Wagner will pull out of Bakhmut: Mercenary chief is set to hand over ruined city

S

serendipity

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Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the Wagner private army, says his soldiers will leave the city on Thursday and hand it over to the Russian military.

'Until May 25, we will completely inspect it, create the necessary defense lines and hand it over to the military so that they can continue to work, and we ourselves will go to field camps,' he said.

Bakhmut is likely to be again on the frontlines of the conflict, as Ukrainians lay the groundwork for a counter-offensive, raising the prospect that it could change hands once more if the regular Russian army is unable to repel Kyiv's forces.

Russia's state troops have been derided throughout the war as ill-disciplined and suffering from low morale, with bizarre punishments from commanders including throwing soldiers in grilled holes underground for drunkenness.

In the meantime, the Wagner group was heaped with praise by Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose forces had been targeting Bakhmut unsuccessfully for eight months, CNN reports.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-mercenaries-Bakhmut-four-days-hand-army.html
 
The Ukrainians spent over five years fortifying Artemivsk, and still managed to lose it to the Russians.

#LOSING
 
serendipity said:
Yevgeny Prigozhin, head of the Wagner private army, says his soldiers will leave the city on Thursday and hand it over to the Russian military.

'Until May 25, we will completely inspect it, create the necessary defense lines and hand it over to the military so that they can continue to work, and we ourselves will go to field camps,' he said.

Bakhmut is likely to be again on the frontlines of the conflict, as Ukrainians lay the groundwork for a counter-offensive, raising the prospect that it could change hands once more if the regular Russian army is unable to repel Kyiv's forces.

Russia's state troops have been derided throughout the war as ill-disciplined and suffering from low morale, with bizarre punishments from commanders including throwing soldiers in grilled holes underground for drunkenness.

In the meantime, the Wagner group was heaped with praise by Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose forces had been targeting Bakhmut unsuccessfully for eight months, CNN reports.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-mercenaries-Bakhmut-four-days-hand-army.html
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Kyiv has a lot bigger issues than poor morale in its ranks. It's running out of weapons funding, for one. Here's an article published 6 days ago:

Ukraine Aid Funding Expected to Run Out by Mid-Summer | antiwar.com

Another article published 6 days ago that brings up a lot of good points:

Scott Ritter: Ukraine’s ‘Counteroffensive’ - Myth or Reality? | sputnikglobe.com

Quoting its conclusion:

**
The Ukrainian conflict has taken the US and NATO by surprise in terms of its intensity and lethality, both of which, at the end of the day, equate to the cost of waging modern war in terms of economic, material, and lives. While the cost of war is a two-way street, meaning that Russia is likewise suffering a massive human and economic toll, the ultimate question is what is the collective West’s pain threshold? While US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin noted a year ago that the goal of the US in Ukraine was to inflict pain on Russia of such intensity that it would serve to deter any future acts of Russian “aggression” in Europe, it is now becoming clear that it is the US which is beginning to feel the pinch, both in terms of the impact the continuing support for Ukraine has had on US military preparedness, and the high cost of underwriting Ukraine’s ability to sustain this war, which is currently estimated at more than $130 billion and growing.

As President Joe Biden begins his bid for re-election, the domestic political consequences of a “frozen” conflict in Ukraine which continues to sap US military and economic resources will become a political liability. While Volodymyr Zelensky seeks more time to get fully prepared for a counteroffensive, time is not on the side of Ukraine’s number one supporter. At the end of the day, Ukraine will be pressured by the US to carry out a decisive strike against Russia it simply cannot accomplish. The 30,000 troops Ukraine has carefully accumulated will be lost fighting a Russian military than is more than capable of handling whatever Ukraine sends its way. This does not mean that Ukraine will not achieve momentary tactical advantage over small portions of the battlefield, or that Russia won’t suffer losses. But at the end of the day Russia is far more prepared to handle the consequences of a Ukrainian counteroffensive than Ukraine and NATO are, if and when it finally occurs.
**
 
Phoenyx said:
Kyiv has a lot bigger issues than poor morale in its ranks. It's running out of weapons funding, for one. Here's an article published 6 days ago:

Ukraine Aid Funding Expected to Run Out by Mid-Summer | antiwar.com

Another article published 6 days ago that brings up a lot of good points:

Scott Ritter: Ukraine’s ‘Counteroffensive’ - Myth or Reality? | sputnikglobe.com

Quoting its conclusion:

**
The Ukrainian conflict has taken the US and NATO by surprise in terms of its intensity and lethality, both of which, at the end of the day, equate to the cost of waging modern war in terms of economic, material, and lives. While the cost of war is a two-way street, meaning that Russia is likewise suffering a massive human and economic toll, the ultimate question is what is the collective West’s pain threshold? While US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin noted a year ago that the goal of the US in Ukraine was to inflict pain on Russia of such intensity that it would serve to deter any future acts of Russian “aggression” in Europe, it is now becoming clear that it is the US which is beginning to feel the pinch, both in terms of the impact the continuing support for Ukraine has had on US military preparedness, and the high cost of underwriting Ukraine’s ability to sustain this war, which is currently estimated at more than $130 billion and growing.

