These NFL Guys On Bended Knee.....

philly rabbit said:
You're talking about Key's poem. Who isn't racist for black lives matter who is white from our historical past?
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Nobody, and that's the point. Racism is a social institution, and people execute racism by living according to the norms of a white supremacist society, even if they don't wear hoods and fly swastikas. You can, as it were, opt-out, but only by actively opposing white supremacy as a militant. You don't get to live in America, love it and laud it as the greatest nation on earth, and say you're not a racist.
 
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Rose said:
Nobody, and that's the point. Racism is a social institution, and by people are execute racism by living according to the norms of a white supremacist society, if people they don't wear hoods and fly swastikas. You can, as it were, opt-out, but only by actively opposing white supremacy as a militant. You don't get to live in America, love it and laud it as the greatest nation on earth, and say you're not a racist.
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Sure you do. Vote democratic. Get woke Rose
 
Rose said:
Nobody, and that's the point. Racism is a social institution, and people execute racism by living according to the norms of a white supremacist society, even if they don't wear hoods and fly swastikas. You can, as it were, opt-out, but only by actively opposing white supremacy as a militant. You don't get to live in America, love it and laud it as the greatest nation on earth, and say you're not a racist.
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You don't get to make that determination, Rosebud.
 
Rose said:
Am I wrong?
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Yes, Rosebud, you are, and here's why: I never owned slaves, my ancestors never owned slaves.

I have never tolerated racism - quite the opposite, as my post history here will reveal, should you care to peruse it.

Unless you can make the case that simply living in the USA makes me complicit in racism, you are wrong. I invite you to try.

You certainly don't have the moral or legal authority to demand that I accept your characterization.
 
Godless America said:
Yes, Rosebud, you are, and here's why: I never owned slaves, my ancestors never owned slaves.

I have never tolerated racism - quite the opposite, as my post history here will reveal, should you care to peruse it.

Unless you can make the case that simply living in the USA makes me complicit in racism, you are wrong. I invite you to try.

You certainly don't have the moral or legal authority to demand that I accept your characterization.
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I'm not actually interested in your personal affairs, or in making a moralistic point here.

Basically my point is this. (1) The United States is a country founded on white supremacy. (2) 'White supremacy' is not a moral disposition but a social system. (3) To benefit from white supremacy qua a social system, you do not need to display overtly racist sentiments. (3a) To participate in white supremacy, you do not need to conduct overtly racist activities. (4) Therefore, non-racist is an irrelevant category (as is the non-complity of passive individuals) and we should state that only a person who opposes racism in their action is opposed to racism.

This is basically the point that the Israelis put into law after the Eichmann trial... You are morally responsible, even if you're simply doing your job, and only active opposition or active non-participation counts if you want say you're not a racist.
 
Rose said:
I'm not actually interested in your personal affairs, or in making a moralistic point here. Basically my point is this. (1) The United States is a country founded on white supremacy. (2) 'White supremacy' is not a moral disposition but a social system. (3) To benefit from white supremacy qua a social system, you do not need to display overtly racist sentiments. (3a) To participate in white supremacy, you do not need to conduct overtly racist activities. (4) Therefore, non-racist is an irrelevant category (as is the non-complity of passive individuals) and we should state that only a person who opposes racism in their action is opposed to racism. This is basically the point that the Israelis put into law after the Eichmann trial. You are morally responsible, even if you're simply doing your job, and only active opposition or active non-participation counts if you want say you're not a racist.
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I reject your assumptions, Rosebud, on the grounds that you have not supported them with credible evidence that compels me to accept them.

I don't need your permission to say that I am no racist, Rosebud, nor am I obliged to measure up to a standard you have concocted out of whole cloth.
 
Godless America said:
I reject your assumptions, Rosebud, on the grounds that you have not supported them with credible evidence that compels me to accept them.

I don't need your permission to say that I am no racist, Rosebud, nor am I obliged to measure up to a standard you have concocted out of whole cloth.
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Which claims do you want evidence for?
 
Thing1 said:
Do you see all dissent in that light?

