If Paul Manafort wins...

Frank Apisa said:
I give up. Why?
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I don't know why. Can you speculate? I cannot.

It seems to me that any rational person with dirt to give up who would want to "flip" would do it by now.

If you had something to give the prosecutors that could get Trump or someone really close to Trump then:

Why allow yourself to be put in prison?
Why spend all that money on a defense?
Why allow your name to be dragged through the mud for months on end?


Why not just give up the information right off the bat?

If Manafort had dirt on Trump that could get him impeached and/or landed in jail, he would be hailed as a hero. All would be forgiven.
The stories would be "people screw up our complicated tax laws all the time because they are so vague"
He would have a lifetime spot as an "analyst" on PMSNBC or CNN
Songs would be written about how he saved the Republic from the evil President Trump

How loyal can he be to Trump? He wasn't with the campaign that long. I don't know of any real long standing relationship between the two.

So the question remains. If Manafort had some dirt to dish, why hasn't he done it yet?

Does it make sense to you?
 
Jarod said:
My theory is that Gates beat Manafort to it and gave Mueller everything Manafort had.

The fact that they are sealing part of Friday's sidebar due to an ongoing investigation adds to my theory.
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So you are saying that Gates gave information to Mueller about Trump colluding with Russia? And you are also saying that because Gates "flipped" that precludes Manafort from "flipping"?

I ain't no high faluting lawyer like you GayRod, but I would think that if I were a prosecutor and I was trying to land the big whale, I would want all the witnesses I could get don't you agree? Why get one if you can get two? Wouldn't having two strengthen your case? Why would it hurt Mueller to give immunity to more than one person? Is there some unwritten rule that you can only have one person flip on a target?

Please elaborate GayRod
 
Teflon Don said:
So you are saying that Gates gave information to Mueller about Trump colluding with Russia? And you are also saying that because Gates "flipped" that precludes Manafort from "flipping"?

I ain't no high faluting lawyer like you GayRod, but I would think that if I were a prosecutor and I was trying to land the big whale, I would want all the witnesses I could get don't you agree? Why get one if you can get two? Wouldn't having two strengthen your case? Why would it hurt Mueller to give immunity to more than one person? Is there some unwritten rule that you can only have one person flip on a target?

Please elaborate GayRod
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No, I am not saying that.

It appears Gates gave Mueller something more than just what he had against Manafort... Evidence against Trump, I don't know, evidence about collusion, I don't know.

Prosecutors do not give immunity to two different people for the same evidence. You have too simplistic a view. There is a rule against cumulative evidence and they don't like to give up their pound of flesh.

IT its likely Manafort and Gates knew the exact same information and where the corroborating evidence is, The key is not the value of the word of these men, because they are already criminals... the value is in the corroborating evidence. They are not just offering to testify under oath, they are offering to lead the investigation to the corroborating evidence because their word alone is basically meaningless. So... Gates leading them to the evidence is just as powerful as Manafort, and they are not giving up a prosecution to two people for the same evidence.
 
Jarod said:
No, I am not saying that.

It appears Gates gave Mueller something more than just what he had against Manafort... Evidence against Trump, I don't know, evidence about collusion, I don't know.

Prosecutors do not give immunity to two different people for the same evidence. You have too simplistic a view. There is a rule against cumulative evidence and they don't like to give up their pound of flesh.

IT its likely Manafort and Gates knew the exact same information and where the corroborating evidence is, The key is not the value of the word of these men, because they are already criminals... the value is in the corroborating evidence. They are not just offering to testify under oath, they are offering to lead the investigation to the corroborating evidence because their word alone is basically meaningless. So... Gates leading them to the evidence is just as powerful as Manafort, and they are not giving up a prosecution to two people for the same evidence.
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It appears Gates gave them something else? Please cite or are you just pulling that out of your ass?

You have been wrong about this whole thing from the get go. When Manafort was indicted you were convinced that he would sing right away. You are never right
 
Manafort won't flip unless he goes into witness protection.

The Russians would novichok him and his family
 
Teflon Don said:
It appears Gates gave them something else? Please cite or are you just pulling that out of your ass?

You have been wrong about this whole thing from the get go. When Manafort was indicted you were convinced that he would sing right away. You are never right
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I saw the article on Foxnews.com, but I just looked and cant find it. Basically it explained that during Friday morning's sidebar... The discussion, about a portion of Gates testimony, was placed under seal and kept confidential because it was directly related to an "open investigation".
 
