Those Nutty Tea Party Folks

[Epicurus]

lol bunch of sour grapes you are.

Don't worry, someday you'll be out of power and you too can once again feign mass public support via heavily-televised opposition demonstrations.

All part of the dance.

 

[Bonestorm]

I don't know if it was supported, masterminded, or coopted by Freedomworks, but it really matters much less than the perception of its origin. And the perception is that its origin is individual people upset over flagrant waste of taxpayer dollars demonstrating in a historically important way. That's a compelling storyline to start with, so I guess that's why Dungheap is trying to hard to make this out to be an official Republican astroturf movement.

I don't so much care about how it really started as much as what effect it will have on the political system. People like Annie are going to argue that it was individuals; people like Dungheap are going to argue that it was rightwing RNC-affiliated organizations. I am not going to get sucked into that argument. I am much more interested in observing its effects than documenting and debating its origin.

That's priceless. It doesn't matter if this isn't really a grassroots campaign but a well-orchestrated astroturf campaign rolled out by FreedomWorks and other right-wing groups supported by Koch Family money?

Get real. These guys are co-opting legitimate outrage to support their corporate agendas and support for the status quo ante Obama. If you want to be used by the same knuckleheads that got filthy rich driving the economy into the ground (profits may come and go, but management fees and commissions are forever) by all means. Don't let me stop you.

 

[Epicurus]

Facebook is for people who didn't need their kids to explain to them what "tea bagging" is.

They are trying to dismiss it, because they know it can be effective. We'll likely be at the one in Denver on Tax Day. You going to one?

Meh. I wouldn't call myself a supporter of them per se. I might go to check one out but I don't feel compelled to. I don't typically like being associated with loud, obnoxious protesters regardless of ideology or party affiliation.

As a political observer though, I find them to be interesting. Particularly the extremely effective way they have utilized social networking sites to turn out people. People on my Facebook friends list who were completely apolitical six months ago are attending these things. That in itself is amazing to me and a great accomplishment. If the Tea Parties change nothing about policy, they will have at least inspired many young people to be politically active.

 

[Epicurus]

That's priceless. It doesn't matter if this isn't really a grassroots campaign but a well-orchestrated astroturf campaign rolled out by FreedomWorks and other right-wing groups supported by Koch Family money?

Get real. These guys are co-opting legitimate outrage to support their corporate agendas and support for the status quo ante Obama. If you want to be used by the same knuckleheads that got filthy rich driving the economy into the ground (profits may come and go, but management fees and commissions are forever) by all means. Don't let me stop you.

It doesn't matter to me. It clearly does to you and Annie. Maybe you two should talk about it.

 

[Damocles]

Meh. I wouldn't call myself a supporter of them per se. I might go to check one out but I don't feel compelled to. I don't typically like being associated with loud, obnoxious protesters regardless of ideology or party affiliation.

As a political observer though, I find them to be interesting. Particularly the extremely effective way they have utilized social networking sites to turn out people. People on my Facebook friends list who were completely apolitical six months ago are attending these things. That in itself is amazing to me and a great accomplishment. If the Tea Parties change nothing about policy, they will have at least inspired many young people to be politically active.

Yeah, mostly I'd be there to take pictures and maybe post a few here. I'm fascinated by this stuff. I tried to get off for the DNC for the same purpose, but unfortunately couldn't.

 

[Epicurus]

Just out of curiosity though, Dungheap, what makes you say that? Making that kind of determination would require piecing together an accurate timeline of the growth of the Tea Party movement, which I have neither the time nor the inclination to do. It initially involved some very small, barely covered events and spread online both of which make its origins notoriously hard to reconstruct.

 

[cawacko]

Meh. I wouldn't call myself a supporter of them per se. I might go to check one out but I don't feel compelled to. I don't typically like being associated with loud, obnoxious protesters regardless of ideology or party affiliation.

As a political observer though, I find them to be interesting. Particularly the extremely effective way they have utilized social networking sites to turn out people. People on my Facebook friends list who were completely apolitical six months ago are attending these things. That in itself is amazing to me and a great accomplishment. If the Tea Parties change nothing about policy, they will have at least inspired many young people to be politically active.

I went to three Iraq War protests in San Francisco because just like you described as a political observer I wanted to see what they were all about.

 

[Epicurus]

That's priceless. It doesn't matter if this isn't really a grassroots campaign but a well-orchestrated astroturf campaign rolled out by FreedomWorks and other right-wing groups supported by Koch Family money?

Get real. These guys are co-opting legitimate outrage to support their corporate agendas and support for the status quo ante Obama. If you want to be used by the same knuckleheads that got filthy rich driving the economy into the ground (profits may come and go, but management fees and commissions are forever) by all means. Don't let me stop you.

You could very well say the same thing about the anti-Bush, anti-war protestors but I think it would be a stretch in both cases.

 

[Annie]

Bad sign verbiage.

Republicans really are novices when it comes to protesting...

Indeed, homemade and everything. All the more reason Dung is looking a bit silly here. No Moveon, Soros backing going on here. The one in Coral Beach or Clearwater was nearly cancelled for Wednesday due to lack of permit.

