What if the Keystone Pipeline isn't built?

cawacko

Well-known member
Think it will be approved?



What Happens if the Keystone XL Pipeline Isn't Built?


Ater five years, it appears the Obama administration will soon issue a decision on whether to build the long-delayed and controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline, which would cross an environmentally sensitive area of the Great Plains and move nearly a million barrels of oil a day to Gulf Coast refineries.

Backers of the project say it would stimulate the U.S. economy and enhance energy security, stressing that a new pipeline is the cheapest, safest way to transport dirty tar-sands crude from Canada's booming oil fields to U.S. refineries

Environmentalists, who earlier this month chained themselves to the White House fence in protest, counter that it would endanger the water supply in several states and exacerbate climate change. They want to stop or slow the exploitation of an energy source the Sierra Club calls "the most toxic fossil fuel on the planet."

But what happens if, after all the shouting, the pipeline isn't built? NBC News consulted with experts on both sides of the debate to provide some possible answers about the impact on the environment, the economy and the global oil supply.

"We don't think there's any way that the oil will stay in the ground," said Matt Letourneau, a spokesperson for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Institute for 21st Century Energy. "Certainly the market will find a way."

More oil moves by rail. Will more spill?

As oil production has surged in North Dakota's Bakken region and Alberta's oil patch, the volume of oil moved by rail has increased exponentially. With the rapid growth of "crude by rail" has come a series of derailments, some involving explosions and one, in Lac Megantic, Quebec, resulting in nearly 50 fatalities.

The crude from Canada, far less flammable than that from the Bakken, is unlikely to explode. But the tar-like oil does present major cleanup problems if it spills, particularly in water.

Without Keystone XL, more crude will likely move by rail both to Canada's Atlantic and Pacific coasts and down into the U.S.

Last month the State Department released an environmental impact statement predicting three possible scenarios if the president decides to block the pipeline. All three point to more crude by rail. The oil would either 1) move to Oklahoma by train before being shipped by existing pipelines, 2) ship by rail to British Columbia before being loaded on tankers, or 3) travel directly by rail from Alberta to the Gulf.

In addition to the potential for derailments, shipping oil by rail is more expensive than moving it via pipeline, which could add to the end cost for consumers. Regardless, some companies are already moving forward with rail transport expansion, independent of Keystone's fate. About 16 different rail terminal projects have been announced in Canada and the U.S., with the potential to move about 1.5 times as much oil as the projected volume for Keystone XL.


So far, rail shipment of Canadian crude isn't expanding as quickly as expected. A recent analysis by Reuters found rail shipments of Canadian crude in 2013 were 40,000 barrels per day. But statistics released earlier this month week indicated numbers are now up to about 57,000 barrels per day.

New Pipelines – But Not in the U.S.

As the Keystone XL project has languished, pipeline companies have proposed a number of other projects to move oil out of Alberta, most of them entirely on Canadian soil.

TransCanada, the company that wants to build Keystone XL, recently took the first step in the approval process for a different pipeline, a massive project that would snake nearly 2,800 miles from Alberta to Eastern Canada. "Energy East" would transport a whopping 1.1 million barrels of crude a day to refineries in Quebec and terminals on the Atlantic coast.

The next largest project, Kinder Morgan's proposed TransMountain pipeline, would carry about 890,000 barrels a day in the other direction to the coast of British Columbia.

Enbridge, another major Canadian pipeline company, has two projects in the works -- the Northern Gateway, which would send 520,000 barrels a day to the coast of British Columbia, and its Line 3 replacement, which could move 760,000 barrels a day from Canada into Wisconsin. Because Line 3 would replace an existing cross-border pipeline, the company argues it would not need the presidential permit that has held up Keystone XL.

If all the projects are approved, more than 4.1 million barrels of oil could flow through Canada by 2018. But the projects could be delayed by opposition from some of Canada's aboriginal "First Nation" communities. Several proposed routes would cross aboriginal land. Canadian law gives them the leverage to block or redirect the projects, and some groups have already said they intend to fight.

Oil Goes to China

If approved, the alternative pipelines could provide slower, more circuitous routes to America's Gulf Coast refineries. They could also provide more direct routes to other markets, like those burgeoning in China and India.

