Battling Government Overreach

leaningright

Moderate Republican
Staff member
Anyone here that knows me knows that I am passionate about a few things. God (but I try not to get involved in those conversations here) and my outdoor activities such as gardening, fishing and hunting. One of the main things I love about my part of Oklahoma is the access we enjoy to public hunting and fishing opportunities. My property borders a 16,000+ acre WMA which has been my playground since I was in the 5th grade.

The WMA is made up of land that was condemned when a flood control lake was built in the 1940’s. It is overseen (owned?) by the US Army Corps of Engineers and leased to the Oklahoma Wildlife Department (OWD). Last October the Corps of Engineers announced that they were going to close at least 10 roads to vehicle access and held a meeting to inform the hunters. No reason was given at that time other that “because we want to and we can.”

As soon as that announcement was made some folks formed the Southeast Oklahoma Sportsmen Association. They were mostly old men who were retired and very dependent on vehicular access to the WMA to continue to hunt. While they have done what they can, I decided to try to up the game a bit. I called or emailed every government official who is supposed to represent us, whether on the state or national level. I have contacted the OWD and have had extensive conversations with them about the closures. Initially I suspected the OWD was in cahoots with the Corps on this issue but am now convinced that they are not. The main thing I wanted to get to the bottom of was “Why?” Why the sudden need to declare roads that have been accessible for over a century as “illegal trails” and close them down by erecting barricades.

The answer I have come up with based on conversations with several state biologists and wildlife officials is that there are Native American artifacts down there. That seems to be what they were told. Specifically, arrowheads. This is such a feeble excuse for what is being done. And based upon the new signs that have been put up at the entrances to the WMA I think it is the only reason.

Anyway, I am embarking on something that I have never really done before. I’m helping these guys get their message out. I created a Facebook page and linked an online petition which has garnered over 1100 signatures in less than 3 days. That’s not bad when you consider that our community here has less than 200 people. I am attaching every representative and senators phone # and email, every wildlife official that oversees our region phone # and email and every US Corps of Engineers official who has anything to do with SE Oklahoma’s phone # and email. I will include a letter for members to cut and paste voicing displeasure at the closing of the roads to vehicle access.

I am going to attack the issue from the Disabilities act angle and from the Native American elders angle. I have no lawyer friends but do have a former student who is a district judge. I am hoping he can point me to a lawyer who would do some things for us pro bono. I am contacting television networks letting them know what we are fighting. We may never get anything done to reverse the Corps actions but fortunately this is the United States of America and we can squawk about that with which we disagree.

Too bad I don’t know President Trump. This is the sort of thing he’d probably make a big deal about. 😉
 
Anyone here that knows me knows that I am passionate about a few things. God (but I try not to get involved in those conversations here) and my outdoor activities such as gardening, fishing and hunting. One of the main things I love about my part of Oklahoma is the access we enjoy to public hunting and fishing opportunities. My property borders a 16,000+ acre WMA which has been my playground since I was in the 5th grade.

The WMA is made up of land that was condemned when a flood control lake was built in the 1940’s. It is overseen (owned?) by the US Army Corps of Engineers and leased to the Oklahoma Wildlife Department (OWD). Last October the Corps of Engineers announced that they were going to close at least 10 roads to vehicle access and held a meeting to inform the hunters. No reason was given at that time other that “because we want to and we can.”

As soon as that announcement was made some folks formed the Southeast Oklahoma Sportsmen Association. They were mostly old men who were retired and very dependent on vehicular access to the WMA to continue to hunt. While they have done what they can, I decided to try to up the game a bit. I called or emailed every government official who is supposed to represent us, whether on the state or national level. I have contacted the OWD and have had extensive conversations with them about the closures. Initially I suspected the OWD was in cahoots with the Corps on this issue but am now convinced that they are not. The main thing I wanted to get to the bottom of was “Why?” Why the sudden need to declare roads that have been accessible for over a century as “illegal trails” and close them down by erecting barricades.