As President Joe Biden begins his bid for re-election, the domestic political consequences of a “frozen” conflict in Ukraine which continues to sap US military and economic resources will become a political liability. While Volodymyr Zelensky seeks more time to get fully prepared for a counteroffensive, time is not on the side of Ukraine’s number one supporter. At the end of the day, Ukraine will be pressured by the US to carry out a decisive strike against Russia it simply cannot accomplish. The 30,000 troops Ukraine has carefully accumulated will be lost fighting a Russian military than is more than capable of handling whatever Ukraine sends its way. This does not mean that Ukraine will not achieve momentary tactical advantage over small portions of the battlefield, or that Russia won’t suffer losses. But at the end of the day Russia is far more prepared to handle the consequences of a Ukrainian counteroffensive than Ukraine and NATO are, if and when it finally occurs.
**
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Sorry but Anti-war and Sputnik are not reliable sources, to mind at least.
 
serendipity said:
Phoenyx said:
Kyiv has a lot bigger issues than poor morale in its ranks. It's running out of weapons funding, for one. Here's an article published 6 days ago:

Ukraine Aid Funding Expected to Run Out by Mid-Summer | antiwar.com

Another article published 6 days ago that brings up a lot of good points:

Scott Ritter: Ukraine’s ‘Counteroffensive’ - Myth or Reality? | sputnikglobe.com

Quoting its conclusion:

**
The Ukrainian conflict has taken the US and NATO by surprise in terms of its intensity and lethality, both of which, at the end of the day, equate to the cost of waging modern war in terms of economic, material, and lives. While the cost of war is a two-way street, meaning that Russia is likewise suffering a massive human and economic toll, the ultimate question is what is the collective West’s pain threshold? While US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin noted a year ago that the goal of the US in Ukraine was to inflict pain on Russia of such intensity that it would serve to deter any future acts of Russian “aggression” in Europe, it is now becoming clear that it is the US which is beginning to feel the pinch, both in terms of the impact the continuing support for Ukraine has had on US military preparedness, and the high cost of underwriting Ukraine’s ability to sustain this war, which is currently estimated at more than $130 billion and growing.

As President Joe Biden begins his bid for re-election, the domestic political consequences of a “frozen” conflict in Ukraine which continues to sap US military and economic resources will become a political liability. While Volodymyr Zelensky seeks more time to get fully prepared for a counteroffensive, time is not on the side of Ukraine’s number one supporter. At the end of the day, Ukraine will be pressured by the US to carry out a decisive strike against Russia it simply cannot accomplish. The 30,000 troops Ukraine has carefully accumulated will be lost fighting a Russian military than is more than capable of handling whatever Ukraine sends its way. This does not mean that Ukraine will not achieve momentary tactical advantage over small portions of the battlefield, or that Russia won’t suffer losses. But at the end of the day Russia is far more prepared to handle the consequences of a Ukrainian counteroffensive than Ukraine and NATO are, if and when it finally occurs.
**
Click to expand...

Sorry but Anti-war and Sputnik are not reliable sources, to mind at least.
Click to expand...

The antiwar.com article is based on a politico.com article. As can be expected from the mainstream media, it's more upbeat about Kyiv's chances, but the basic message is the same. You can read it here:

The end of Ukraine aid is rapidly approaching. Reupping it won’t be easy | politico.com

As to the Sputnik article, I think the important thing is who's writing it, not who's publishing it. Scott Ritter is a former marine intelligence officer and weapons inspector and has published a great deal of good articles on the subject of the Ukraine war, as well as been interviewed by a lot of youtubers that I find to be quite good. He usually writes a few articles monthly for Consortium News:

https://consortiumnews.com/tag/scott-ritter/
 
serendipity said:
Not sure who to believe!!
President Zelensky say Bakhmut is NOT occupied by Russia and Ukrainian generals claim they are catching Kremlin forces in a 'semi encirclement' - hours after Wagner said it had seized control of ruined city

https://mol.im/a/12107857 via https://dailym.ai/android
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I certainly think it's possible that Russia's regular military units are not as good at holding territory as Wagner group. That being said, there's nothing like being in the trenches to get better at it. Furthermore, from what I've heard, Ukraine will be running out of artillery soon, especially considering the fact that Russia's been targetting its ammunition depots. Once that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were the one to start an offensive. I suspect that the muds have dried or almost so.
 
