MIT Professor Richard Lindzen on Climate Sensitivity

Holy shit, when discussing climate it is inevitable for some idiot to bang on about funding. There should be a law for it, like Godwin's Law and the Nazis. So here we have Gonad up for a right royal shellacking!! Funny how these people never consider funding from the likes of Greenpeace, the Sierra Club or from the Obama admin to be compromising.

Idiot.... when one's "funding" as you are attempting to describe Lindzen's PAYDAY as, comes from a multi-billion dollar a year, for-profit concern like the fossil fuel industry vs getting paid for speaking engagements or accepting donations from concerned citizens, it's pretty obvious to anyone who's been around long enough to have reached adulthood, what the true intentions are behind the suppliers of the money.

The oil industry is desperate to protect it's profits. Their motive is obviously self serving.

Not the same with colleges, universities and concerned groups or individuals possibly associated with charitable foundations, donating to further research.

If you pretend to not understand the difference, your credibility on anything else is zero.
 
Idiot.... when one's "funding" as you are attempting to describe Lindzen's PAYDAY as, comes from a multi-billion dollar a year, for-profit concern like the fossil fuel industry vs getting paid for speaking engagements or accepting donations from concerned citizens, it's pretty obvious to anyone who's been around long enough to have reached adulthood, what the true intentions are behind the suppliers of the money.

The oil industry is desperate to protect it's profits. Their motive is obviously self serving.

Not the same with colleges, universities and concerned groups or individuals possibly associated with charitable foundations, donating to further research.

If you pretend to not understand the difference, your credibility on anything else is zero.

Pretty obvious that you never read that extremely well written article from Prof. Judith Curry's blog. I think from now on that ought to be called Gonad's Law in honour of the cretin that invoked it here.
 
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Pretty obvious that you never read that extremely well written article from Prof. Judith Curry's blog. I think from now on that ought to be called Gonad's Law in honour of the cretin that invoked it here.

Yes I did read it.

The gist of it is summed up in one sentence: "The issue is this. The intense politicization of climate science makes bias more likely to be coming from political and ideological perspectives than from funding sources."

Her opinion, not fact.

As knowledgeable on climate issues as she may be, and BTW she is not one of your fellow deniers, her claim that politics and ideology trump big fat payoffs from mega corporate interests, is absurd on its face and hints that her insight into human nature might not match her understanding of academic knowledge.
 
Yes I did read it.

The gist of it is summed up in one sentence: "The issue is this. The intense politicization of climate science makes bias more likely to be coming from political and ideological perspectives than from funding sources."

Her opinion, not fact.

As knowledgeable on climate issues as she may be, and BTW she is not one of your fellow deniers, her claim that politics and ideology trump big fat payoffs from mega corporate interests, is absurd on its face and hints that her insight into human nature might not match her understanding of academic knowledge.

She is very much, by your definition anyway, a denier, to anyone else she is a sceptic which is the only right and proper position for any good scientist. In fact she left the Georgia Institute of Technology because of all the hounding by former colleagues and the media. Here is another article that should clarify her position. Richard Lindzen and Judith Curry are pretty much in lockstep over the science and only really disagree over details. One being the value of the Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity for CO2 (ECS), which she thinks is around 1.66C and Lindzen believes it to far nearer to 1.2C or below.



The real war on science


The Left has done far more than the Right to set back progress. – John Tierney

John Tierney has written a stunningly insightful piece in the City Journal Magazine: The Real War on Science. Read the whole thing. Here are some excerpts of particular relevance to climate science:

Conservatives just don’t have that much impact on science. I know that sounds strange to Democrats who decry Republican creationists and call themselves the “party of science.” But I’ve done my homework. I’ve read the Left’s indictments, including Chris Mooney’s bestseller, The Republican War on Science. I finished it with the same question about this war that I had at the outset: Where are the casualties?