 

[blackascoal]

You obviously don't have a Facebook. This shit is everywhere. All the social networking sites are spreading invitations to various tea party demonstrations.

You can have a lot of legitimate disagreements with it, but to call it a demonstration of old people could not be more wrong. The only people I actually know in real life who have been a part of it are young people.

You're correct, I don't do FaceBook .. but I don't have to do FaceBook to know that the VAST majority of people behind this are not young people.

I have no doubt that you can find examples of some young people, including those forced there by mommy, and even an isolated African-American or two .. but my positon still stands.

Additionally, this is just placebo for helpless American minds. It gives them the feeling that they've actually done something to effect government when in fact they've done nothing.

Send a tea bag to Congress and let's see if it gets past screeners who have been in place since the anthrax scare after 9/11.

Most of those doing "tea parties" are on the right and they had nothing to say while the republicans were screwing up the country .. now they want to have a tea party.

C'mon .. how about grown-up solutions?

 

[Annie]

You're correct, I don't do FaceBook .. but I don't have to do FaceBook to know that the VAST majority of people behind this are not young people.

I have no doubt that you can find examples of some young people, including those forced there by mommy, and even an isolated African-American or two .. but my positon still stands.

Additionally, this is just placebo for helpless American minds. It gives them the feeling that they've actually done something to effect government when in fact they've done nothing.

Send a tea bag to Congress and let's see if it gets past screeners who have been in place since the anthrax scare after 9/11.

Most of those doing "tea parties" are on the right and they had nothing to say while the republicans were screwing up the country .. now they want to have a tea party.

C'mon .. how about grown-up solutions?

BAC I think you've got to be a 'Republican' to get this. They were very frustrated with Bush, especially after 2006. Now they had to deal with McCain and his choice for VP, hell to some of us, that made President Obama look more plausible. They he entered with the agenda you feel too mainstream, most feel too liberal or just right.

The Conservatives are frustrated, in fact literally scared at what's being spent in their names. There is no one in congress right now listening, so they are taking the lesson from the left and hitting on state reps for the most part. I'm certain it's quite awkward, as most spent their college years avoiding such gatherings.

 

[blackascoal]

BAC I think you've got to be a 'Republican' to get this. They were very frustrated with Bush, especially after 2006. Now they had to deal with McCain and his choice for VP, hell to some of us, that made President Obama look more plausible. They he entered with the agenda you feel too mainstream, most feel too liberal or just right.

The Conservatives are frustrated, in fact literally scared at what's being spent in their names. There is no one in congress right now listening, so they are taking the lesson from the left and hitting on state reps for the most part. I'm certain it's quite awkward, as most spent their college years avoiding such gatherings.

That's actually a very good assessment that even a socialist like myself can understand good sister.

But it also illustrates why American politics has become such a disastrous failure. Both democrats and republicans remain silent when bad policy is being attempted by their side, then feign outrage when they lose and the other side gets to make bad policy.

It's heads, corporations win, and tails, they win and get your money.

The stark and glaring reality in America that no one has the courage to face is that we have morphed into a plutocracy of corporate control and neither tea parties or demonstrations are going to change that.

Obama, like Bush, like Clinton, like Reagan, like Bush 1 is owned by the plutocracy/corporations. Carter may be the exception.

The Clintons now probably have more money than the Queen of England.

 

[Epicurus]

Well while I probably don't agree with bac's grandiose vision for fixing the problem, we can certainly agree that the current system of privatizing profit and socializing losses unquestionably combines the worst of both our ideologies.

 

[blackascoal]

Well while I probably don't agree with bac's grandiose vision for fixing the problem, we can certainly agree that the current system of privatizing profit and socializing losses unquestionably combines the worst of both our ideologies.

Nor does privatizing democracy work brother .. and that's what we have done. We have privatized democracy because there is no provisoin in democracy that prohibits its privatization.

 

[Epicurus]

My point being that our current system of economic response (bail out failed companies with taxpayer dollars) combines the very worst aspects of both socialism and free-market capitalism. It encourages irresponsible and reckless speculation, while costing working taxpayers.

 

[blackascoal]

My point being that our current system of economic response (bail out failed companies with taxpayer dollars) combines the very worst aspects of both socialism and free-market capitalism. It encourages irresponsible and reckless speculation, while costing working taxpayers.

There is no such thing as a "free-market". Like religion, it only exists in the mind of the believer.

Although I believe there is a role for government to play in assisting critical industries, I agree that this current spate of bailouts is not in out best interests.

 

[evince]

man do those kids look miserable in those pics

 

[Annie]

Nor does privatizing democracy work brother .. and that's what we have done. We have privatized democracy because there is no provisoin in democracy that prohibits its privatization.

BAC if not too personal or naive, may I ask you how you'd like to see the government/economic system run? What do you mean by 'socialist', as it seems to have a moving definition, much like the Constitution or the Bible?

 

[Epicurus]

There is no such thing as a "free-market". Like religion, it only exists in the mind of the believer.

There is, and we don't have it. But that is not my argument right now and I'm not going to get sidetracked into discussing this. That is a philosophical disagreement worthy of its own forum and there are intelligent people on both sides of the issue. What we agree on is more important.