since pregnancy entails profound physical, psychological, and long-lasting consequences for a woman (it is not a mere "inconvenience"), her freedoms are significantly restricted if she is forced to carry to term.

If fetuses did have a right to live, one could make an equal case for the right of unwanted fetuses not to live. This is alien to the anti-choice assumption that all life is precious and should be encouraged and preserved at any cost. In the real world, however, some people commit suicide because they no longer want to live, and others wish they’d never been born. Life is not a picnic for all, especially unwanted children who are at high risk for leading dysfunctional lives10. Many people believe that being forced to live is a violation of human dignity and conscience. To be truly meaningful, the right to live must include the flip side, the right to die.

Ultimately though, to have a "right to life" requires that one be an individual capable of living an independent existence. One must "get a life" before one has a "right to life." A fetus is not a separate individual—it lives inside a pregnant woman and depends on her for its growth. In fact, the biological definition of "parasite" fits the fetal mode of growth precisely, especially since pregnancy causes a major upset to a woman's body, just like a parasite does to its host. I'm not trying to disparage fetuses with the negative connotations of the word parasite; in fact, parasites and their hosts often enjoy mutually supportive relationships, and this obviously includes most pregnancies. However, the parasitic relationship of a fetus to a woman means that its continued existence requires her consent11—if she continues the pregnancy unwillingly, her rights and bodily integrity are violated.
 
If "pro-lifers" actually cared about fetal life, as opposed to regulating female sexuality, fertility clinics would not exist.
 
Stoning women to death isn't allowed in America. I would also oppose any Presidential nominee who supported this.

So, what's your point?

yet I have heard people complain when Cain said he wouldn't appoint someone who favored Sharia law for appointment.....
 
Yeah - that kind of loaded question is really original.

If the majority of people & the courts thought a fetus in the 1st trimester was a child & that abortion was "killing a child," abortion in the 1st trimester would be outlawed. It isn't.

Cue "but slavery once had majority support, too!"

both slavery and abortion were justified by the same argument......"they aren't really human beings".....
 
Poet, you've posted all that claptrap before, it still doesn't say that a fetus is not a living human organism. It's very similar to the type of arguments we saw in the early 1800s, to combat the abolition movement. People went to great lengths to deny black people were "legitimate" human beings. The TRUTH won out there, and the TRUTH wins out here as well. Abortion is the legal killing of human beings who have not developed to a certain threshold. Now, I have no problem whatsoever, in a national debate on when it's appropriate to end human life, but we first have to come to terms with what we're doing, and dispel the MYTH that a fetus is not human life. Until we can all be honest about that, we can't have an intellectual discussion of the morality issue itself, and we remain mired in semantics and a false understanding of science and biology.
 
The left is showing their hand on Herman Cain. Every hateful racist tactic is gonna be used now that he is getting more popular. The lefty dweebs ar scrambling and searching for a woman who had an affair or claims to be sexually harrassed by him. Remember the confirmation hearings of Clarence Thomas.........
 
The left is showing their hand on Herman Cain. Every hateful racist tactic is gonna be used now that he is getting more popular. The lefty dweebs ar scrambling and searching for a woman who had an affair or claims to be sexually harrassed by him. Remember the confirmation hearings of Clarence Thomas.........

LOL. A lowlife, who has come to show he is the lowlife he always was. You, campaigning on behalf of a black man, albeit conservative? Now that's news.
 
Poet, you've posted all that claptrap before, it still doesn't say that a fetus is not a living human organism. It's very similar to the type of arguments we saw in the early 1800s, to combat the abolition movement. People went to great lengths to deny black people were "legitimate" human beings. The TRUTH won out there, and the TRUTH wins out here as well. Abortion is the legal killing of human beings who have not developed to a certain threshold. Now, I have no problem whatsoever, in a national debate on when it's appropriate to end human life, but we first have to come to terms with what we're doing, and dispel the MYTH that a fetus is not human life. Until we can all be honest about that, we can't have an intellectual discussion of the morality issue itself, and we remain mired in semantics and a false understanding of science and biology.

Your reality isn't my reality. Thank God.
 
Keeping the federal government out of issues that it is not constitutionally mandated and letting the States do their own thing is the very essence of freedom.

No the very essence of freedom would be keeping the federal government out of issues and the states out of issues, that would be freedom, at least for the strong...
 
"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."


What important document is quoted above?
 
All abortions shouldn't be outlawed. There is rape and the health of the mother and the fetus in the stakes.

I agree that any abortion due to the risk of the health of the mother should be allowed if she chooses.
I agree that abortions should be allowed in the case of rape, though I would attempt to convince the woman to spare the child if I were asked for an opinion.

That said, there are no other cases where it should be legal in my opinion. It is a human life that is ended. What if that is the next Einstein or King being terminated?
 
"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."


What important document is quoted above?

yes moron, we get it... you found Article Six and are harping on it to death. We get it, you think you struck gold. Tell us then genius, why is it that politicians use abortion as a litmus test. That too is a religious belief (though it is also a scientific fact)
 
"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."


What important document is quoted above?

Jeebus... How many threads must we repeat this nonsense in?
 
I agree that any abortion due to the risk of the health of the mother should be allowed if she chooses.
I agree that abortions should be allowed in the case of rape, though I would attempt to convince the woman to spare the child if I were asked for an opinion.

That said, there are no othercases where it should be legal in my opinion. It is a human life that is ended. What if that is the next Einstein or King being terminated?

Maybe we should encourage women to keep having babies, as many as possible, just in case one can produce the next Einstein or King?
 
If "pro-lifers" actually cared about fetal life, as opposed to regulating female sexuality, fertility clinics would not exist.

If pro-abortionists really cared about preventing 'fetuses' from coming into a life of hardship, they would go around killing the poor people throughout the world to spare them the suffering as well.
 
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