Much of the crude that would have been refined in Gulf Coast refineries would have then been shipped to end users in Asia. But cutting out the U.S. middleman could mean more crude going straight to Asia – and new refineries in Asian countries to process it.

The threat of cheap crude slipping through America's fingers to China has become a key talking point for pipeline advocates. Bill Day, a spokesman for the oil company Valero, which operates a Port Arthur, Texas, refinery that would receive oil via Keystone XL said that this could mean costs to the environment as well as the American economy.

"It's going to come out of the ground, it's going to get processed," said Day. "We think it would probably be better to be processed here under our environmental rules rather than China."


China's state-owned companies have already invested heavily in Alberta's oil sands. In 2012, Asian firms sunk nearly $30 billion in the area. Investments slowed last year after Canada changed some rules governing foreign investment, and after the Chinese companies already on the ground encountered roadblocks building pipelines. But investments are expect to climb again this year.


The Environmentalists Get What They Want – Sort of

Environmentalists want to delay or prevent the pipeline because doing so, they believe, will delay or prevent the extraction of Canadian tar-sands oil, estimated to be the world's third-largest oil reserve. They'd prefer that the U.S. focus on alternative energies instead of searching for new sources of fossil fuel.

They also have a particular dislike for tar-sands oil, which is dirtier and heavier than other crude. When it spills it sinks in water and is hard to clean up. The Keystone XL pipeline would ship this dirty, heavy oil over one of the largest supplies of underground fresh water in America, Nebraska's Ogallala Aquifer.

Opponents of Keystone are right, in part, to think that blocking it will slow down production. Without the pipeline, the supply of oil has so far exceeded the oil companies' capacity to ship it out of land-locked Alberta to its largest market -- the U.S.


The glut has driven down prices, making development in the region less attractive. A pipeline would not only make shipping faster and easier, it would lower the cost of transport, making the product still more attractive to customers.


"Industry plans to triple tar sands production over the next 20 years, and they simply will not be able to do it without pipeline capacity," said Anthony Swift, an attorney with the National Resources Defense Council, a vocal opponent of the project. "We're seeing projects begin to get canceled as it becomes apparent that pipelines aren't coming in as quickly as industry expected."


But even without the pipeline, and with the canceled projects, production is rising. A market assessment by Canada's National Energy Board released in November estimated that Canadian crude production is on track to soar to nearly 6 million barrels per day -- thanks in large part to oil coming from the sticky sands that have become the symbol of the debate over the energy future of North America.


CORRECTION: This version corrected the amount of oil that would be transported to nearly 1 million barrels a day.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101518572
 
Yes... it will eventually get built. The environmentalists are morons. The oil is coming out one way or another. If they ship it via rail or truck, the odds of spills increases (not to mention the fuel being used to transport adds to pollution of environment). If they get their way and Keystone doesn't go through, then the only other alternative is to build pipelines that are longer, which again adds to the potential for problems.
 
Think it will be approved?



What Happens if the Keystone XL Pipeline Isn't Built?


Ater five years, it appears the Obama administration will soon issue a decision on whether to build the long-delayed and controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline, which would cross an environmentally sensitive area of the Great Plains and move nearly a million barrels of oil a day to Gulf Coast refineries.

Backers of the project say it would stimulate the U.S. economy and enhance energy security, stressing that a new pipeline is the cheapest, safest way to transport dirty tar-sands crude from Canada's booming oil fields to U.S. refineries

Environmentalists, who earlier this month chained themselves to the White House fence in protest, counter that it would endanger the water supply in several states and exacerbate climate change. They want to stop or slow the exploitation of an energy source the Sierra Club calls "the most toxic fossil fuel on the planet."

But what happens if, after all the shouting, the pipeline isn't built? NBC News consulted with experts on both sides of the debate to provide some possible answers about the impact on the environment, the economy and the global oil supply.

"We don't think there's any way that the oil will stay in the ground," said Matt Letourneau, a spokesperson for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Institute for 21st Century Energy. "Certainly the market will find a way."

More oil moves by rail. Will more spill?

