The old people who support War on Ukraine
- Thread starter Cypress
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I think a Kremlin sponsored poll is likely to overestimate support for the war.
I actually do not personally know anyone in Russia who supports this war, but admittedly my relatives and aquatintances tend to be the old-school Muscovite liberal intelligentsia or their offspring.
I actually do not personally know anyone in Russia who supports this war, but admittedly my relatives and aquatintances tend to be the old-school Muscovite liberal intelligentsia or their offspring.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Those who resisted Ukraine's admittance to NATO and the EU are to blame for today's atrocities.
Russia is very much like the United States--they'll warmonger to their heart's content as long as they don't have to take on a near-evenly matched opponent.
If Ukraine had been accepted into NATO, Russia wouldn't have dared to do shit.
They're like America--they'll invade some shithole in the Middle East, but not a true power.
Russia is very much like the United States--they'll warmonger to their heart's content as long as they don't have to take on a near-evenly matched opponent.
If Ukraine had been accepted into NATO, Russia wouldn't have dared to do shit.
They're like America--they'll invade some shithole in the Middle East, but not a true power.
Ukraine isn't qualified to be in NATO
too corrupt
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Ukraine isn't qualified to be in NATO
Possibly--I honestly don't know--but it would probably have averted a terrible war.
I think NATO membership is what prevents Putin from laying claim to the Baltic states, and possibly from asserting hegemony over Poland.
no. NATO expansion got us here.
That along with complicit overthrow of the Ukraine govt at the Maidan
which begat the war in Donbas - which turned Kyiv into a hostile state against Russia
^^ This is Kremlin propaganda, word for word.
Actual news about Russia and Ukraine from independent, non-state controlled Russian journalists and analysts are easily available in Moscow Times, Meduza, and other independent Russian media banned and suppressed by the Kremlin.
it's a summary of events. exactly how it happened I even left a few things out like US monopolarism
( anything that helps Russia is bad -even if it helps the west as well) and the Bucharest Summit of 2008
you wanted Putin out, you boxed him in and forced him into the Chinese orbit -
so quit denying you got what you wanted
How honest do you think the respondents really were?
The consensus seems to be that Russian polling generally have accuracy issues.
But all circumstantial evidence indicates there is a cultural and generational split in Russia, with old people more likely to support the war.
Guno צְבִי
We fight, We win, Am Yisrael Chai
Makes sense, Olders lived in Soviet times and see it as a more secure time economically and as a superpower
From 2017
In Russia, nostalgia for Soviet Union and positive feelings about Stalin
Positive feelings for the USSR generally are greater among older people in Russia and the other former Soviet republics surveyed. For example, while 78% of Russian adults ages 35 and older in the 2015 survey see the breakup as a bad thing, half of Russians under 35 feel this way. Age gaps of this nature exist in all of the former Soviet republics surveyed except Estonia, including in countries where those who have nostalgic views of the USSR are in the minority. For instance, in Ukraine, just 20% of adults under 35 see the Soviet collapse as a bad thing, while 40% of those ages 35 and over do.
Nostalgia for the Soviet past also extends to views of its longest-serving leader, Josef Stalin, with adults in Russia and some other nearby countries expressing more positive views of Stalin than of Mikhail Gorbachev, who presided over the USSR’s final years.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...iet-union-and-positive-feelings-about-stalin/
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Impossible to know for sure. From what I’ve read Putin had long term plans to recreate the Soviet Union 20 years ago.
From 2005:
In his annual state of the nation address on Monday, Russian President Vladimir Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”
“As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057
His reasoning was that suddenly there were Russian citizens displaced in foreign countries in a blink of the eye.
I could see him supporting Russian separatists in those countries and using that as an excuse to invade them , same as in Ukraine. At minimum creating havoc in those countries.
OTOH we promised Russia no NATO expansion if Germany was reunified.
So we broke that promise by a lot.
A deep seated Russian desire for hegemony over Ukraine is centuries old, and Putin has had dreams and desires of reconstituting all the East Slavic lands under the leadership of Moscow for the last 30 years.
That is long before there was any talk of Ukraine supposedly angling for a NATO membership.
The news out of Russia even demonstrates that Putin's goal is unification of the Russian speaking and the East Slavic lands. He openly compares himself to Peter the Great.
That is a vision of hubris based on three centuries of history which Washington, London, Paris, and Brussels have nothing to do with.
so why did he wait 30 years? Ukraine was getting more and more militarized.
Why just annex Crimea> why not go for it all, especially since Javelins and US aid started big time after 2014?
Why send letters warning of redlines?
whatever he "wanted" wasn't enough to make him go after Ukraine until now. why now and not the when Ukraine was easier to take?
If this was his big plan -again why wait until Ukraine was getting NATO weapons?
The reason is clear. Kyiv had become an existential threat due to a pro-west militarized Ukraine
Ukraine changed from a neutral country to a increasingly militarized pro-west regime.
Im familiar wih the speech. It's for internal consumption.
Im sure he felt that way, but acting and feeling are 2 different things
Or as Trump told Putin
"I know you want Ukraine but you are not going to get it". That's another sad chapter as well.
Trump was unable to use ANY diplomacy with Putin due to the Russian hoax.
BartenderElite
Verified User
Only a paranoid lunatic could think that the Ukraine would ever really represent a military threat to Russia.Terrible calculation on Putin's part. Now, Russia will be a pariah for a generation, and its people will likely suffer accordingly. His decision was much more damaging than any remote, minor threat the Ukraine could pose.
Ukraine has NATO weapons.and had many before the war. It's a hostile regime where the east extends into Russia
Maybe you should understand Russian redlines before you croak up"Ukraine cant touch Russia" or whatever excuses you are making for a hostile Ukraine government in Kyiv