Happy Indigenous People's Day!

volsrock said:
So u support a corporation not having to pay corporate income tax, because they use their own land?
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You're a fucking moron who supports a stolen valor cocksucker. I support following the law.

You are free to support breaking another Yankee treaty with the Indians but I disagree.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello evince,



I agree it is a day to celebrate our fascinating diversity.

We benefit from cultural diversity.

We might not even be the USA if not for the Code-Talkers.
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Actually, the Navajo Code-Talkers while a very clever and neat idea, made ZERO difference in the War in the Pacific.

Code-Talkers were tactical radio operators. That is, they performed battlefield communications at battalion and regimental level within only the USMC. This was because these communications were normally not encrypted and the USMC was worried the Japanese might listen in on these radio channels gaining information that could be used on the immediate battlefield.
There were a few things the Marines (and Army) didn't know at the time that pretty much precluded that from happening at all. Most US (both Marine and Army) tactical radios by 1944 were FM sets, something the IJA completely lacked. That is, the Japanese didn't have radio receivers in service that could even pick up US tactical communications. Second, the Japanese had few radio sets in service at all in most field units. Runners were the norm for communications.
Third, for many applications like artillery fire control, most of the communications system ran on field telephones not radios. The US used a two-wire telephone system (unlike older one-wire ground return) that was immune to enemy interception unless the enemy could physically tap the phone line.
So, the whole Code-Talker program was really mostly just a waste of time. Yes, it was, and is, a neat idea to use an obscure language to encrypt radio communications real-time and in that sense it worked brilliantly. Too bad the enemy wasn't listening...
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Actually, the Navajo Code-Talkers while a very clever and neat idea, made ZERO difference in the War in the Pacific.

Code-Talkers were tactical radio operators. That is, they performed battlefield communications at battalion and regimental level within only the USMC. This was because these communications were normally not encrypted and the USMC was worried the Japanese might listen in on these radio channels gaining information that could be used on the immediate battlefield.
There were a few things the Marines (and Army) didn't know at the time that pretty much precluded that from happening at all. Most US (both Marine and Army) tactical radios by 1944 were FM sets, something the IJA completely lacked. That is, the Japanese didn't have radio receivers in service that could even pick up US tactical communications. Second, the Japanese had few radio sets in service at all in most field units. Runners were the norm for communications.
Third, for many applications like artillery fire control, most of the communications system ran on field telephones not radios. The US used a two-wire telephone system (unlike older one-wire ground return) that was immune to enemy interception unless the enemy could physically tap the phone line.
So, the whole Code-Talker program was really mostly just a waste of time. Yes, it was, and is, a neat idea to use an obscure language to encrypt radio communications real-time and in that sense it worked brilliantly. Too bad the enemy wasn't listening...
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If the entire program saved the life of one Marine, would you be for it or against it?

You are one of the few people on the forum who should appreciate the fog of war. It was a great fucking idea. The whole point of war is to defeat the enemy while saving as many friendly lives as possible.

How does the cost of turning Navajos into radiomen compare to an effort to complete the mission and protect the troops?
 
Phantasmal said:
volsrock said:
How bout a human right leg or a tasty human foot

American Indians practiced cannibalism
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Many ancient tribal societies did, what’s your point besides your bigotry?
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As Americans know from a few incidents of our own involving cannibalism. The Donner Party being among the most famous.

Not that I see the point of a taboo that says you can't both kill and eat your enemy slowly roasted over an open fire.

Does anyone know how many canned meat factories the Mafia owns? LOL

IIRC, humans taste a lot like pork.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
If the entire program saved the life of one Marine, would you be for it or against it?

You are one of the few people on the forum who should appreciate the fog of war. It was a great fucking idea. The whole point of war is to defeat the enemy while saving as many friendly lives as possible.

How does the cost of turning Navajos into radiomen compare to an effort to complete the mission and protect the troops?
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Complex question fallacy. But the program was in hindsight, completely worthless in it's goal. Encrypting battlefield communications in the Pacific was completely unnecessary due to the state of Japanese communications intercept equipment.
Higher US communications (Division, corps, etc.) was encrypted by normal code means and it too was secure because the Japanese hadn't broken those codes and even if they had, they had little means to make real-time use of the information due to the time it would have taken to decrypt a message for them.

Even at sea, the US was streets ahead of the Japanese. Japanese naval / ship radios were mostly HF and MF AM modulated sets that were dated by 1940. For tactical communications these sets were very easily intercepted by US operators would could easily listen in. Many of these sets were key (Morse code) only as well. At the same time, US tactical shipboard communications used UHF and VHF sets like TBS (Talk Between Ships) that were FM voice and line-of-sight. That made them secure by design alone.

The Germans on the other hand had a very good Y-Deinst service that would and could listen on on everything they intercepted. In North Africa it gave Rommel a big advantage over the British who transmitted orders in the clear while the Germans took precautions and encrypted their low level comms. Against the Germans the Code-Talkers would have been more useful, but as a USMC only program they were limited to the Pacific War.
 
Phantasmal said:
That sacred brew helped me pass time when our truck died after we didn’t switch gas tanks in time in a blizzard outside of Limon, CO. Thank goodness a rancher was out checking his cattle.
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My favorite college professor was Ron Smith, a 50ish philosopher who looked 70ish smoking unfiltered Camels and slamming away six shots of Wild Turkey at a single sitting. Really cool guy tortured by his own demons. I took every class he taught.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
My favorite college professor was Ron Smith, a 50ish philosopher who looked 70ish smoking unfiltered Camels and slamming away six shots of Wild Turkey at a single sitting. Really cool guy tortured by his own demons. I took every class he taught.
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I know a Ron Smith, he’s a Shaman
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Complex question fallacy. But the program was in hindsight...
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Cue Operation Hindsight by engaging all Monday morning quarterbackers in a full assault overlooking my point.