As oil production has surged in North Dakota's Bakken region and Alberta's oil patch, the volume of oil moved by rail has increased exponentially. With the rapid growth of "crude by rail" has come a series of derailments, some involving explosions and one, in Lac Megantic, Quebec, resulting in nearly 50 fatalities.

The crude from Canada, far less flammable than that from the Bakken, is unlikely to explode. But the tar-like oil does present major cleanup problems if it spills, particularly in water.

Without Keystone XL, more crude will likely move by rail both to Canada's Atlantic and Pacific coasts and down into the U.S.

Last month the State Department released an environmental impact statement predicting three possible scenarios if the president decides to block the pipeline. All three point to more crude by rail. The oil would either 1) move to Oklahoma by train before being shipped by existing pipelines, 2) ship by rail to British Columbia before being loaded on tankers, or 3) travel directly by rail from Alberta to the Gulf.

In addition to the potential for derailments, shipping oil by rail is more expensive than moving it via pipeline, which could add to the end cost for consumers. Regardless, some companies are already moving forward with rail transport expansion, independent of Keystone's fate. About 16 different rail terminal projects have been announced in Canada and the U.S., with the potential to move about 1.5 times as much oil as the projected volume for Keystone XL.


So far, rail shipment of Canadian crude isn't expanding as quickly as expected. A recent analysis by Reuters found rail shipments of Canadian crude in 2013 were 40,000 barrels per day. But statistics released earlier this month week indicated numbers are now up to about 57,000 barrels per day.

New Pipelines – But Not in the U.S.

As the Keystone XL project has languished, pipeline companies have proposed a number of other projects to move oil out of Alberta, most of them entirely on Canadian soil.

TransCanada, the company that wants to build Keystone XL, recently took the first step in the approval process for a different pipeline, a massive project that would snake nearly 2,800 miles from Alberta to Eastern Canada. "Energy East" would transport a whopping 1.1 million barrels of crude a day to refineries in Quebec and terminals on the Atlantic coast.

The next largest project, Kinder Morgan's proposed TransMountain pipeline, would carry about 890,000 barrels a day in the other direction to the coast of British Columbia.

Enbridge, another major Canadian pipeline company, has two projects in the works -- the Northern Gateway, which would send 520,000 barrels a day to the coast of British Columbia, and its Line 3 replacement, which could move 760,000 barrels a day from Canada into Wisconsin. Because Line 3 would replace an existing cross-border pipeline, the company argues it would not need the presidential permit that has held up Keystone XL.

If all the projects are approved, more than 4.1 million barrels of oil could flow through Canada by 2018. But the projects could be delayed by opposition from some of Canada's aboriginal "First Nation" communities. Several proposed routes would cross aboriginal land. Canadian law gives them the leverage to block or redirect the projects, and some groups have already said they intend to fight.

Oil Goes to China

If approved, the alternative pipelines could provide slower, more circuitous routes to America's Gulf Coast refineries. They could also provide more direct routes to other markets, like those burgeoning in China and India.

Much of the crude that would have been refined in Gulf Coast refineries would have then been shipped to end users in Asia. But cutting out the U.S. middleman could mean more crude going straight to Asia – and new refineries in Asian countries to process it.

The threat of cheap crude slipping through America's fingers to China has become a key talking point for pipeline advocates. Bill Day, a spokesman for the oil company Valero, which operates a Port Arthur, Texas, refinery that would receive oil via Keystone XL said that this could mean costs to the environment as well as the American economy.

"It's going to come out of the ground, it's going to get processed," said Day. "We think it would probably be better to be processed here under our environmental rules rather than China."


China's state-owned companies have already invested heavily in Alberta's oil sands. In 2012, Asian firms sunk nearly $30 billion in the area. Investments slowed last year after Canada changed some rules governing foreign investment, and after the Chinese companies already on the ground encountered roadblocks building pipelines. But investments are expect to climb again this year.


The Environmentalists Get What They Want – Sort of

Environmentalists want to delay or prevent the pipeline because doing so, they believe, will delay or prevent the extraction of Canadian tar-sands oil, estimated to be the world's third-largest oil reserve. They'd prefer that the U.S. focus on alternative energies instead of searching for new sources of fossil fuel.

