US vs Communism can US succeed today as it did against USSR??

[anatta]

I think it will be terminal if changes are not made, & even then it may already be to late...

The last century is considered the American century but we didn't do it alone by any stretch, we had partners, alliances, built organizations & world bodies w/ rules & understandings..... While currently the USA is pulling away from those, those partners & allies are not~they are going on w/out us..

Is that in our long term strategic & economic best interest??

Simultaneously China-Asia, other parts of the world are building on those & forming new ones w/out our leadership or even desire to be part of them..

no, we still have our treaties. Europe has turned inward wit the EU -they are not interested in
"building organizations & world bodies w/ rules & understandings."otherwise.

The great tragedy for the US was stupidly abandoning Russia to China;s clutches -we forced Putin to establish a close economic and military relationship to Xi by sanctions

 

[Cypress]

I agree about "too much credit" but disagree the Cold War is over with Russia...If anything we are in Cold War 2.0 with constant NATO expansion, war games on Russia's border and now the demise of the INF treaty

It does not feel like the cold war I grew up with.

Both the U.S. and the Russian Federation have legitimate grievances against each other, which nonetheless I do not see plausibly having the potential to result in war, in the way the potential existed from the 1950s through 80s.

The fact is when one nation, one superpower, exerts quasi hegemony over the world, other competitor nations are going to see it in their interest to balance, offset, and coopt some of that power. As long as we desire to be the world's only hegemonic superpower, that is just the way international relations are going to play out. It is a natural consequence of international relations, but I do not think it means we are in a cold war or that there is an credible threat of a hot war. I have been around long enough to remember that world war 3 was supposed to have broken out about 20 times by now

 

[Legion]

Biden is an idiot.

The Biden crime family has been considerably enriched by the Beijing regime.

 

[Cypress]

HHhhhmmm, thnx for your two cents.... To be honest I am not specially concerned or interested much about Cuba, China~CCP more specially..

How the USSR decomposed is certainly open to debate but it came about economically, IMHO, & not militarily-there was no battle field victory, as they say..

The CCP is our competitor, rival, adversary~ can we compete??

Can we compete economically as we did in our rivalry w/ the USSR??

I think we can but not on the path we have been going down since the cold war ended, & more specifically since 2001-9/11 & the dick & bush regime change missions/China allowed into the WTO...

While we wasted life & treasure doing so, they have been forming relationships & building their economy @ staggering rates..

In the 21st century America has had two of the worst leaders in our nation's history, George Dumbya Bush and Donald Trumpf. I maintain that is part of the reason for America's declining reputation in the world.

 

[StoneByStone]

We never defeated Russian Socialism.

If the Hildebeast had won in 2016, ... we, like the North Koreans, would never be able to escape the death spiral of Socialism.

Hillary is LITERALLY STALIN!

 

[Bill]

no, we still have our treaties. Europe has turned inward wit the EU -they are not interested in
"building organizations & world bodies w/ rules & understandings."otherwise.

The great tragedy for the US was stupidly abandoning Russia to China;s clutches -we forced Putin to establish a close economic and military relationship to Xi by sanctions

They already built them, now others are & some in Europe, that have been around a lot longer than 250 years are looking towards their future-Italy & Greece recently cut a deal seeing the future here->

 

[Bill]

The great tragedy for the US was stupidly abandoning Russia to China;s clutches -we forced Putin to establish a close economic and military relationship to Xi by sanctions

What did you & trump lose??

Calif GDP alone dwarfs that failed state.. You need to get over it now anywayz..

 

[Bill]

In the 21st century America has had two of the worst leaders in our nation's history, George Dumbya Bush and Donald Trumpf. I maintain that is part of the reason for America's declining reputation in the world.

Why you go & take all the fun out of it......

Is really a stroke of extremely good luck for China or just a really bad luck on US but not only did we have bush get elected, but we had China coming into the WTO then as well...

