Those poor Milwaukee teachers

A $59K salary is actually pretty horrible for a profession where we should care about attracting the best.

As far as I'm concerned, they can't pay teachers enough. If we want to continue to compete in the world marketplace, this country has to place a much, much higher value on the profession of teaching....
 
Onceler said:
A $59K salary is actually pretty horrible for a profession where we should care about attracting the best.

As far as I'm concerned, they can't pay teachers enough. If we want to continue to compete in the world marketplace, this country has to place a much, much higher value on the profession of teaching....
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Well I am glad we don't pay teachers according to your concern...

60k as a base pay is good money...41k in benni's is ridiculously high for ANY public employee-especially in this economy.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Well I am glad we don't pay teachers according to your concern...

60k as a base pay is good money...41k in benni's is ridiculously high for ANY public employee-especially in this economy.
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Where is that good pay? If you have a family and a mortgage, that barely cuts it. And we expect top quality with that?

If you righties want to look at this on a level you might understand, think about it from a national security perspective. We're losing ground in basically every area that starts with education - medicine, technology, energy, innovation. Complaining about teachers making an average of $60K isn't going to help us draw the best & brightest into the field, exactly.

Wise up.
 
60K would be enough

the median home price in the area of relavence is about 170K

Government jobs should not be the top the heap. It's not fair to tax people in companies that are required to be productive and profitable to continue to exist and then pay people the same or more money who have no responsibility to produce , no accountablity for failure, and aren't required to deliver results for fear of losing their assets.

Fuck you!
 
tinfoil said:
60K would be enough

the median home price in the area of relavence is about 170K

Government jobs should not be the top the heap. It's not fair to tax people in companies that are required to be productive and profitable to continue to exist and then pay people the same or more money who have no responsibility to produce , no accountablity for failure, and aren't required to deliver results for fear of losing their assets.

Fuck you!
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Talking about teaching like it's an average "government job" is pretty sad.

I'm amazed that people don't get it. Better pay = better teachers = better educated students = a more productive, competitive populace, and a better economy. It's that simple. It's as simple as it gets.
 
Onceler said:
Where is that good pay? If you have a family and a mortgage, that barely cuts it. And we expect top quality with that?

If you righties want to look at this on a level you might understand, think about it from a national security perspective. We're losing ground in basically every area that starts with education - medicine, technology, energy, innovation. Complaining about teachers making an average of $60K isn't going to help us draw the best & brightest into the field, exactly.

Wise up.
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Oh what fucking clap trap... No one is complaining about how much they make the point is they make a good living. In this economy they certainly need to do their fair share as PUBLIC employees and get the fuck off the gravy train known as collective strangulation... Enough is enough already!

And nice way to not mention what is under discussion and that would be their 41k benni's package! Let's not forget that for most married's there is another income in the house and for a single it's A VERY nice living!
 
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Ice Dancer said:
Well I am glad we don't pay teachers according to your concern...

60k as a base pay is good money...41k in benni's is ridiculously high for ANY public employee-especially in this economy.
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Why the fuck are you trying to Demonize teachers ID? It aint like they caused this recession. Where were you when the Wall Street Bankers who fucking created this mess were clamoring for their bonuses even after they tanked our economy and lost billions of dollars?

Those teachers negotiated those modest salaries and they earn them which is a hell of a lot more then you can say for those Wall Street Bankers and now you're pitching a bitch cause were not going to let you wing nuts pay for budget deficits that ya'll created on the backs of middle class working professionals. Get fucking real.
 
Onceler said:
Where is that good pay? If you have a family and a mortgage, that barely cuts it. And we expect top quality with that?

If you righties want to look at this on a level you might understand, think about it from a national security perspective. We're losing ground in basically every area that starts with education - medicine, technology, energy, innovation. Complaining about teachers making an average of $60K isn't going to help us draw the best & brightest into the field, exactly.

Wise up.
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The fucking Hipocracy here was that these are the same people who were defending bonuses for bailed out bankers for substantially greater sums on the bases of they contractually agreed to and that they needed bonuses to attract and retain talent (even when the dumb greedy bastards destroy their business and tank our economy....some fucking talent) and then these guys expected us to pay those pricks bonuses but let a teacher make a humble $60,000? Oh god forbid! How dare those greedy little bastard!
 
tinfoil said:
60K would be enough

the median home price in the area of relavence is about 170K

Government jobs should not be the top the heap. It's not fair to tax people in companies that are required to be productive and profitable to continue to exist and then pay people the same or more money who have no responsibility to produce , no accountablity for failure, and aren't required to deliver results for fear of losing their assets.

