The Unbelievers

Timshel

New member
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/29/new-film-examines-science-vs-religion/

[URL="http://globalnews.ca/news/519097/dawkins-krauss-have-faith-in-the-unbelievers/"]http://globalnews.ca/news/519097/dawkins-krauss-have-faith-in-the-unbelievers/

[/URL]TORONTO — One of the hottest tickets at this year’s Hot Docs documentary festival in Toronto is for The Unbelievers — Monday’s world premiere and three subsequent screenings of the film are sold out.

The documentary follows evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and theoretical physicist Lawrence Krauss as they travel the world promoting the importance of science and reason in the modern world.

The pair specifically targets religion and faith.

“If something is comforting, that’s great, but it doesn’t make it true,” says Dawkins, arguably the world’s most famous atheist. “There are people who sincerely seem to think that because something is consoling or comforting that therefore it’s got to be true. That just isn’t logical.”

Appearing on Global’s The Morning Show, Dawkins quoted Canadian experimental psychologist Steven Pinker. “[He] said, ‘If you’re being chased by a tiger, it may comfort you to believe it’s a rabbit. But it is a tiger and it’s going to eat you.’”

Krauss, who was raised in Toronto, said the goal is not to make people feel bad about believing in God.

“We recognize that all of us need comfort in different ways,” he explains. “What we’re just trying to encourage people to do is get comfort from the real world.

“We’re not trying to take something away. We’re trying to add the wonder of reality, the poetry of the real universe, and say ‘you can get solace and wonder from the real world.’ It’s true, you can get comfort from religion but that doesn’t say you have to have religion to get comfort.”


He points out the universe does not exist so people can be happy. “We have to understand reality and if we get comfort from things that are imaginary, well, it helps us in the short run but in the long run it leads us to act in often irrational ways.”

Dawkins admits challenging religious beliefs makes some people very upset.

“Religious people do get extremely emotional. If you criticize their religion it’s almost as though you say they’ve got an ugly face or something,” he says. “All we’re doing is criticizing a view of the world which they hold and asking for the evidence, or criticizing the evidence.”

Dawkins hopes The Unbelievers will spark more debate and, perhaps, open a few minds.

“Science is wonderful, truth is wonderful, reality is wonderful,” he says. “People need to appreciate reality and not hide behind the smokescreen of superstition.”

Krauss says there’s hope, noting interest in religion is on the decline.

“More and more people are coming to realize that they can think for themselves,” says Krauss. “It’s amazing to discover that you’re wrong. In fact, it’s liberating. It’s not a threat. It opens your mind.”[URL="http://globalnews.ca/news/519097/dawkins-krauss-have-faith-in-the-unbelievers/"][/URL]
 
The documentary follows evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and theoretical physicist Lawrence Krauss as they travel the world promoting the importance of science and reason in the modern world.


oh. my. god.
 
The problem is the idea that it has to be "either/or". Why can't it be both?

Sometimes I find science to be almost as self limiting as religion. Our understanding of our natural world is ever expanding...but much of it is based on theory...nothing wrong with theory... but why can't our theories be God's Laws? Laws that we don't quite get.

IMO, God gave us the intellect to figure this stuff out. God gave us the power to save lives with modern medicine or to destroy lives with horrific tools of war.

Our grace lies in what we do with that power and intellect. Do we use it to create it destroy? Do we use it to serve ourselves personally and financially or to serve others?

Same with religion.... do we use it to serve or control society? Do we use it to forgive and love, or to condemn and despise?

It's not science that's the sin....it's the motivations behind it. It's not religion that's the enemy...it's the motives of the religious.
 
A little hokey, but I agree with the general thyme you're trying to put into words....religion is universal in this world...its our way of dealing with the mysteries
of nature that we can't seem to grasp ...things we see that just elude our understanding.....the complexity of life, the immensity of the universe, etc.
Black holes, millions upon millions of galaxies, the "big bang", dark matter and so much more....
As primitive man used 'religion' to deal with the rise of the sun or setting of the moon, so do we use 'religion' to deal with the question of why are we here, why do we exist,
where did we really come from, how did it all start, etc.....
Some will put their entire faith in the books of antiquity, the Bible, Torah, Koran....others will put their entire faith in writings of Einstein and Hawkings.....others will not fully accept
either........its just a matter of how you choose.....
 