The answer I have come up with based on conversations with several state biologists and wildlife officials is that there are Native American artifacts down there. That seems to be what they were told. Specifically, arrowheads. This is such a feeble excuse for what is being done. And based upon the new signs that have been put up at the entrances to the WMA I think it is the only reason.

Anyway, I am embarking on something that I have never really done before. I’m helping these guys get their message out. I created a Facebook page and linked an online petition which has garnered over 1100 signatures in less than 3 days. That’s not bad when you consider that our community here has less than 200 people. I am attaching every representative and senators phone # and email, every wildlife official that oversees our region phone # and email and every US Corps of Engineers official who has anything to do with SE Oklahoma’s phone # and email. I will include a letter for members to cut and paste voicing displeasure at the closing of the roads to vehicle access.

I am going to attack the issue from the Disabilities act angle and from the Native American elders angle. I have no lawyer friends but do have a former student who is a district judge. I am hoping he can point me to a lawyer who would do some things for us pro bono. I am contacting television networks letting them know what we are fighting. We may never get anything done to reverse the Corps actions but fortunately this is the United States of America and we can squawk about that with which we disagree.

Too bad I don’t know President Trump. This is the sort of thing he’d probably make a big deal about. 😉
I used to work with subcontractors on Federal land. Any "dig" has to fist be approved a NEPA assessment must be done. And yes, if any artifacts are found it's an "all hand on deck" hysterical blockage of anything.

I dealt with it for over 20 years and despite the red tape enjoyed many success.

Fucking unbunch your panties and learn to deal with life. I swear you trump cultists are the whiniest assholes!
 
I used to work with subcontractors on Federal land. Any "dig" has to fist be approved a NEPA assessment must be done. And yes, if any artifacts are found it's an "all hand on deck" hysterical blockage of anything.

I dealt with it for over 20 years and despite the red tape enjoyed many success.

Fucking unbunch your panties and learn to deal with life. I swear you trump cultists are the whiniest assholes!
The whole of government is like that. I wanted to get a sand blasting cabinet in one of the Navy shops I ran. I was told NO! by the command. So, I researched all the pertinent regulations and such on that ending up with a stack of paperwork about six inches thick. My crowning achievement was a personal letter from (yes, I still remember all this) Bob Blaskowitz, head of the EPA's air quality division out of Research Triangle, NC, that stated that the EPA does not regulate sandblasting and saying that my choice of a sandblasting cabinet with a bag house air filtration system sounded like a great choice. The command relented and I got my cabinet.

It's a death by a thousand paper cuts. Government is the problem, not the solution.
 
The whole of government is like that. I wanted to get a sand blasting cabinet in one of the Navy shops I ran. I was told NO! by the command. So, I researched all the pertinent regulations and such on that ending up with a stack of paperwork about six inches thick. My crowning achievement was a personal letter from (yes, I still remember all this) Bob Blaskowitz, head of the EPA's air quality division out of Research Triangle, NC, that stated that the EPA does not regulate sandblasting and saying that my choice of a sandblasting cabinet with a bag house air filtration system sounded like a great choice. The command relented and I got my cabinet.

It's a death by a thousand paper cuts. Government is the problem, not the solution.
I install machinery now. I run into health and building inspection problems all the time. It's cumbersome but it helps keep us all alive.
 
I install machinery now. I run into health and building inspection problems all the time. It's cumbersome but it helps keep us all alive.
Most of the time, it's bureaucratic overkill. For instance, I did a residential service panel replace. The final inspect was done by video while the "inspector" sat in his fucking kitchen watching me show him the work. WTF use is that?
 
Most of the time, it's bureaucratic overkill. For instance, I did a residential service panel replace. The final inspect was done by video while the "inspector" sat in his fucking kitchen watching me show him the work. WTF use is that?
Yeah, that's a new one. In the end, all my clients pass inspection, and everyone is safer as a result. I had a client recently claim they're first order from us is being delayed to the city building inspector disallowing our equipment, subject to my client building a type of fixture (I'm being blurry here on purpose, because if I tell you what the equipment was it'll pretty much give away who I work for).