He never seemed to notice, but wallstreet certainly did~ there were now 900,000,000 more workers to exploit..

bush/American politicians were just to distracted w/ "good wars" & building dumbocracies to notice the rocketing growth & reach of China..

So while we were wasting trillions in treasure fighting fruitless wars, China was making money, building super MegaCities, expanding influence~ pulling their ppl out of poverty while the bottom 50% of ours was edging closer to it...

IMHO historically looking back this tiny time frame will be seen as pivotal & a disastrous turn of events for the future of the USA & the west..

TO say trump could not have come @ a worse time is to assume there was some time when it would be not so bad.........

While he sees what most politicians don't about CCP & I have to give him cred for that, the question still remains is what he is doing in our long term best interest??

His deal w/ CHina is mostly unknown & undone & I honestly don't believe it will put much of a dent in their trajectory, or our own..

The worst possible thing he could do is isolate the USA from the world bodies & treaties we put together.. Shitting on & bullying allies is icing on the shit cake, add a pandemic & tariffs you got a recipe for disaster..........

China has a plan for 2025, 2030 etc etc etc, he is obsessed w/ this November, a blind man can see a disconnect, a real problem here... or maybe not!!

 

[anatta]

Why you go & take all the fun out of it......

Is really a stroke of extremely good luck for China or just a really bad luck on US but not only did we have bush get elected, but we had China coming into the WTO then as well...

He never seemed to notice, but wallstreet certainly did~ there were now 900,000,000 more workers to exploit..

bush/American politicians were just to distracted w/ "good wars" & building dumbocracies to notice the rocketing growth & reach of China..

So while we were wasting trillions in treasure fighting fruitless wars, China was making money, building super MegaCities, expanding influence~ pulling their ppl out of poverty while the bottom 50% of ours was edging closer to it...

IMHO historically looking back this tiny time frame will be seen as pivotal & a disastrous turn of events for the future of the USA & the west..

nice detailed anaylsis -I could not do better then to describe the
Rise of China thru our neglect and WTO trade rules of "China as a developing nation"

This is exactly what Trump campaigned as well -and the cure is economic nationalism.
It sounds like going alone and it is -but bilateral trade agreement greatly favor the USA because
we are/were the worlds largest economy. it gives us leverage

TO say trump could not have come @ a worse time is to assume there was some time when it would be not so bad.........

cognitive dissonance to the above

While he sees what most politicians don't about CCP & I have to give him cred for that, the question still remains is what he is doing in our long term best interest??

what have ANY of them done?
Obama wanted to entangle us in the TPP. Bush you described (out to lunch).
Clinton was a free trader, but thought that meant globalism - it didn't under WTO rules and Chinese IP theft etc.

His deal w/ CHina is mostly unknown & undone & I honestly don't believe it will put much of a dent in their trajectory, or our own..

phase 1. if he gets re-elected he has 4 more years to advance it

The worst possible thing he could do is isolate the USA from the world bodies & treaties we put together.. Shitting on & bullying allies is icing on the shit cake, add a pandemic & tariffs you got a recipe for disaster..........

world bodies do not help the USA or our economy. we don't partner -we rival with the EU trade block as well

China has a plan for 2025, 2030 etc etc etc, he is obsessed w/ this November, a blind man can see a disconnect, a real problem here... or maybe not!!

I leave this terrifying thought w/ you in terms of China..PRESIDENT BIDEN

 

[anatta]

What did you & trump lose??