Rumors abound and who knows for sure? The pro-Putinites believe what they want. The Ukrainians believe what they want.
 
Tinkerpeach said:
Anyone who thinks Ukraine has a chance are going to be very disappointed
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They will be fine if NATO would put in a half million troops, which the Ukrainians are trying to make happen, they are doing everything they can think of to make that happen.

It wont.
 
Phoenyx said:
Scott Ritter is a former marine intelligence officer and weapons inspector and has published a great deal of good articles on the subject of the Ukraine war, as well as been interviewed by a lot of youtubers that I find to be quite good.
Click to expand...

Here’s a report of an interview that Ritter gave last year:


Poland is going to occupy Western Ukraine

Poland is sending its military in support of Kiev to prepare and train them to further occupy the western part of the country, retired U.S. Marine intelligence officer Scott Ritter said in an interview with the YouTube channel Judging Freedom.

The interview notes that Poland has sent tens of thousands of soldiers who are fighting in Ukrainian uniforms ... Ritter adds that when the time comes these troops will be sent to western Ukraine.

https://www.tvr.by/eng/news/v_mire/...sha_gotovitsya_okkupirovat_zapadnuyu_ukrainu/

Ritter is backed up by no less than the head of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, Sergey Naryshkin. “Naryshkin said in an interview with RIA Novosti that there was information that Warsaw was speeding up preparations for the annexation of western Ukrainian lands.”

Do you believe this pair, Phoenyx?
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
Here’s a report of an interview that Ritter gave last year:


Poland is going to occupy Western Ukraine

Poland is sending its military in support of Kiev to prepare and train them to further occupy the western part of the country, retired U.S. Marine intelligence officer Scott Ritter said in an interview with the YouTube channel Judging Freedom.

The interview notes that Poland has sent tens of thousands of soldiers who are fighting in Ukrainian uniforms ... Ritter adds that when the time comes these troops will be sent to western Ukraine.

https://www.tvr.by/eng/news/v_mire/...sha_gotovitsya_okkupirovat_zapadnuyu_ukrainu/


He’s backed up by no less than the head of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, Sergey Naryshkin. “Naryshkin said in an interview with RIA Novosti that there was information that Warsaw was speeding up preparations for the annexation of western Ukrainian lands.”

Do you believe this pair, Phoenyx?
Click to expand...

I heard Ritter say in the last two weeks that the Poles have changed their minds. I suspect that the Chinese have something to do with this.

EDIT: Maybe it was MacGregor....someone who is right a high percentage of the time said that the Poles have had enough contact with reality to drop this reckless idea.
 
Phoenyx said:
I certainly think it's possible that Russia's regular military units are not as good at holding territory as Wagner group. That being said, there's nothing like being in the trenches to get better at it. Furthermore, from what I've heard, Ukraine will be running out of artillery soon, especially considering the fact that Russia's been targetting its ammunition depots. Once that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if Russia were the one to start an offensive. I suspect that the muds have dried or almost so.
Click to expand...
Ukraine just got cruise missiles with 155 mile range. I suspect Russia will be having very big ammo dump problems very soon. Remember even Wagner was having huge issues with getting ammo even before Ukraine got cruise missiles what do you think will happen to Russian regulars now?
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I heard Ritter say in the last two weeks that the Poles have changed their minds. I suspect that the Chinese have something to do with this.

EDIT: Maybe it was MacGregor....someone who is right a high percentage of the time said that the Poles have had enough contact with reality to drop this reckless idea.
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt a NATO country will occupy any part of Ukraine. Not ever going to happen. :laugh:
 
Somebody on my vine (cant remember who) said a few days back that the Ukrainians can be expected to deny that they lost Artemivsk for as long as they are allowed to get away with it...He suggested two weeks.

We shall now see if this is correct.
 
I like Alexander Mercouris's habit of reverting to Russian names for places as they retake historically Russian lands, which the people I listen to say will be the theme of the summer if the West does not surrender to Russias demands that what is left of Ukraine will be neutral.
 
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