Why this will backfire on Israel

evince said:
NO Yurt the First missle fired after the cease fire was agreed upon was fired form the Isreali side.

THIS IS A FACT!


That one and the ohters were fired by Fracture groups and NOT eithersides government.


The First one to Breach the rules of the Cease Fire was the Current government of Israel. IT was on November 4th 2008 ( gee I wonder why they picked that date) in which they went into Palestinian territory to kill people.

It was the Current government of Israel who broke the cease fire no matter what the propaganda is telling you.
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care to provide a link? if it is such a fact, then surely you can provide a link.

funny how you say that months later though...after numerous hamas' rocket that the cease fire was actually broken...when in reality hamas continual firing of rockets was a breach of the cease fire :pke:
 
Yurt said:
did they or did they not stop firing rockets? was this or was it not a condition of israel opening up the borders?
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I'm sorry but this is like arguing with a two year old.

The terms of the ceasefire were to cease all military action on both sides and within a 72 hour period for Israel to ease restrictions on the border.

Do i have to explain to you that if one missile fell in a calendar month (something Israel would no doubt accept as beyond the control of Hamas) there would appear to be a lack of implementation there on the part of the Israelis?

I had more patience yesterday. Today, less so.
 
charver said:
I'm sorry but this is like arguing with a two year old.

The terms of the ceasefire were to cease all military action on both sides and within a 72 hour period for Israel to ease restrictions on the border.

Do i have to explain to you that if one missile fell in a calendar month (something Israel would no doubt accept as beyond the control of Hamas) there would appear to be a lack of implementation there on the part of the Israelis?

I had more patience yesterday. Today, less so.
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so the rocket fell after the 72 hour period? it is not my fault your patience is thin today. we are talking terms and conditions here, if it is too much, you can always come back when you cooled off. :)

the way i see (based on what you have presented me so far and from what i have read) is that israel did not lift everything immediately due to security concerns which actually proved true, in that, rockets were continually fired into israel. i guess israel should have just lifted the blockade as the rockets continued...

my reading of the events, from both viewpoints, indicates that neither side was perfect in the ceasefire...as such the ceasefire was never perfect. perhaps this is really about both sides failing to keep the ceasefire...not really a shocker given the two sides history of conflict. i recently read that israel said it is nearly finished, about time. as i wrote earlier, enough is enough, they made their point.

let's hope this time that the ceasefire is kept by BOTH sides. assuming one can be reached.
 
You are wrong YURT,

The rockets fired were NOT fired by Hamas.

They were fired by fraction groups which Hamas did not control.

Israel could not control the first one shot from their side either.

If you can forgive Israel for that first rocket why then do you blame Hamas for the ones they cant control?

The Current government of Israel did have control over the actions it took on Nov 4th 2008. They went into Palestinian territory and killed people. THAT is why you then see the rocket fire return to previous levels.

During all those months that both sides did stop agression the Current Government of Israel did trap the people of Palestine in and allowed no supplies in. Women and children died trying to beg to be allowed into Israel to get medical treatment. THEY DIED sitting at a fence begging to be allowed to have medical care.
The current Government of Israel is guilty. The people who have brains and enough morals to see the truth all know this. Then there are the people like you who are buyng the propaganda.
 
When it goes from 125 missiles a month (4 a day on average) down to 1 per month, clearly Hamas made a huge effort to end them.
 
Yurt said:
so the rocket fell after the 72 hour period? it is not my fault your patience is thin today. we are talking terms and conditions here, if it is too much, you can always come back when you cooled off. :)

the way i see (based on what you have presented me so far and from what i have read) is that israel did not lift everything immediately due to security concerns which actually proved true, in that, rockets were continually fired into israel. i guess israel should have just lifted the blockade as the rockets continued...

my reading of the events, from both viewpoints, indicates that neither side was perfect in the ceasefire...as such the ceasefire was never perfect. perhaps this is really about both sides failing to keep the ceasefire...not really a shocker given the two sides history of conflict. i recently read that israel said it is nearly finished, about time. as i wrote earlier, enough is enough, they made their point.

let's hope this time that the ceasefire is kept by BOTH sides. assuming one can be reached.
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It isn't so much anger as the realisation of inevitable futility.

People never change each other's minds here, which is why my ventures into seriousness are often short lived.

However, i'll agree with you in the expressions of hope for a swift and lasting ceasefire.
 
evince said:
You are wrong YURT,

The rockets fired were NOT fired by Hamas.

They were fired by fraction groups which Hamas did not control.

Israel could not control the first one shot from their side either.

If you can forgive Israel for that first rocket why then do you blame Hamas for the ones they cant control?

The Current government of Israel did have control over the actions it took on Nov 4th 2008. They went into Palestinian territory and killed people. THAT is why you then see the rocket fire return to previous levels.

During all those months that both sides did stop agression the Current Government of Israel did trap the people of Palestine in and allowed no supplies in. Women and children died trying to beg to be allowed into Israel to get medical treatment. THEY DIED sitting at a fence begging to be allowed to have medical care.
The current Government of Israel is guilty. The people who have brains and enough morals to see the truth all know this. Then there are the people like you who are buyng the propaganda.
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you silly bird, i ASKED you for a link to back up your assertion that israel fired teh first shot....calm down, count to 10 and give me the link

i am burying nothing silly bird, what do you think i am doing here debating this stuff with people...i have denied nothing and when provided with evidence admit the evidence and willingly change my viewpoint. when presented with solid evidence i have -- everytime -- either admitted i was wrong when i held a counter belief or agreed with the evidence presented.

you have not presented any evidence taht israel fired first, only your opinion and then you crazily say i am wrong about hamas....when all i did was ask you to provide the proof of your FACT.
 
Damocles said:
When it goes from 125 missiles a month (4 a day on average) down to 1 per month, clearly Hamas made a huge effort to end them.
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i agree with that. just being nitpicky :). sticking to the minutia in order to foster interesting discussions, afterall, while it is an effort, the sticky fact remains that the rockets never ceased and israel never lifted the blockade. after my discussions with charver on this, it is clear to me that both sides have fault issues regarding the cease fire.
 
Yurt said:
i agree with that. just being nitpicky :). sticking to the minutia in order to foster interesting discussions, afterall, while it is an effort, the sticky fact remains that the rockets never ceased and israel never lifted the blockade. after my discussions with charver on this, it is clear to me that both sides have fault issues regarding the cease fire.
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True. There really is not a moral high ground for either side to claim.
 
Damocles said:
True. There really is not a moral high ground for either side to claim.
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with regards to this ceasefire, it does appear so. i would not go so far as to say no side has the moral high ground in the overall conflict.

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