Calif GDP alone dwarfs that failed state.. You need to get over it now anywayz..

stated foreign policy of the USA was triangulation of China/Russia for 40 years until Obama/Congress turned on Russia

Obama let the Russian reset devolve into piecemeal sanctions because of the meddling of his own State Dept in the Euromaidan.. Benign neglect doesnt even begin to describe it

 

[anatta]

It does not feel like the cold war I grew up with.

its centered over Europe and not MAD. For Europe it's verymuch Cold War 2.0

Both the U.S. and the Russian Federation have legitimate grievances against each other, which nonetheless I do not see plausibly having the potential to result in war, in the way the potential existed from the 1950s through 80s

agree/ we are much more likely to get in a skirmish with Russia in the Black Sea for ex over shipping rights.
(Territorial claims) . or something stupid like Donbass becoming a trip wire

The fact is when one nation, one superpower, exerts quasi hegemony over the world, other competitor nations are going to see it in their interest to balance, offset, and coopt some of that power. As long as we desire to be the world's only hegemonic superpower, that is just the way international relations are going to play out. It is a natural consequence of international relations, but I do not think it means we are in a cold war or that there is an credible threat of a hot war. I have been around long enough to remember that world war 3 was supposed to have broken out about 20 times by now

agree again. Nations practice nationalism of hard and soft power.

There is also the alienation of the West/USA to Russia and China.
That again violates US policy of letting China and Russia merge into a threat

 

[Bill]

nice detailed anaylsis -I could not do better then to describe the
Rise of China thru our neglect and WTO trade rules of "China as a developing nation"

This is exactly what Trump campaigned as well -and the cure is economic nationalism.
It sounds like going alone and it is -but bilateral trade agreement greatly favor the USA because
we are/were the worlds largest economy. it gives us leverage

cognitive dissonance to the above
what have ANY of them done?
Obama wanted to entangle us in the TPP. Bush you described (out to lunch).
Clinton was a free trader, but thought that meant globalism - it didn't under WTO rules and Chinese IP theft etc.

phase 1. if he gets re-elected he has 4 more years to advance it

world bodies do not help the USA or our economy. we don't partner -we rival with the EU trade block as well
I leave this terrifying thought w/ you in terms of China..PRESIDENT BIDEN

Bi-lateral, like there aint a 1.4 billion hungery workers some place itching to get on any deal??

I have little faith in his prowess to cut a great deal, he reworked a few lines in NAFTA & you would think he found a way to turn soda cans into gold..

TPP wasn't a great deal, IMHO he should have attempted to rework it, not just walk away..

I hope it's successful & works for those that are running w/ it......

Biden on this issue is certainly horrible.. I'm not voting for him.. Nor trump, eventhough on this issue he is probably the lesser evil.. Really a tough call, like would you rather be killed by a pitch fork or strangled by Teflon Don??

 

[Bill]

stated foreign policy of the USA was triangulation of China/Russia for 40 years until Obama/Congress turned on Russia

Obama let the Russian reset devolve into piecemeal sanctions because of the meddling of his own State Dept in the Euromaidan.. Benign neglect doesnt even begin to describe it

Well as I have said already countless times, I don't support that, it is not our business.... & if it was we'd still be wrong on this..

But that is part of the problem we are in & why China isn't, @ least not to the same external extent...

Is there some magic #, some X amount of trillions is just to much & we can't afford the luxury of having our nose up everybody elses butt??

Last night I was reading a story by an American diplomat in east Africa, he was working on something w/ the other diplomat & leader..

@ one point he starts listing the contingencies & the leader gets a sour face & indigent & says you want all this & the Chinese come in here & build a super highway, no questions asked, & you want transparency........... He said he stood there a few moments stunned as they walked away..

That is the new reality..

 

[anatta]

Well as I have said already countless times, I don't support that, it is not our business.... & if it was we'd still be wrong on this..

what? are we not supposed to play realpolitik??
The consequence is a super menace: Russian fine weaponry/engineering backed by Chinese money to advance their hegemony -while Russian economy is subsidized by China

But that is part of the problem we are in & why China isn't, @ least not to the same external extent...

Is there some magic #, some X amount of trillions is just to much & we can't afford the luxury of having our nose up everybody elses butt??

Last night I was reading a story by an American diplomat in east Africa, he was working on something w/ the other diplomat & leader..