Fuck you!
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I see so what you're saying is that it's ok for you to charge what the market will bear for your services but that it's not ok for others to do so because they work for the government?

You're a fucking hypocrit and an idiot. Oncies right. I've turned down several offers as a high school science teacher cause I couldn't afford to take the pay cut. Yea....your model is really working at attracting top talent to a critical industry like education. No wonder our educational system can't compete with other industrialized nations and were producing vast numbers of paste eating mouth breathers like....well like you!
 
Onceler said:
Talking about teaching like it's an average "government job" is pretty sad.

I'm amazed that people don't get it. Better pay = better teachers = better educated students = a more productive, competitive populace, and a better economy. It's that simple. It's as simple as it gets.
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That's not the point either Oncie. What ID and Tinhead are saying is that if you decide to work for the government you no longer have rights. That a person employed in the private sector is intrinsically superior to a public sector employee and that there fore public sector employees are forbidden common rights such as negotiating for pay an benefits or charging the most the market will bear for their services.

I wonder how ID and Tin would feel if they were told that $20 an hour was far to much for the work they do and that a fixed wage of $15 an hour was more then fair for the work they do.

What's good for the goose is what's good for the gander.
 
Ice Dancer said:
Well I am glad we don't pay teachers according to your concern...

60k as a base pay is good money...41k in benni's is ridiculously high for ANY public employee-especially in this economy.
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Yes your right the benifits costs are high.

Why is that?

Because our health care system is screwed the fuck up in this country.


Now why do you fight every reasonable attempt to fix it to control the out of wack with the rest of the world costs?


Because you fear the booogey man of socialism.


Try quit accepting the booogey man your masters have set upo for you to fear so they can keep reaping in the cash at the detriment of Americans health and pocketbook.


Lets make health care affordable by making the public option a part of the system so that costs can be controled and the people milking the system for a buck have to find some other way to make a buck off the American people.


Trust me they will find another way to make a buck off you but it wont be at the countries detriment anymore.
 
evince said:
Yes your right the benifits costs are high.

Why is that?

Because our health care system is screwed the fuck up in this country.


Now why do you fight every reasonable attempt to fix it to control the out of wack with the rest of the world costs?


Because you fear the booogey man of socialism.


Try quit accepting the booogey man your masters have set upo for you to fear so they can keep reaping in the cash at the detriment of Americans health and pocketbook.


Lets make health care affordable by making the public option a part of the system so that costs can be controled and the people milking the system for a buck have to find some other way to make a buck off the American people.


Trust me they will find another way to make a buck off you but it wont be at the countries detriment anymore.
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That's just the symptom and not the problem Desh. These wingnuts cannot accept that it was conservative Wall Street Bankers that threw this nation into a recession and now they would rather continue giving irresponsible tax cuts to the wealthy that further aggravate budget woes then accept small tax increases. No they would rather demonize hard working middle class professionals who had nothing to do with causing this recession and pay for the budget woes they created on the backs of working people. It's just fucking sick I tell you.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I see so what you're saying is that it's ok for you to charge what the market will bear for your services but that it's not ok for others to do so because they work for the government?

You're a fucking hypocrit and an idiot. Oncies right. I've turned down several offers as a high school science teacher cause I couldn't afford to take the pay cut. Yea....your model is really working at attracting top talent to a critical industry like education. No wonder our educational system can't compete with other industrialized nations and were producing vast numbers of paste eating mouth breathers like....well like you!
Click to expand...

That $60K is pre-tax, what does net income work out to? Probably somewhere in the low $50s or high $40s. If a quarter of that income goes to the mortgage, these teachers aren't exactly living high off the hog.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Why the fuck are you trying to Demonize teachers ID? It aint like they caused this recession. Where were you when the Wall Street Bankers who fucking created this mess were clamoring for their bonuses even after they tanked our economy and lost billions of dollars?

Those teachers negotiated those modest salaries and they earn them which is a hell of a lot more then you can say for those Wall Street Bankers and now you're pitching a bitch cause were not going to let you wing nuts pay for budget deficits that ya'll created on the backs of middle class working professionals. Get fucking real.
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There was a cover story on one of the news sites last week about how teachers nationally are definitely "feelin' the scorn", and they don't understand it at all.