They also have a particular dislike for tar-sands oil, which is dirtier and heavier than other crude. When it spills it sinks in water and is hard to clean up. The Keystone XL pipeline would ship this dirty, heavy oil over one of the largest supplies of underground fresh water in America, Nebraska's Ogallala Aquifer.

Opponents of Keystone are right, in part, to think that blocking it will slow down production. Without the pipeline, the supply of oil has so far exceeded the oil companies' capacity to ship it out of land-locked Alberta to its largest market -- the U.S.


The glut has driven down prices, making development in the region less attractive. A pipeline would not only make shipping faster and easier, it would lower the cost of transport, making the product still more attractive to customers.


"Industry plans to triple tar sands production over the next 20 years, and they simply will not be able to do it without pipeline capacity," said Anthony Swift, an attorney with the National Resources Defense Council, a vocal opponent of the project. "We're seeing projects begin to get canceled as it becomes apparent that pipelines aren't coming in as quickly as industry expected."


But even without the pipeline, and with the canceled projects, production is rising. A market assessment by Canada's National Energy Board released in November estimated that Canadian crude production is on track to soar to nearly 6 million barrels per day -- thanks in large part to oil coming from the sticky sands that have become the symbol of the debate over the energy future of North America.


CORRECTION: This version corrected the amount of oil that would be transported to nearly 1 million barrels a day.


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101518572
I don't think so. The profits from dilbit oil are marginal and if price of crude drops significantly under $100 it's of very questionable economic viability.

Then consider the risk involved if there's a major dilbit oil spill into a major navigable waterway or an aquifer and, as what happened in the Kalamazoo river spill, you'd have a serious and expensive problem on your hands.

I just don't think that long term Keystone passes the cost benefit analysis.
 
Yes... it will eventually get built. The environmentalists are morons. The oil is coming out one way or another. If they ship it via rail or truck, the odds of spills increases (not to mention the fuel being used to transport adds to pollution of environment). If they get their way and Keystone doesn't go through, then the only other alternative is to build pipelines that are longer, which again adds to the potential for problems.
Yes....the odds of a spill do increase in shipment by rail....only problem is that their being shipped by rail in Canada so that risk is theirs...not ours.

You also might want to actually know what your talking about on the environmental and economic side and take the trouble to learn something about dilbit oil and the Athabasca oil sands operation.

You might also read about the dilbit oil spill in the Kalamazoo river and it's cost before you draw any hasty conclusions and then consider what happens if there is a dilbit spill that contaminate the Ooglala aquifer or the Missour river or one of it's major tributaries and the cost of such a clean up.

The Keystone pipeline is essentially offering a short term economic stimulus as a construction project to transport an oil product of marginal value which has the risk of having little to no value if the cost per barrel drops significantly under $100. Even if it does have viability it would most likely be processed for consumption in Asia with marginal economic impact. The marginal nature of this product versus the substantial environmental impact of a dilbit oil spill meams that the Keystone project will probably die.
 
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Yes....the odds of a spill do increase in shipment by rail....only problem is that their being shipped by rail in Canada so that risk is theirs...not ours.

You shoud also might want to actually know what your talking about on the environmental and economic side and take the trouble to learn something about dilbit oil and the Athabasca oil sands operation.

You might also read about the dilbit oil spill in the Kalamazoo river and it's cost before you draw any hasty conclusions.

Typical liberal egghead. I don't know anything about the environment but I talk about it all the time. I don't have time to study every single subject I opine about. Unlike liberals I have a job, sorry.
 
Typical liberal egghead. I don't know anything about the environment but I talk about it all the time. I don't have time to study every single subject I opine about. Unlike liberals I have a job, sorry.
LOL So we juz needs ter go aherd and shiper on thru cause we jist aints gots da time ter thinks about it tis wat use sayin? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
 
Yes....the odds of a spill do increase in shipment by rail....only problem is that their being shipped by rail in Canada so that risk is theirs...not ours.

You honestly think they are going to ship via rail through Canada and not down towards our refineries in TX? Exactly what refineries do you think they will ship to via rail?