Weird attitude to me. America has always been great because of our Constitution & principles, but people have always protested & took a stand against inequality, injustice & other problems. Even today, America is far from perfect, and people of all ideologies still fight to have the country's practices match its ideals.

You can say that the specifics of this protest - kneeling for the anthem - make this "different" somehow, but there have been all kinds of uncomfortable protests that moved our country ahead in important ways throughout our history.
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I'm not going to pretend that what these idiots are doing is the same thing as actually going out and participating in/organizing a protest (and coherently putting together arguments), and neither should you. All they are doing is giving America the finger. This isn't about telling them to stop; it's about getting idiots and liars to realize/admit to what they are doing.
 
Threedee said:
I'm not going to pretend that what these idiots are doing is the same thing as actually going out and participating in/organizing a protest (and coherently putting together arguments), and neither should you. All they are doing is giving America the finger. This isn't about telling them to stop; it's about getting idiots and liars to realize/admit to what they are doing.
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Protest comes in all shapes & sizes. A lot of it is simply to get people talking about an issue. People STILL talk about those dudes at the Olympics in the '70's who raised their fists.

The narrative that these are just "dumb athletes" is tired & lazy. For some, it takes a lot of courage to do what they're doing. Again - it likely cost Kaep millions, and a job. That's not just some doofus who hasn't thought things through. He's someone who is willing to give up his career to fight for equality - and by extension, improve this great country.
 
Threedee said:
I'm not going to pretend that what these idiots are doing is the same thing as actually going out and participating in/organizing a protest (and coherently putting together arguments), and neither should you. All they are doing is giving America the finger. This isn't about telling them to stop; it's about getting idiots and liars to realize/admit to what they are doing.
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it's unfocused angst..there is nothing coherent or continuous messaging.
The whole thing looks like an ad hoc misadventure
 
Dupe said:
Nobody, and that's the point. Racism is a social institution, and people execute racism by living according to the norms of a white supremacist society, even if they don't wear hoods and fly swastikas. You can, as it were, opt-out, but only by actively opposing white supremacy as a militant. You don't get to live in America, love it and laud it as the greatest nation on earth, and say you're not a racist.
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:legion:
 
Dupe said:
Basically my point is this.

(1) The United States is a country founded on white supremacy.
(2) 'White supremacy' is not a moral disposition but a social system.
(3) To benefit from white supremacy qua a social system, you do not need to display overtly racist sentiments.
(3a) To participate in white supremacy, you do not need to conduct overtly racist activities.
(4) Therefore, non-racist is an irrelevant category (as is the non-complity of passive individuals) and we should state that only a person who opposes racism in their action is opposed to racism.
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The DNC Party Platform. Any questions?

I hope the Party of the Jackass runs on this. :rofl2:
 
Threedee said:
I'm not going to pretend that what these idiots are doing is the same thing as actually going out and participating in/organizing a protest (and coherently putting together arguments), and neither should you. All they are doing is giving America the finger. This isn't about telling them to stop; it's about getting idiots and liars to realize/admit to what they are doing.
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^Gets it.
 
LittleThingy said:
Protest comes in all shapes & sizes. A lot of it is simply to get people talking about an issue. People STILL talk about those dudes at the Olympics in the '70's who raised their fists.

The narrative that these are just "dumb athletes" is tired & lazy. For some, it takes a lot of courage to do what they're doing. Again - it likely cost Kaep millions, and a job. That's not just some doofus who hasn't thought things through. He's someone who is willing to give up his career to fight for equality - and by extension, improve this great country.
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LittleThingy thinks this is honest debate.
:legion:
 
noise said:
it's unfocused angst..there is nothing coherent or continuous messaging.
The whole thing looks like an ad hoc misadventure
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This.

All they are doing is driving people away from anything worth hearing that they may happen to stand for. Even though I happen to disagree with the position that racial police targeting is an epidemic, I believe that a dialogue over such a potentially important matter is important to have. Protesting the flag and the anthem is a great way to shutdown that dialogue.
 
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