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A little hokey, but I agree with the general thyme you're trying to put into words....religion is universal in this world...its our way of dealing with the mysteries
of nature that we can't seem to grasp ...things we see that just elude our understanding.....the complexity of life, the immensity of the universe, etc.
Black holes, millions upon millions of galaxies, the "big bang", dark matter and so much more....
As primitive man used it to deal with the rise of the sun or setting of the moon, so do we use 'religion' to deal with the question of why are we here, why do we exist,
where did we really come from, how did it all start, etc.....

What if you're wrong? what if at the base of it all, there is a creator? I don't go for religious dogma...I will use scripture to counter others who use it...but I believe in a simpler, more basic form of Christianity... The basic idea that we were put on this earth to learn. We learn from our life experiences...the older I become, the more this is apparent to me.

Of course, I can't prove any of it. But that doesn't matter to me. Life, to me...isn't about proving and attaining... it's about living and more importantly, loving.

There is one bible verse that I will proselytize to you, so forgive me...it's meant with the best of intentions....not as a judgment upon you or anyone else.

Mark 8:36
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

This can be applied in our daily lives...not just on a biblical level.... How many times do you hear of these Type A people living their lives to acquire wealth and power, and having nothing else....no real family life other than the young chicks that want to spend his money....is kids are ignored or sent to boarding schools so that they're not in the way....

No person on their deathbeds ever said "I wish I would have worked more and made more money". It usually is..." I wish I told you I love you more than I did", "I wish I would have spent more time with you", "I wish I would have told you how special you are and how proud I am of you."

Yes...I know...it's hokey. But these are the ties that bind....not money and affluence.

OK...sermon's over... leave some.money at the collection plate....lol
 
steelplate, what are you talking about? The whole type A thing is nonsense, first off. But I don't know what science/reason over religion/faith have to do with an unhealthy obsession with the acquisition of wealth.

Science expands our understanding of the world. Myth, superstition and faith do not.
 
steelplate, what are you talking about? The whole type A thing is nonsense, first off. But I don't know what science/reason over religion/faith have to do with an unhealthy obsession with the acquisition of wealth.

Science expands our understanding of the world. Myth, superstition and faith do not.

The whole "type A" thing is my definition for the go getters of the world... the people who feel nothing is ever enough and if anyone gets in their way, they'll steamroll them. Perhaps the term was a little to broad....sorry about that.

Science does expand our understanding of our world...religion helps decide direction.

Once again....not either/or....both.

There's room for science and God.
 
The documentary follows evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins and theoretical physicist Lawrence Krauss as they travel the world promoting the importance of science and reason in the modern world.
don't you just hate tele-evangelists!.......

“There are people who sincerely seem to think that because something is consoling or comforting that therefore it’s got to be true. That just isn’t logical.”

these guys seem to think that just because something is scarey that it has to be false....that just isn't logical......
 
The whole "type A" thing is my definition for the go getters of the world... the people who feel nothing is ever enough and if anyone gets in their way, they'll steamroll them. Perhaps the term was a little to broad....sorry about that.

Yes, that is how it is commonly used and describes a bunch of unassociated traits. If you are just using it casually then no big deal.

Science does expand our understanding of our world...religion helps decide direction.

Once again....not either/or....both.

There's room for science and God.

We don't need religion to determine the direction. The problem with religion is that it often creates certainty based on ignorance and faith which often leads people to justify inhumane and irrational acts.
 
What if you're wrong? what if at the base of it all, there is a creator? I don't go for religious dogma...I will use scripture to counter others who use it...but I believe in a simpler, more basic form of Christianity... The basic idea that we were put on this earth to learn. We learn from our life experiences...the older I become, the more this is apparent to me.

Of course, I can't prove any of it. But that doesn't matter to me. Life, to me...isn't about proving and attaining... it's about living and more importantly, loving.

There is one bible verse that I will proselytize to you, so forgive me...it's meant with the best of intentions....not as a judgment upon you or anyone else.

Mark 8:36
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

This can be applied in our daily lives...not just on a biblical level.... How many times do you hear of these Type A people living their lives to acquire wealth and power, and having nothing else....no real family life other than the young chicks that want to spend his money....is kids are ignored or sent to boarding schools so that they're not in the way....

No person on their deathbeds ever said "I wish I would have worked more and made more money". It usually is..." I wish I told you I love you more than I did", "I wish I would have spent more time with you", "I wish I would have told you how special you are and how proud I am of you."