Where are the scientists who lost their jobs or their funding? What vital research has been corrupted or suppressed? What scientific debate has been silenced? Yes, the book reveals that Republican creationists exist, but they don’t affect the biologists or anthropologists studying evolution. Yes, George W. Bush refused federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research, but that hardly put a stop to it (and not much changed after Barack Obama reversed the policy).

The danger from the Left does not arise from stupidity or dishonesty; those failings are bipartisan. Some surveys show that Republicans, particularly libertarians, are more scientifically literate than Democrats, but there’s plenty of ignorance all around. Both sides cherry-pick research and misrepresent evidence to support their agendas. Whoever’s in power, the White House plays politics in appointing advisory commissions and editing the executive summaries of their reports. Scientists of all ideologies exaggerate the importance of their own research and seek results that will bring them more attention and funding.

But two huge threats to science are peculiar to the Left—and they’re getting worse.
The first threat is confirmation bias, the well-documented tendency of people to seek out and accept information that confirms their beliefs and prejudices.

Scientists try to avoid confirmation bias by exposing their work to peer review by critics with different views, but it’s increasingly difficult for liberals to find such critics. Academics have traditionally leaned left politically, and many fields have essentially become monocultures, especially in the social sciences, where Democrats now outnumber Republicans by at least 8 to 1. The lopsided ratio has led to another well-documented phenomenon: people’s beliefs become more extreme when they’re surrounded by like-minded colleagues. They come to assume that their opinions are not only the norm but also the truth, . . creating what Jonathan Haidt calls a “tribal-moral community” with its own “sacred values” about what’s worth studying and what’s taboo.

Conservatives have been variously pathologized as unethical, antisocial, and irrational simply because they don’t share beliefs that seem self-evident to liberals.

The combination of all these pressures from the Left has repeatedly skewed science over the past half-century. And that brings us to the second great threat from the Left: its long tradition of mixing science and politics. To conservatives, the fundamental problem with the Left is what Friedrich Hayek called the fatal conceit: the delusion that experts are wise enough to redesign society. Conservatives distrust central planners, preferring to rely on traditional institutions that protect individuals’ “natural rights” against the power of the state. Leftists have much more confidence in experts and the state.

For his part, Holdren has served for the past eight years as the science advisor to President Obama, a position from which he laments that Americans don’t take his warnings on climate change seriously. He doesn’t seem to realize that public skepticism has a lot to do with the dismal track record of himself and his fellow environmentalists. There’s always an apocalypse requiring the expansion of state power.

President Obama promotes his green agenda by announcing that “the debate is settled,” and he denounces “climate deniers” by claiming that 97 percent of scientists believe that global warming is dangerous. His statements are false. While the greenhouse effect is undeniably real, and while most scientists agree that there has been a rise in global temperatures caused in some part by human emissions of carbon dioxide, no one knows how much more warming will occur this century or whether it will be dangerous.

The long-term risks are certainly worth studying, but no matter whose predictions you trust, climate science provides no justification for Obama’s green agenda—or anyone else’s agenda. Even if it were somehow proved that high-end estimates for future global warming are accurate, that wouldn’t imply that Greens have the right practical solution for reducing carbon emissions—or that we even need to reduce those emissions. Policies for dealing with global warming vary according to political beliefs, economic assumptions, social priorities, and moral principles. Would regulating carbon dioxide stifle economic growth and give too much power to the state? Is it moral to impose sacrifices on poor people to keep temperatures a little cooler for their descendants, who will presumably be many times richer? Are there more important problems to address first? These aren’t questions with scientifically correct answers.
Yet many climate researchers are passing off their political opinions as science, just as Obama does, and they’re even using that absurdly unscientific term “denier” as if they were priests guarding some eternal truth. Science advances by continually challenging and testing hypotheses, but the modern Left has become obsessed with silencing heretics. In a letter to Attorney General Loretta Lynch last year, 20 climate scientists urged her to use federal racketeering laws to prosecute corporations and think tanks that have “deceived the American people about the risks of climate change.” Similar assaults on free speech are endorsed in the Democratic Party’s 2016 platform, which calls for prosecution of companies that make “misleading” statements about “the scientific reality of climate change.”