You also might want to actually know what your talking about on the environmental and economic side and take the trouble to learn something about dilbit oil and the Athabasca oil sands operation.

I understand the economic side. You obviously do not. As for the environmental side... please highlight where you think I was wrong in my comments.

You might also read about the dilbit oil spill in the Kalamazoo river and it's cost before you draw any hasty conclusions and then consider what happens if there is a dilbit spill that contaminate the Ooglala aquifer or the Missour river or one of it's major tributaries and the cost of such a clean up.

Yes... accidents would indeed be bad. Clean up would be costly. Just imagine what would happen if a nuke plant exploded. My gosh, the costs of that... you really should consider that. And what if a coal mine exploded... holy shit, the costs of that would be bad too. Just imagine if the sun went out... golly gee would we be fucked.



The Keystone pipeline is essentially offering a short term economic stimulus as a construction project to transport an oil product of marginal value which has the risk of having little to no value if the cost per barrel drops significantly under $100. Even if it does have viability it would most likely be processed for consumption in Asia with marginal economic impact. The marginal nature of this product versus the substantial environmental impact of a dilbit oil spill meams that the Keystone project will probably die.

LOL... short term? It would be the third largest oil site in the world. The oil would be refined in the US (mo money mo money). The plastics it would be used for in Asia are for products sold back to us in the US. Increases in supply will help to lower costs of production. I wonder who all will benefit from that? Both Asian companies and US consumers... not to mention some US companies producing in Asia.

What are the odds of a pipeline spill Mutt? You act like they are going to look at a worst case scenario and scrap the project as a result. If the odds were high, you would be correct. But as I mocked you earlier for... if every undertaking for energy production followed the same line of 'logic' we would still be living in caves scared to death to light a fire for fear of the worst case scenario.
 
LOL So we juz needs ter go aherd and shiper on thru cause we jist aints gots da time ter thinks about it tis wat use sayin? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Instead you scream 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' and 'you don't know what u talkin bout'... rather than pointing out where I am wrong?
 
I don't think keystone will be built while Obama is in office or if Clinton wins.
It's a cheap bullshit political win! Nothing more.
I really don't care, republicans fight a phony foe in abortion.
 
I don't think keystone will be built while Obama is in office or if Clinton wins.
It's a cheap bullshit political win! Nothing more.
I really don't care, republicans fight a phony foe in abortion.
That's a fine political answer but give us your sophisticated insider business analysis, sans the politics, of what you think it's prospects are from a market standpoint?
 
That's a fine political answer but give us your sophisticated insider business analysis, sans the politics, of what you think it's prospects are from a market standpoint?

Odd that you didn't address the rebuttal of your earlier nonsense.

From a market standpoint, the oil is coming out of the ground as long as oil remains above $80/brl. Worldwide demand will support that price point barring a massive recession that lasts several years. The pipeline to existing refining capacity makes the most sense. From an environmental standpoint piping it is safer than truck or rail. Unless you have a magic alternative that can be put in place today that is economically viable, then that oil is coming out.
 
Yes....the odds of a spill do increase in shipment by rail....only problem is that their being shipped by rail in Canada so that risk is theirs...not ours.

You also might want to actually know what your talking about on the environmental and economic side and take the trouble to learn something about dilbit oil and the Athabasca oil sands operation.

You might also read about the dilbit oil spill in the Kalamazoo river and it's cost before you draw any hasty conclusions and then consider what happens if there is a dilbit spill that contaminate the Ooglala aquifer or the Missour river or one of it's major tributaries and the cost of such a clean up.

The Keystone pipeline is essentially offering a short term economic stimulus as a construction project to transport an oil product of marginal value which has the risk of having little to no value if the cost per barrel drops significantly under $100. Even if it does have viability it would most likely be processed for consumption in Asia with marginal economic impact. The marginal nature of this product versus the substantial environmental impact of a dilbit oil spill meams that the Keystone project will probably die.

We heard the very same environmental bullshit when the Alaska Pipeline was proposed. None of the whacko environmental disaster predictions turned out to be true. As a side effect, Caribou herds are thriving rather than dying.
 
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