Teflon Don said:
I don't know why. Can you speculate? I cannot.

It seems to me that any rational person with dirt to give up who would want to "flip" would do it by now.

If you had something to give the prosecutors that could get Trump or someone really close to Trump then:

Why allow yourself to be put in prison?
Why spend all that money on a defense?
Why allow your name to be dragged through the mud for months on end?


Why not just give up the information right off the bat?

If Manafort had dirt on Trump that could get him impeached and/or landed in jail, he would be hailed as a hero. All would be forgiven.
The stories would be "people screw up our complicated tax laws all the time because they are so vague"
He would have a lifetime spot as an "analyst" on PMSNBC or CNN
Songs would be written about how he saved the Republic from the evil President Trump

How loyal can he be to Trump? He wasn't with the campaign that long. I don't know of any real long standing relationship between the two.

So the question remains. If Manafort had some dirt to dish, why hasn't he done it yet?

Does it make sense to you?
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Let me tell you what does not make sense to me, Don.

The fact that there are people still willing to support Donald Trump DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ME.

He is an insult to America...and to reason.

That is what does not make sense to me.

Anyway, perhaps Manafort does not have sufficient information to allow for a plea deal. That is one possibility...which I have already acknowledged.

Maybe he will spend the rest of his life in prison because he simply did not want to follow the laws of our nation.
 
archives said:
Mueller is not going to lose, at best, hung jury, meaning they do it all over again, but you are right, for eight months the right wing media has been bombarding Trump's line that Manafort had nothing to do with the campaign, but if he is somehow found not guilty, they will be shouting that it proves Trump is off the hook and it all is a witch hunt

Just shows they are reaching for straws
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Saved.
 
jimmymccready said:
Mueller is so far ahead of Trump and his base, that when he releases his report, the day before would be Trump and his base against Real America, the day after will be Trump and his base against Real America and the Real World.
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Saved. :lolup:Twit doesn't know Mueller is corrupt. :rofl2:
 
Jarod said:
Its interesting to me that ReTrumplicans dont think Manafort should be prosecuted for his crimes.
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SRAWMAN WARNING! Who is making that claim snowflake?

I am just curious that if the crimes took place in 2013 and 2014, and the FBI had interviewed him, why it took until a special prosecutor fishing expedition to get him indicted?

Any thoughts why Comrade?

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Jarod said:
So according to the Republicans and Fox News...

If Manafort wins the trial, it means the Mueller probe is a witch hunt and should end.

If Mueller wins the trial, it means nothing.
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no, listen nut-bag let me try to explain this in as simple a manner as I can manage

either way it's a witch hunt, where have you been?

And Manafort will go down for the tax evasion and fraud, and in a year or two trump will pardon him, please pay attention.

The troubling part of this is this is old J Edgar Hoover dealing with gangsters type tactics.
You bring in a low life, Gates, threaten him with jail so he flips, you move up to the next guy, Manafort threaten him with jail hoping he flips.

this has nothing to do with their crimes, tax evasion usually gets you a year or two, they want to put him in jail for the rest of his life for taxes, does that sound American you?
 
Getin the ring said:
no, listen nut-bag let me try to explain this in as simple a manner as I can manage

either way it's a witch hunt, where have you been?

And Manafort will go down for the tax evasion and fraud, and in a year or two trump will pardon him, please pay attention.

The troubling part of this is this is old J Edgar Hoover dealing with gangsters type tactics.
You bring in a low life, Gates, threaten him with jail so he flips, you move up to the next guy, Manafort threaten him with jail hoping he flips.

this has nothing to do with their crimes, tax evasion usually gets you a year or two, they want to put him in jail for the rest of his life for taxes, does that sound American you?
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WHy would Rump pardon Manafort in a couple of years? If he does, at least we will have gotten a couple of years of Manafort's life.
 
domer76 said:
Why don’t you take the time to look up his mandate?
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I am amused that you think you know what it means. His charge equates to a massive fishing expedition based on the false testimony of a corrupt bureaucrat named Comey. That is the ONLY way this can be interpreted. No crimes have been charged, no crimes are named and no matter how much you morons with TDS contort and spin, talking to Russians is not against the law.

Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice.
(b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confined by then-FBI Director James B. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:
(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and
(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).
(c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.
(d) Sections 600.4 through 600. l 0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/967231/download
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/appointment-special-counsel
 
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