The most vocal critics of climate dogma are a half-dozen think tanks that together spend less than $15 million annually on environmental issues. The half-dozen major green groups spend more than $500 million, and the federal government spends $10 billion on climate research and technology to reduce emissions. Add it up, and it’s clear that scientists face tremendous pressure to support the “consensus” on reducing carbon emissions, as Judith Curry, a climatologist at Georgia Tech, testified last year at a Senate hearing.

“This pressure comes not only from politicians but also from federal funding agencies, universities and professional societies, and scientists themselves who are green activists,” Curry said. “This advocacy extends to the professional societies that publish journals and organize conferences. Policy advocacy, combined with understating the uncertainties, risks destroying science’s reputation for honesty and objectivity—without which scientists become regarded as merely another lobbyist group.”

To preserve their integrity, scientists should avoid politics and embrace the skeptical rigor that their profession requires. They need to start welcoming conservatives and others who will spot their biases and violate their taboos. Making these changes won’t be easy, but the first step is simple: stop pretending that the threats to science are coming from the Right. Look in the other direction—or in the mirror.

https://judithcurry.com/2016/11/21/the-real-war-on-science/
 
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"that's how science works." HM #40
Please do not presume to instruct me, a scientist, on scientific method.
"you dislike being challenged" HM #40
Quite the contrary. I contributed multiple times to this and other topics IN HOPE of being challenged. It's OK HM. I suppose you at least tried.

You challenged* in this thread, I presented my perspective, and in short order you conceded my point.
"sea level rise is around 1.8mm per year or less than 6 inches by the year 2100." HM #37
That's not incidental to my participation. It's why I participate.

It may also be worth noting that Earth's climate has undergone substantial changes in its ~billion year history.
Proof that 3rd millennium climate change is substantially anthropogenic is scant.

What we do know is that we're adding Carbon to the atmosphere by the ton, and that while natural gas might seem a cleaner burning fuel than coal, fracking as currently practiced in the U.S. includes an enormous amount of spillage.
And that spillage of gas, dumping it into the atmosphere has environmental consequences.

It's a vast and complex eco-system.
But insulting science isn't going to diminish harm somehow.

* Not in the sense of being difficult, but merely in taking an alternate perspective.
 
Please do not presume to instruct me, a scientist, on scientific method.

Quite the contrary. I contributed multiple times to this and other topics IN HOPE of being challenged. It's OK HM. I suppose you at least tried.

You challenged* in this thread, I presented my perspective, and in short order you conceded my point.

That's not incidental to my participation. It's why I participate.

It may also be worth noting that Earth's climate has undergone substantial changes in its ~billion year history.
Proof that 3rd millennium climate change is substantially anthropogenic is scant.

What we do know is that we're adding Carbon to the atmosphere by the ton, and that while natural gas might seem a cleaner burning fuel than coal, fracking as currently practiced in the U.S. includes an enormous amount of spillage.
And that spillage of gas, dumping it into the atmosphere has environmental consequences.

It's a vast and complex eco-system.
But insulting science isn't going to diminish harm somehow.

* Not in the sense of being difficult, but merely in taking an alternate perspective.

IF you think that less than 6 inch rise in sea level in 80 years is a big deal then I am not sure what to say to you?
 
She is very much, by your definition anyway, a denier, to anyone else she is a sceptic which is the only right and proper position for any good scientist. In fact she left the Georgia Institute of Technology because of all the hounding by former colleagues and the media. Here is another article that should clarify her position. Richard Lindzen and Judith Curry are pretty much in lockstep over the science and only really disagree over details. One being the value of the Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity for CO2 (ECS), which she thinks is around 1.66C and Lindzen believes it to far nearer to 1.2C or below.

So IOW, she is just siding with Lindzen, because she is one of his fellow corporate paid whores and she's trying to provide cover for them.

Got it.

