You can run, but you can't hide Nazi

S

Seahawk

12
Reinhold Hanning, a former Nazi guard, was sentenced to five years in jail for his involvement in 170,000 deaths at Auschwitz, BBC reports.

Hanning was an SS guard at Auschwitz from 1942 to 1944. TIME’s Eliza Gray wrote a recent feature story on Hanning’s trial. “These new trials are considered symbolically important, a way to show that a German legal system that struggled for decades to hold ex-Nazis accountable can finally bring them to justice,” Gray wrote of the push to prosecute elderly former Nazis (Hanning is 94.)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-nazi-guard-sentenced-five-123852026.html?nhp=1

If he dies in prison, I won't shed a tear.
 
I frankly cannot see the point of jailing a petty functionary, especially somebody aged 95 years. Can I ask you a question, if you were in Germany in those days, would you have spoken up knowing that you might end up in a concentration camp?
 
Milagro said:
I frankly cannot see the point of jailing a petty functionary, especially somebody aged 95 years. Can I ask you a question, if you were in Germany in those days, would you have spoken up knowing that you might end up in a concentration camp?
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No way I would have gone along w/ what happened at Auschwicz.

People are either principled, or they're not. If you're willing to help get 170,000 people killed because you're scared for your own life, you're as bad as Hitler.
 
Milagro said:
I frankly cannot see the point of jailing a petty functionary, especially somebody aged 95 years. Can I ask you a question, if you were in Germany in those days, would you have spoken up knowing that you might end up in a concentration camp?
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Regardless, he committed the crimes and all generations from now must know that know matter how old or how small your role was, you will be prosecuted. And if you read the article, he didn't seem like it was a burden on him, in fact, it almost seemed a relief.

Or we could be Nazi's and just kill everyone.
 
Thing1 said:
No way I would have gone along w/ what happened at Auschwicz.

People are either principled, or they're not. If you're willing to help get 170,000 people killed because you're scared for your own life, you're as bad as Hitler.
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Easy thing to say from your armchair computer warrior.

I respect you, but to say for sure that "no way" would you have gone alone is really naive. You weren't alive then. There was no mass media, there was the peer pressure in front of you everyday, real people, not talking heads.

Out of respect for you, I will presume you meant only that your morals now, would not allow you go along with it.
 
Seahawk said:
Easy thing to say from your armchair computer warrior.

I respect you, but to say for sure that "no way" would you have gone alone is really naive. You weren't alive then. There was no mass media, there was the peer pressure in front of you everyday, real people, not talking heads.

Out of respect for you, I will presume you meant only that your morals now, would not allow you go along with it.
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I don't believe that he would have, simply because he was against the Iraq War when it was not a popular position, either and was called names and ridiculed for it. Fortunately, it did not go so far as to round us all up and execute us.
 
Milagro said:
I frankly cannot see the point of jailing a petty functionary, especially somebody aged 95 years. Can I ask you a question, if you were in Germany in those days, would you have spoken up knowing that you might end up in a concentration camp?
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Are you suggesting that people should just "go along" with such behavior; because this is exactly the kind of fear that gangs want to instill in their "hoods" and victims - speak up and become a victim yourself or keep quit.
 
Seahawk said:
Easy thing to say from your armchair computer warrior.

I respect you, but to say for sure that "no way" would you have gone alone is really naive. You weren't alive then. There was no mass media, there was the peer pressure in front of you everyday, real people, not talking heads.

Out of respect for you, I will presume you meant only that your morals now, would not allow you go along with it.
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I don't discount your response, but this is something I have considered for a long time. I'm a bit obsessed w/ Nazi Germany, and how people could have done the things they did, all in the name of "following orders."

There isn't a way I could know that I'd follow through w/ what I say I'd have done. But if I went along w/ what they did, I'm nowhere near the kind of person who I think I am. You have to be extraordinarily subservient to watch what happened at Aushwicz & not only avoid doing something, but to actively partake in it. I won't excuse what they did with a casual, well, maybe I would have done the same thing w/ peer pressure.
 
I agree with Milagro. If he committed war crimes, it doesn't matter that he was following orders. But, witnesses only claimed that he was a guard there. And he apologized for seeing injustice and not acting against it. Without any evidence that he himself committed crimes, the presumption should fall in favor of the defendant.

Look at this way, if someone was a member of the Nazi party, and worked as an accountant for the Bayer Corporation (which supplied the chemicals for the gas chambers), is he a criminal? Does it matter that he didn't know anything about the gas chambers? Does it matter, even if he did? I mean, who would defy the entire command structure of the German military in those days to stand up for their personal integrity? There was no quarter in those days for anyone who trifled with the Gestapo, the SS, or even plain old Nazis who were ranked above you.

And today, would you seriously oppose Homeland Security, NSA, CIA, or the FBI if they told you that a heinous act is justified for the sake of our country? I have read studies where college volunteers were put in a prisoner/guard situation, and guess what? Almost to a person, those that randomly became guards acted sadistically, and those that randomly were selected to be prisoners acted compliantly. And that was only a college psych experiment. Imagine the pressure that German soldiers were under in 1939.

No, I don't condone the murder of millions of Jews, dissidents, gypsies, homosexuals, communists, and the infirm, but I blame the active proponents of that carnage, not the enlisted or conscripted bystanders. Prove that he was a proponent, and I will condemn him mercilessly.
 
Thing1 said:
No way I would have gone along w/ what happened at Auschwicz.