@ one point he starts listing the contingencies & the leader gets a sour face & indigent & says you want all this & the Chinese come in here & build a super highway, no questions asked, & you want transparency........... He said he stood there a few moments stunned as they walked away..

That is the new reality..

China has used soft power while we pursued interventionism

 

[anatta]

Bi-lateral, like there aint a 1.4 billion hungery workers some place itching to get on any deal??

I have little faith in his prowess to cut a great deal, he reworked a few lines in NAFTA & you would think he found a way to turn soda cans into gold..

TPP wasn't a great deal, IMHO he should have attempted to rework it, not just walk away..

I hope it's successful & works for those that are running w/ it......

Biden on this issue is certainly horrible.. I'm not voting for him.. Nor trump, eventhough on this issue he is probably the lesser evil.. Really a tough call, like would you rather be killed by a pitch fork or strangled by Teflon Don??

TPP could not be "reworked" is was presented by Obama as an international executive agreement.
Congress could only reject it

NAFTA 2 is far superior in that it shuts out Chinese supply chains and helps Mexican labor, which helps reduce outsourcing to Mexico, protect IP etc.

 

[Bill]

what? are we not supposed to play realpolitik??
The consequence is a super menace: Russian fine weaponry/engineering backed by Chinese money to advance their hegemony -while Russian economy is subsidized by China

China has used soft power while we pursued interventionism

?? You just blow a bowl??

Not going to go over it again-regarding the russian relationship w/ Ukraine/Crimea..

Soft power is cheap power... They built 24 mega cities the size of hong kong w/ the most modern trains & airports etc etc etc, look/compare @ JFK & Amtrack

Our infrastructure is crumbling but we got trillions to waste in central asia & when we are finally gone someday it will look worse than when we arrived twenty fuckin years ago.......

 

[anatta]

?? You just blow a bowl??

Not going to go over it again-regarding the russian relationship w/ Ukraine/Crimea..

Soft power is cheap power... They built 24 mega cities the size of hong kong w/ the most modern trains & airports etc etc etc, look/compare @ JFK & Amtrack

Our infrastructure is crumbling but we got trillions to waste in central asia & when we are finally gone someday it will look worse than when we arrived twenty fuckin years ago.......

you have been snarky of late..realpolitik is projected hard power. soft power works where hard power is too expensive or not appropriate. Interventionism is a guaranteed FUBAR

 

[Bill]

you have been snarky of late..realpolitik is projected hard power. soft power works where hard power is too expensive or not appropriate. Interventionism is a guaranteed FUBAR

It happens, as you know, well prob not when you are doing it. lol

Anyway, this is like we are having to conversations in different languages...

So we are clear-I do not support the actions taken the US & EU against russia related to the Crimea..

Don't agree or support the lies starting w/ East Germany eastward..

My reference to softpower was a reference to China, not russia.......

 

[anatta]

It happens, as you know, well prob not when you are doing it. lol

Anyway, this is like we are having to conversations in different languages...

So we are clear-I do not support the actions taken the US & EU against russia related to the Crimea..

Don't agree or support the lies starting w/ East Germany eastward..

My reference to softpower was a reference to China, not russia.......

OK good enough.. glad to hear it

 

[Earl]

My two cents: the Cold War is over, and I do not think our interests are served by refighting the cold war against Cuba or China. As a liberal democracy, we ideally should be advocates for human rights and international law.

As for the USSR, I feel like Americans give themselves way too much credit for the demise of the Soviets. It was long standing internal structural weaknesses, latent nationalism, and the efforts of Russians Balts, Ukranisns, central Asians themselves who transformed their nations. Bedtime for Bonzo had almost nothing to do with it

We are not a liberal democracy, Snowflake, we are a Constitutional Republic and the cold war with the USSR was won by President Reagan.

SDI — the Strategic Defense Initiative. It put the Soviet military in a state of fear and shock. A decade later, a top Soviet strategist revealed what he had told the Politburo at the time: “Not only could we not defeat SDI, SDI defeated all our possible countermeasures.”