So no problem I thought. I have a good relationship with all inspectors, let me handle it. So I asked the client who the particular inspector was - b/c I know most of them in that particular city - his answer, "I don't know". So he was lying. He just didn't have the $ for the opening order. We have the same piece of equipment installed in that same city less than a mile away.

Here's a life lesson for ya, buddy: Sometime customer lie to you :)
 
Yeah, that's a new one. In the end, all my clients pass inspection, and everyone is safer as a result. I had a client recently claim they're first order from us is being delayed to the city building inspector disallowing our equipment, subject to my client building a type of fixture (I'm being blurry here on purpose, because if I tell you what the equipment was it'll pretty much give away who I work for).

So no problem I thought. I have a good relationship with all inspectors, let me handle it. So I asked the client who the particular inspector was - b/c I know most of them in that particular city - his answer, "I don't know". So he was lying. He just didn't have the $ for the opening order. We have the same piece of equipment installed in that same city less than a mile away.

Here's a life lesson for ya, buddy: Sometime customer lie to you :)
omg-duh-rick-and-morty-v40qtjku02w67htm.gif
 
No, no! It' happens :)
There was an episode of Holmes on Homes where he's in California fixing a guy's detached garage to turn it into a dual purpose garage and studio for his work. The guy recounts how the city's building inspector came and told him he couldn't drywall his garage. So, the guy went to the mayor's office and the mayor called the inspector's boss and told him to send the inspector to his office. The inspector arrives, sees dude--the mayor had told the guy previous to his arrival, "What do you mean you can't have drywall in your garage? I have drywall in my garage..."--and the inspector, according to the guy, shits himself.

The mayor asks, "Why can't this guy have drywall in his garage?" The inspector hems and haws about some nonsense. The mayor says, "This guy can have drywall in his garage. You have a problem with that?"



The first story here is the one.
 
Anyone here that knows me knows that I am passionate about a few things. God (but I try not to get involved in those conversations here) and my outdoor activities such as gardening, fishing and hunting. One of the main things I love about my part of Oklahoma is the access we enjoy to public hunting and fishing opportunities. My property borders a 16,000+ acre WMA which has been my playground since I was in the 5th grade.

The WMA is made up of land that was condemned when a flood control lake was built in the 1940’s. It is overseen (owned?) by the US Army Corps of Engineers and leased to the Oklahoma Wildlife Department (OWD). Last October the Corps of Engineers announced that they were going to close at least 10 roads to vehicle access and held a meeting to inform the hunters. No reason was given at that time other that “because we want to and we can.”

As soon as that announcement was made some folks formed the Southeast Oklahoma Sportsmen Association. They were mostly old men who were retired and very dependent on vehicular access to the WMA to continue to hunt. While they have done what they can, I decided to try to up the game a bit. I called or emailed every government official who is supposed to represent us, whether on the state or national level. I have contacted the OWD and have had extensive conversations with them about the closures. Initially I suspected the OWD was in cahoots with the Corps on this issue but am now convinced that they are not. The main thing I wanted to get to the bottom of was “Why?” Why the sudden need to declare roads that have been accessible for over a century as “illegal trails” and close them down by erecting barricades.

The answer I have come up with based on conversations with several state biologists and wildlife officials is that there are Native American artifacts down there. That seems to be what they were told. Specifically, arrowheads. This is such a feeble excuse for what is being done. And based upon the new signs that have been put up at the entrances to the WMA I think it is the only reason.

Anyway, I am embarking on something that I have never really done before. I’m helping these guys get their message out. I created a Facebook page and linked an online petition which has garnered over 1100 signatures in less than 3 days. That’s not bad when you consider that our community here has less than 200 people. I am attaching every representative and senators phone # and email, every wildlife official that oversees our region phone # and email and every US Corps of Engineers official who has anything to do with SE Oklahoma’s phone # and email. I will include a letter for members to cut and paste voicing displeasure at the closing of the roads to vehicle access.