Yes...I know...it's hokey. But these are the ties that bind....not money and affluence.

OK...sermon's over... leave some.money at the collection plate....lol

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong....My 'soul' is of no concern to you, its my business.....enjoy your bible, I'll not try to change your religious beliefs as long as
you stay in your own yard....
I'm not interested in your sermons or anyone else's......as of now, Christians and Jews, atheists and agnostics, don't worry me in the least....its the
barbaric Muslims that give me pause and concern for my safety and the safety of my friends and family....no other religions worry me at all....
 
Yes, that is how it is commonly used and describes a bunch of unassociated traits. If you are just using it casually then no big deal.



We don't need religion to determine the direction. The problem with religion is that it often creates certainty based on ignorance and faith which often leads people to justify inhumane and irrational acts.

OK first off, thanks for the gimme on the type A thing. I painted with too broad of a brush there...

OK....onto the second part. As I wrote earlier, that all depends in how religion is embraced. I mean you could point to science and use the destructive tools of man that science has wrought. But that would only be telling part of the story.

Same goes with religion. Man has and still does some real shitty things in the name of God....but that only tells part of the story.

Finally, I'm not a science denier. I embrace science and marvel at how far we've come in the last 150 years.

Like it or not, we are guided by God. You may deny God, and that's fine...but his influence is upon you anyway. It's in generation after generation of our culture...I was reading in Discover magazine that repeating generational experiences going back centuries get encoded into our synapses of our brain...we basically inherit parts of our personality from generations past....so it could be said that our moral compass(which ultimately stems from religion at some point) is kind of hard wired into our DNA.

Interesting stuff...they are actually trying to figure out a way to selectively erase these associations....but this was a couple of months ago and I can't quite remember what they were using to do it.

Anyway....the point I'm trying to make is....religion, much like science...is all in the way you implement it.

Believe me...I know that not everyone feels the same as me about the subject.
 
OK first off, thanks for the gimme on the type A thing. I painted with too broad of a brush there...

OK....onto the second part. As I wrote earlier, that all depends in how religion is embraced. I mean you could point to science and use the destructive tools of man that science has wrought. But that would only be telling part of the story.

Same goes with religion. Man has and still does some real shitty things in the name of God....but that only tells part of the story.

Finally, I'm not a science denier. I embrace science and marvel at how far we've come in the last 150 years.

Like it or not, we are guided by God. You may deny God, and that's fine...but his influence is upon you anyway. It's in generation after generation of our culture...I was reading in Discover magazine that repeating generational experiences going back centuries get encoded into our synapses of our brain...we basically inherit parts of our personality from generations past....so it could be said that our moral compass(which ultimately stems from religion at some point) is kind of hard wired into our DNA.

Interesting stuff...they are actually trying to figure out a way to selectively erase these associations....but this was a couple of months ago and I can't quite remember what they were using to do it.

Anyway....the point I'm trying to make is....religion, much like science...is all in the way you implement it.

Believe me...I know that not everyone feels the same as me about the subject.

We don't need religion to be moral nor is it the necessary source of moral principles.
 
You know! A true believer is a true believer.... whether it's religion, politics, or yes....even science.

Why must the stance of absolutism be the only way to discuss things?
 
You know! A true believer is a true believer.... whether it's religion, politics, or yes....even science.

Why must the stance of absolutism be the only way to discuss things?

????....well, logically if one is an absolutist they will only argue one way, neh?.......
 
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong....My 'soul' is of no concern to you, its my business.....enjoy your bible, I'll not try to change your religious beliefs as long as
you stay in your own yard....
I'm not interested in your sermons or anyone else's......as of now, Christians and Jews, atheists and agnostics, don't worry me in the least....its the
barbaric Muslims that give me pause and concern for my safety and the safety of my friends and family....no other religions worry me at all....

I'm not trying to save your soul. You took my post entirely wrong. I used that one piece if scripture to show how it applies in the real world(not spiritual).

Your beliefs are your own and I wish you nothing but peace. I wasn't trying to "convert" anyone to anything.
 
You know! A true believer is a true believer.... whether it's religion, politics, or yes....even science.

Why must the stance of absolutism be the only way to discuss things?

Nobody is denying your desire to be religious. I am just saying it is not needed. You don't need it and the world does not need it.
 
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