There is a weird backlash against teachers in America. People expect them to live an austere yet completely dedicated life, apparently - kind of like monks or charity workers. I have had a ton of interaction with teachers over the years, and the vast majority I have encountered work incredibly hard and are devoted to the welfare of the kids they are teaching; many often go the extra mile with kids who are having a difficult time or need extra attention.

It has become a relatively thankless profession. It's like a bizarro world, imo. Teaching should be one of our most heralded & rewarded positions...
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Why the fuck are you trying to Demonize teachers ID? It aint like they caused this recession. Where were you when the Wall Street Bankers who fucking created this mess were clamoring for their bonuses even after they tanked our economy and lost billions of dollars?

Those teachers negotiated those modest salaries and they earn them which is a hell of a lot more then you can say for those Wall Street Bankers and now you're pitching a bitch cause were not going to let you wing nuts pay for budget deficits that ya'll created on the backs of middle class working professionals. Get fucking real.
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I am fucking demonizing public unions- Mott... They, public unions, did not cause the recession, but reigning in public unions is PART OF THE SOLUTION! Wall Street get all kinds of regulations...now we also need to regulate public unions...

Are you suggesting that when you go after Wall Street that what you are really doing is demonizing the private sector workers?

Posters such as yourself always want to paint this picture of "poor teachers". This thread shows that is hardly the case...so take your hyperbole and pitch it to someone who is willing to do the buy in.
 
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christiefan915 said:
That $60K is pre-tax, what does net income work out to? Probably somewhere in the low $50s or high $40s. If a quarter of that income goes to the mortgage, these teachers aren't exactly living high off the hog.
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Depending on how many dependents you have and deductions like home, student loans, etc, you'd be making in the low to high 40's take home. Keep in mind that that's an "average" salary and probably isn't representative. I'm reasonably sure that the median income for Milwaukee teachers is significantly lower and if ID had wanted to be honest she would have posted median and not mean incomes. One should also keep in mind that this average is also representative for mid to end of career educators and is not representative at all for entry level and young educators. Those salaries are much lower.
 
Onceler said:
There was a cover story on one of the news sites last week about how teachers nationally are definitely "feelin' the scorn", and they don't understand it at all.

There is a weird backlash against teachers in America. People expect them to live an austere yet completely dedicated life, apparently - kind of like monks or charity workers. I have had a ton of interaction with teachers over the years, and the vast majority I have encountered work incredibly hard and are devoted to the welfare of the kids they are teaching; many often go the extra mile with kids who are having a difficult time or need extra attention.

It has become a relatively thankless profession. It's like a bizarro world, imo. Teaching should be one of our most heralded & rewarded positions...
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It's because many of those who give lip service to educators but don't really have a high regard for those who's job is nurturing the talents of children. Sad but true.

I have two cousins who are both teachers. One has a BS in agricultural engineering and the other has a BS in math. Both teach high school and both have MA's in secondary education. Both have been ardent Republicans since they were old enough to vote and for quite a few years they laughed at me when I told them "One of these days you'll be sorry" and now that day has come and they just can't believe what is happening to them and how they are being demonized for a problem the didn't cause and for which they are an important part of the solution. You are right, it is some kind of bizzaro world.
 
Ice Dancer said:
I am fucking demonizing public unions- Mott... They, public unions, did not cause the recession, but reigning in public unions is PART OF THE SOLUTION! Wall Street get all kinds of regulations...now we also need to regulate public unions...

Are you suggesting that when you go after Wall Street that what you are really doing is demonizing the private sector workers?

Posters such as yourself always want to paint this picture of "poor teachers". This thread shows that is hardly the case...so take your hyperbole and pitch it to someone who is willing to do the buy in.
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You're fucked in the head woman if you think taking away peoples basic rights is a solution to any problem.

It's like I said, you right wingers are all for freedom and liberty until someone actually practices them. The first time we have a problem and your solution is curbing the rights and freedoms of others. Go ahead and demonize working people cause that's what you're doing when you demonize collective bargaining rights.

You're a hyporcrit too cause you'd be screaming louder than anyone someone tried telling you that you are worth only so much and that we have a right to fix your pay and that you don't have a right to have a say about that.

And no I'm not demonizing private sector workers when I hold Wall Street Bankers accountable for their wreckless actions for two reason. #1. Their not workers, their management and thus should be held accountable when the business they are responsible for running goes belly up and #2. because they ARE responsible for this current recession and that's an objective fact.
 
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