I am going to attack the issue from the Disabilities act angle and from the Native American elders angle. I have no lawyer friends but do have a former student who is a district judge. I am hoping he can point me to a lawyer who would do some things for us pro bono. I am contacting television networks letting them know what we are fighting. We may never get anything done to reverse the Corps actions but fortunately this is the United States of America and we can squawk about that with which we disagree.

Too bad I don’t know President Trump. This is the sort of thing he’d probably make a big deal about. 😉
Trump is the CIC of the Army Corps of Engineers.
 
Anyone here that knows me knows that I am passionate about a few things. God (but I try not to get involved in those conversations here) and my outdoor activities such as gardening, fishing and hunting. One of the main things I love about my part of Oklahoma is the access we enjoy to public hunting and fishing opportunities. My property borders a 16,000+ acre WMA which has been my playground since I was in the 5th grade.

The WMA is made up of land that was condemned when a flood control lake was built in the 1940’s. It is overseen (owned?) by the US Army Corps of Engineers and leased to the Oklahoma Wildlife Department (OWD). Last October the Corps of Engineers announced that they were going to close at least 10 roads to vehicle access and held a meeting to inform the hunters. No reason was given at that time other that “because we want to and we can.”

As soon as that announcement was made some folks formed the Southeast Oklahoma Sportsmen Association. They were mostly old men who were retired and very dependent on vehicular access to the WMA to continue to hunt. While they have done what they can, I decided to try to up the game a bit. I called or emailed every government official who is supposed to represent us, whether on the state or national level. I have contacted the OWD and have had extensive conversations with them about the closures. Initially I suspected the OWD was in cahoots with the Corps on this issue but am now convinced that they are not. The main thing I wanted to get to the bottom of was “Why?” Why the sudden need to declare roads that have been accessible for over a century as “illegal trails” and close them down by erecting barricades.

The answer I have come up with based on conversations with several state biologists and wildlife officials is that there are Native American artifacts down there. That seems to be what they were told. Specifically, arrowheads. This is such a feeble excuse for what is being done. And based upon the new signs that have been put up at the entrances to the WMA I think it is the only reason.

Anyway, I am embarking on something that I have never really done before. I’m helping these guys get their message out. I created a Facebook page and linked an online petition which has garnered over 1100 signatures in less than 3 days. That’s not bad when you consider that our community here has less than 200 people. I am attaching every representative and senators phone # and email, every wildlife official that oversees our region phone # and email and every US Corps of Engineers official who has anything to do with SE Oklahoma’s phone # and email. I will include a letter for members to cut and paste voicing displeasure at the closing of the roads to vehicle access.

I am going to attack the issue from the Disabilities act angle and from the Native American elders angle. I have no lawyer friends but do have a former student who is a district judge. I am hoping he can point me to a lawyer who would do some things for us pro bono. I am contacting television networks letting them know what we are fighting. We may never get anything done to reverse the Corps actions but fortunately this is the United States of America and we can squawk about that with which we disagree.

Too bad I don’t know President Trump. This is the sort of thing he’d probably make a big deal about. 😉
Really? DonOld’s trying to sell off parks and limit access to them by limiting personnel to manage parks.

All DonOld cares about right now is getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

Maybe, you can frame your appeal to him saying you’ll nominate him for the prize.
 
Really? DonOld’s trying to sell off parks and limit access to them by limiting personnel to manage parks.

All DonOld cares about right now is getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

Maybe, you can frame your appeal to him saying you’ll nominate him for the prize.
He may just get it too. 😉

I figured I’d use his love for telling people what to do to my advantage. Especially when it’s telling a Federal Agency how to do things. Of course I’m thinking of his fondness for the FBI at them moment so maybe I’d paint the Corps in the same light.