And BTW, it's spelled "skeptic" with a k, not "sceptic" with a c.

Mr. Advanced Degree.
 
It's spelt sceptic over here, ignorant Septic. She points exactly what you are doing here and the Left always does. Climate science has been hopelessly commandeered by left wing politicians and environmentalists who have little interest in the facts, only using confirmation bias and dodgy climate models for their own ends.
 
So IOW, she is just siding with Lindzen, because she is one of his fellow corporate paid whores and she's trying to provide cover for them.

Got it.

And BTW, it's spelled "skeptic" with a k, not "sceptic" with a c.

Mr. Advanced Degree.

Sorry you're just an idiot, I won't be responding to you anymore.
 
It is truly laughable how the Left always tries to muddy the waters by claiming that anybody they dislike is receiving fossil fuel funding when it's the Left who are the biggest culprits. Gonad is just the latest to resort to this incredibly lazy and duplicitous bullshit. Here is an extremely well written article that documents the real culprits. It describes just how incestuous the climate alarmists were back in the Obama days. Fortunately Trump has put paid to a lot of that.

It isn’t the fossil-fuel companies that are polluting climate science.

Citing documents uncovered by the radical environmental group Greenpeace, a group of media outlets — including the New York Times and the Boston Globe — have attacked global-warming skeptic Wei-Hock (Willie) Soon for allegedly hiding $1.2 million in contributions from “fossil fuel companies.” The articles were the latest in an ongoing campaign by greens and their media allies to discredit opponents of the warming agenda.

But in allying themselves closely with activist groups with which they share ideological goals, reporters have fundamentally misled readers on the facts of global-warming funding.

In truth, the overwhelming majority of climate-research funding comes from the federal government and left-wing foundations. And while the energy industry funds both sides of the climate debate, the government/foundation monies go only toward research that advances the warming regulatory agenda. With a clear public-policy outcome in mind, the government/foundation gravy train is a much greater threat to scientific integrity.

Officials with the Smithsonian Institution — which employs Dr. Soon — told the Times it appeared the scientist had violated disclosure standards, and they said they would look into the matter. Soon, a Malaysian immigrant, is a widely respected astrophysicist, and his allies came quickly to his defense.

“It is a despicable, reprehensible attack on a man of great personal integrity,” says Myron Ebell, the director of Global Warming and International Environmental Policy for the Competitive Enterprise Institute, who questioned why media organizations were singling out Soon over research funding.

Indeed, experts in the research community say that it is much more difficult for some of the top climate scientists — Soon, Roger Pielke Jr., the CATO Institute’s Patrick Michaels, MIT’s now-retired Richard Lindzen — to get funding for their work because they do not embrace the global-warming fearmongering favored by the government-funded climate establishment.

“Soon’s integrity in the scientific community shines out,” says Ebell. “He has foregone his own career advancement to advance scientific truth. If he had only mouthed establishment platitudes, he could’ve been named to head a big university [research center] like Michael Mann.”

Mann is the controversial director of Pennsylvania State’s Earth System Science Center. He was at the center of the 2009 Climategate scandal, in which e-mails were uncovered from climatologists discussing how to skew scientific evidence and blackball experts who don’t agree with them.

Mann is typical of pro-warming scientists who have taken millions from government agencies. The federal government — which will gain unprecedented regulatory power if climate legislation is passed — has funded scientific research to the tune of $32.5 billion since 1989, according the Science and Public Policy Institute. That is an amount that dwarfs research contributions from oil companies and utilities, which have historically funded both sides of the debate.

Mann, for example, has received some $6 million, mostly in government grants — according to a study by The American Spectator — including $500,000 in federal stimulus money while he was under investigation for his Climategate e-mails.

Despite claims that they are watchdogs of the establishment, media outlets such as the Times have ignored the government’s oversized role in directing research. And they have ignored millions in contributions from left-wing foundations — contributions that, like government grants, seek to tip the scales to one side of the debate.