T. A. Gardner said:
Encrypting battlefield communications in the Pacific was completely unnecessary due to the state of Japanese communications intercept equipment.
Higher US communications (Division, corps, etc.) was encrypted by normal code means and it too was secure because the Japanese hadn't broken those codes and even if they had, they had little means to make real-time use of the information due to the time it would have taken to decrypt a message for them.

Even at sea, the US was streets ahead of the Japanese. Japanese naval / ship radios were mostly HF and MF AM modulated sets that were dated by 1940. For tactical communications these sets were very easily intercepted by US operators would could easily listen in. Many of these sets were key (Morse code) only as well. At the same time, US tactical shipboard communications used UHF and VHF sets like TBS (Talk Between Ships) that were FM voice and line-of-sight. That made them secure by design alone.

The Germans on the other hand had a very good Y-Deinst service that would and could listen on on everything they intercepted. In North Africa it gave Rommel a big advantage over the British who transmitted orders in the clear while the Germans took precautions and encrypted their low level comms. Against the Germans the Code-Talkers would have been more useful, but as a USMC only program they were limited to the Pacific War.
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Again, unless you are asserting that the commanders of the time knew all of this and "wasted" money on it anyway, then what is your point? That if we had a couple of F-14s like in the movie "Final Countdown" we would have ended the war on December 7th?

You're an expert on history but it seems like you want to revise history by claiming it was a major fuck up and waste of money to train a bunch of fucking Indians how to use a radio. Please correct me where I am wrong.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Cue Operation Hindsight by engaging all Monday morning quarterbackers in a full assault overlooking my point.


Again, unless you are asserting that the commanders of the time knew all of this and "wasted" money on it anyway, then what is your point? That if we had a couple of F-14s like in the movie "Final Countdown" we would have ended the war on December 7th?

You're an expert on history but it seems like you want to revise history by claiming it was a major fuck up and waste of money to train a bunch of fucking Indians how to use a radio. Please correct me where I am wrong.
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It is in hindsight. The program made sense at the time and really didn't cost the USMC much to implement. But in hindsight it was unnecessary and to the original point I was addressing, made no difference to the outcome of the Pacific War.
 
Micawber said:
Happy 240 years of white male privilege and you still don't have a pot to piss in day!!!
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Only for the Beta Male losers whining about not having a government tit to suck on.

2pkerh.jpg
 
T. A. Gardner said:
It is in hindsight. The program made sense at the time and really didn't cost the USMC much to implement. But in hindsight it was unnecessary and to the original point I was addressing, made no difference to the outcome of the Pacific War.
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Agreed on hindsight. While hindsight is great for learning, in such a situation again, would such a program be implemented, even if only within a company sized unit?

If a company had four Polish speaking radiomen, do you agree it would be wise to put one in each platoon? A tactical advantage, however slight, is still an advantage, right?

In the case of the Windtalkers, the Marine Corps needed radio operators. Qualified radio operators. If they couldn't operate the fucking radio, they weren't needed. The Marine Corps isn't Goddamn charity. The Marine Corps made good use of their assets for a tactical edge in a time when tactical radio communications (manpack or handheld) were not encrypted.

Using the Navajos was a great fucking idea even if it only saved the life of one Marine.
 
Cypress said:
That is just frightening.

I wonder how many rightwing posters were sweet on she-male Terry
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ROFLMAO.....more frightening for some when it's found out how many had cybersexed with "Terri" AKA Terry O'Brian, stolen valor cocksucker, over the past year or so when "she" first showed up.

Notice how not a single one of them has called Terry O'Brien on being a stolen valor cocksucker? I think Terry is blackmailing them into silence. How long before Terry twists the arm of the worst offender to actually "defend her honor"? :laugh:
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Agreed on hindsight. While hindsight is great for learning, in such a situation again, would such a program be implemented, even if only within a company sized unit?

If a company had four Polish speaking radiomen, do you agree it would be wise to put one in each platoon? A tactical advantage, however slight, is still an advantage, right?

In the case of the Windtalkers, the Marine Corps needed radio operators. Qualified radio operators. If they couldn't operate the fucking radio, they weren't needed. The Marine Corps isn't Goddamn charity. The Marine Corps made good use of their assets for a tactical edge in a time when tactical radio communications (manpack or handheld) were not encrypted.

Using the Navajos was a great fucking idea even if it only saved the life of one Marine.
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The USMC was a volunteer service. They took almost no draftees during WW 2. Indigenous tribes in America were not subject to the draft, so all USMC Navajo who participated in this program were volunteers.

And, yes there were actually other units in the US military where language or other traits were selected for. There was a Norwegian battalion (the 99th) formed for a planned mission to invade Norway. The unit selected for language. US Army railroad operating units were comprised almost entirely of personnel who worked civilian jobs for railroads and were often inducted at advanced rank based on their civilian position and skill level.

That's two examples.

On casualties... There was a different mindset back then. Casualties were expected. It was part of being in the military. While the military didn't want to frivolously throw away lives, they weren't hesitant to accept heavy casualties as part of mission accomplishment. That has changed today starting about the Carter / post Vietnam era. So, no program was going to be looked at as "saving lives" but rather "will it help win the war."
 
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