People are either principled, or they're not. If you're willing to help get 170,000 people killed because you're scared for your own life, you're as bad as Hitler.
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Then I assume your offspring wouldn't care that you were one of the first people to be killed, and that they now wouldn't even exist. But, kudos to your bravery, if every German in those days had your courage and principles, then Hitler would have had no power. But, you would still be dead. And less principled Germans would still have fought on.
 
mogur said:
I agree with Milagro. If he committed war crimes, it doesn't matter that he was following orders. But, witnesses only claimed that he was a guard there. And he apologized for seeing injustice and not acting against it. Without any evidence that he himself committed crimes, the presumption should fall in favor of the defendant.

Look at this way, if someone was a member of the Nazi party, and worked as an accountant for the Bayer Corporation (which supplied the chemicals for the gas chambers), is he a criminal? Does it matter that he didn't know anything about the gas chambers? Does it matter, even if he did? I mean, who would defy the entire command structure of the German military in those days to stand up for their personal integrity? There was no quarter in those days for anyone who trifled with the Gestapo, the SS, or even plain old Nazis who were ranked above you.

And today, would you seriously oppose Homeland Security, NSA, CIA, or the FBI if they told you that a heinous act is justified for the sake of our country? I have read studies where college volunteers were put in a prisoner/guard situation, and guess what? Almost to a person, those that randomly became guards acted sadistically, and those that randomly were selected to be prisoners acted compliantly. And that was only a college psych experiment. Imagine the pressure that German soldiers were under in 1939.

No, I don't condone the murder of millions of Jews, dissidents, gypsies, homosexuals, communists, and the infirm, but I blame the active proponents of that carnage, not the enlisted or conscripted bystanders. Prove that he was a proponent, and I will condemn him mercilessly.
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You bring excellent points. I would say though, an accountant is very different than a security guard. The argument could be made the security didn't know anything, but I suspect he knew more than an account for a drug company.

As I said, his statement seemed to be a guilty plea and an acceptance.

Easy for me to say, I wasn't there and I can pronounce judgment from a keyboard.
 
Milagro said:
I frankly cannot see the point of jailing a petty functionary, especially somebody aged 95 years. Can I ask you a question, if you were in Germany in those days, would you have spoken up knowing that you might end up in a concentration camp?
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Maybe if we'd shoot more people like him more people in the future would be scared of repeating his cowardice?
 
Seahawk said:
Reinhold Hanning, a former Nazi guard, was sentenced to five years in jail for his involvement in 170,000 deaths at Auschwitz, BBC reports.

Hanning was an SS guard at Auschwitz from 1942 to 1944. TIME’s Eliza Gray wrote a recent feature story on Hanning’s trial. “These new trials are considered symbolically important, a way to show that a German legal system that struggled for decades to hold ex-Nazis accountable can finally bring them to justice,” Gray wrote of the push to prosecute elderly former Nazis (Hanning is 94.)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-nazi-guard-sentenced-five-123852026.html?nhp=1

If he dies in prison, I won't shed a tear.
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Would you shed a tear for any other non-friend or family member?
 
Thing1 said:
No way I would have gone along w/ what happened at Auschwicz.

People are either principled, or they're not. If you're willing to help get 170,000 people killed because you're scared for your own life, you're as bad as Hitler.
Click to expand...

Very easy to say when you never been put in that position or ever likely to be.
 
mogur said:
No, I don't condone the murder of millions of Jews, dissidents, gypsies, homosexuals, communists, and the infirm, but I blame the active proponents of that carnage, not the enlisted or conscripted bystanders. Prove that he was a proponent, and I will condemn him mercilessly.
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I'd say that being a ' guard ' is playing an active part. I'm sure that the Nuremburg judges agreed.

Kudos to you for mentioning the millions of dissidents, gypsies, communists, homosexuals, the infirm etc. who were murdered by the fascist Nazis. They killed around eighteen million in total, one-third of whom were Jewish.


This particular judgment again brings the topic of war crimes into the spotlight. Why is it that accusations of today's war crimes fall on deaf ears ? Must there be 18 million more victims before we get up off our asses and act like we've learned something about ourselves ?
 
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moon2012 said:
I'd say that being a ' guard ' is playing an active part. I'm sure that the Nuremburg judges agreed.

You deserve praise for mentioning the millions of dissidents, gypsies, communists, homosexuals, the infirm etc. who were murdered by the fascist Nazis. They killed around eighteen million in total, one-third of whom were Jewish.
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You are just making up shit as per usual, the actual number is around 11 million.
 
Milagro said:
You are just making up shit as per usual, the actual number is around 11 million.
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You're proven wrong- again- and your apology for your error is rejected. The calculated figure is currently between 15 and 20 millions and 18 millions seems a fair estimate accordingly.

Now fuck off, you racist midget.

The research covered some 42,400 camps and ghettos across Europe, and also included forced-labour camps and Nazi "care" centres where pregnant women were forced to have an abortion or had their child killed right after giving birth. It also drew in camps, prisons and killing grounds used by Nazi puppet regimes in countries such as France and Romania.

The number of locations is almost double previous estimates made by the same institution and, all told, they may have imprisoned and killed between 15 to 20 million people.

"The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought," Hartmut Berghoff, director of the German Historical Institute in America, said in an interview after learning of the new data. "We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was but the numbers are unbelievable.

http://www.businessinsider.com/shoc...is-killed-up-to-20-million-people-2013-3?IR=T
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