Last summer, a minority staff report from the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works gave details on a “Billionaire’s Club” — a shadowy network of charitable foundations that distribute billions to advance climate alarmism. Shadowy nonprofits such as the Energy Foundation and Tides Foundation distributed billions to far-left green groups such as the Natural Resources Defense Council, which in turn send staff to the EPA who then direct federal grants back to the same green groups. It is incestuous. It is opaque. Major media ignored the report.

Media outlets have also discriminated in their reporting on Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. The Times trumpeted Greenpeace FOIA requests revealing Soon’s benefactors, yet it has ignored the government’s refusal of FOIA filings requesting transparency in pro-warming scientists’ funding.

The Competitive Enterprise Institute, for example, has submitted FOIA requests asking for the sources of outside income of NASA scientist James Hansen (a key ally of Al Gore). The government has stonewalled, according to Ebell.

Media reporting further misleads readers in suggesting that “fossil fuel” utilities such as the Southern Company (a $409,000 contributor to Soon’s research, according to the Times) seek only to undermine climate science. In truth, energy companies today invest in solar, biomass, and landfill facilities in addition to carbon fuels. Companies such as Duke Energy, Exelon Corporation, NRG Energy, and Shell have even gone so far as to join with green groups in forming the U.S. Climate Action Partnership — an industry/green coalition that wants to “enact strong national legislation to require significant reductions of greenhouse gas emissions.”

This alliance worries a scientific community that is hardly unanimous that warming is a threat. Continued funding of contrarians such as Soon and Lindzen is essential to getting the best scientific research at a time when the EPA wants to shut down America’s most affordable power source, coal — at enormous cost to consumers.

The lack of warming for over a decade (witness this winter’s dangerous, record-breaking low temperatures) and Climategate are proof that the establishment has oversold a warming crisis. Attempts by the media to shut up their critics ignore the real threat to science.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/02/global-warming-follow-money-henry-payne/
 
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I am impressed with your mastery of Google!

Nah, there are so many sources debunking your supposed expert that anyone can reproduce dozens, two minute task, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it probably is a ...................

Admit it, you are going stick with the quack regardless because he tells you what you want to hear, you are not the first lemming to get played by a demagogue
 
You deduce wrong, I have an honours degree in chemistry.

I also understand the Arrhenius equation for CO2 climate forcing as well, namely ΔF[SUB]CO2[/SUB] = (5.35 W·m[SUP]–2[/SUP]) ln C/C0.

I spelt your ID as Seer in an ironic twist, sorry if you didn't get it!

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...-Sea-Ice-The-Real-Story&p=2528538#post2528538

That's the topper, "I have honor degrees in chemistry," too funny, like everyone is suppose to stop now because "moonie" tells us he has "honor degrees in chemistry," beautiful

You are a Kool aid drinker, easy prey for demogogues.
 
Nah, there are so many sources debunking your supposed expert that anyone can reproduce dozens, two minute task, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it probably is a ...................

Admit it, you are going stick with the quack regardless because he tells you what you want to hear, you are not the first lemming to get played by a demagogue

You're a fool, and sadly the worst kind, that think they are otherwise. Never once in any of your 'contributions' have you ever discussed the science because you can't, it's as simple as that. Will you be invoking Gonad's Law as well?
 
That's the topper, "I have honor degrees in chemistry," too funny, like everyone is suppose to stop now because "moonie" tells us he has "honor degrees in chemistry," beautiful

You are a Kool aid drinker, easy prey for demogogues.

I have asked you before about your scientific qualifications and only been met with silence, I can only surmise that you have none and think a BA in gender studies is all you need.
 
I have asked you before about your scientific qualifications and only been met with silence, I can only surmise that you have none and think a BA in gender studies is all you need.

Well my "studies" taught me enough to recognize a quack, and, when to side with those whose professions rely upon understanding climate.

http://www.opr.ca.gov/facts/list-of-scientific-organizations.html

https://www.c2es.org/site/assets/up...daptation-what-federal-agencies-are-doing.pdf

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
 
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