As to selling the parks a such, I’d settle for putting the land around lakes back under state control and oversight. Oklahoma is much easier to deal with than the Corps of Engineers. My place borders the Corps land (really it is state land under their oversight) and they are a piece of work. They think they are the end all and be all of decision making. They may be but I have lost no love for this Federal Agency…who are a bunch of bullies, just like Trump would like to be. That’s why I’d like to see them battle it out. It would be more entertaining than his meetings with Putin and Zelenskyy. I think Trump could actually come out ahead dealing with the Corps. 😀
 
I used to work with subcontractors on Federal land. Any "dig" has to fist be approved a NEPA assessment must be done. And yes, if any artifacts are found it's an "all hand on deck" hysterical blockage of anything.

I dealt with it for over 20 years and despite the red tape enjoyed many success.

Fucking unbunch your panties and learn to deal with life. I swear you trump cultists are the whiniest assholes!
so you agree with dumb bullshit.

yes.

you are part of the problem.
 
I used to work with subcontractors on Federal land. Any "dig" has to fist be approved a NEPA assessment must be done. And yes, if any artifacts are found it's an "all hand on deck" hysterical blockage of anything.

I dealt with it for over 20 years and despite the red tape enjoyed many success.

Fucking unbunch your panties and learn to deal with life. I swear you trump cultists are the whiniest assholes!
Umm,....WHY on Earth are you disrespecting one of the few truly NICE people here at JPP? You are barking up the wrong tree here. Leaning causes NOBODY any trouble,...EVER. Save your trash talk for those who may deserve it,....he is not one of them.
 
I used to work with subcontractors on Federal land. Any "dig" has to fist be approved a NEPA assessment must be done. And yes, if any artifacts are found it's an "all hand on deck" hysterical blockage of anything.

I dealt with it for over 20 years and despite the red tape enjoyed many success.

Fucking unbunch your panties and learn to deal with life. I swear you trump cultists are the whiniest assholes!
Ain't it da trooth!
 
He may just get it too. 😉

I figured I’d use his love for telling people what to do to my advantage. Especially when it’s telling a Federal Agency how to do things. Of course I’m thinking of his fondness for the FBI at them moment so maybe I’d paint the Corps in the same light.

As to selling the parks a such, I’d settle for putting the land around lakes back under state control and oversight. Oklahoma is much easier to deal with than the Corps of Engineers. My place borders the Corps land (really it is state land under their oversight) and they are a piece of work. They think they are the end all and be all of decision making. They may be but I have lost no love for this Federal Agency…who are a bunch of bullies, just like Trump would like to be. That’s why I’d like to see them battle it out. It would be more entertaining than his meetings with Putin and Zelenskyy. I think Trump could actually come out ahead dealing with the Corps. 😀
Here's the deal chuckles: the Native people who were here over a millennia before folk looking like you and me showed up were screwed to the point were what land they can hold onto is a mere pittance of what use to be. Jokers like you who benefit from the lies, near genocide and thievery bitch and moan about property and ownership. Tough toenails bunky, the law is what it is. You're not dying or going broke or hungry...and you sure as shit don't wholly subsist on hunting game. So it boils down to you just can't stand being told NO....like a petulant child.

Boo-F***ing-Hoo!
 
Here's the deal chuckles: the Native people who were here over a millennia before folk looking like you and me showed up were screwed to the point were what land they can hold onto is a mere pittance of what use to be. Jokers like you who benefit from the lies, near genocide and thievery bitch and moan about property and ownership. Tough toenails bunky, the law is what it is. You're not dying or going broke or hungry...and you sure as shit don't wholly subsist on hunting game. So it boils down to you just can't stand being told NO....like a petulant child.

Boo-F***ing-Hoo!
LOL…Native people. I’ll take the name “chuckles” because that’s exactly what I did when I read this post.
 
lol at arrowheads being 'treasured artifacts' n stuff'. What a bogus load of shit. If they were so 'treasured', they wouldn't be lying around on the ground. Sounds like bureaucrats just being assholes. Ever been to an indian reservation? Are those rusted out cars and appliances lying around in the meth needles, beer cans and trash artifacts too? I mean, who knows how many Paiutes have wizzed on them by now.
 
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