The Humanities Are Worth Fighting For

[BidenPresident]

Those who blame presentism or “wokeness” for the increased absence of traditional humanities in classrooms misdiagnose the problem. The idea that students are turned off by cultural studies and would return to a classical education is laughable and easily disproven by existing course enrollment trends.

In my elite university, some students tell me that they never read a book before college, or took an art history class, and certainly never learned any history outside the US context. Even cinema studies, whose teaching was at some point denounced as too great an accommodation to the popular, is a deeply esoteric subject to them.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-humanities-are-worth-fighting-for/

 

[Nordberg]

Rightys see college as an apprenticeship. It is for job preparation. If you want to spend money learning the arts and history, you are a loser. College can change you b making you more worldly. learning English, history and philosophy round you out and make you more aware They teach you how to think and evaluate. Not what to think.

 

[BidenPresident]

Rightys see college as an apprenticeship. It is for job preparation. If you want to spend money learning the arts and history, you are a loser. College can change you b making you more worldly. learning English, history and philosophy round you out and make you more aware They teach you how to think and evaluate. Not what to think.

If survival and practicality is all there is to life, then we would be no different from animals.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

They aren't when the humanities are more about politics than culture and enrichment...

Academic administrators, students, and even professors risk “cancellation” when expressing viewpoints deemed unacceptable by the progressive ideologues ruling our colleges and universities. These allegedly abhorrent views need not be outside the Overton window—most aren’t—to anger the progressive mob. Indeed, radical academics and bureaucrats have shifted the window steadily leftward, such that those who espouse ideas considered uncontroversial even a few years ago are anathematized. (Emphasis mine)
https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/tracking-cancel-culture-in-higher-education

Closed Minds? Is a ‘Cancel Culture’
Stifling Academic Freedom and
Intellectual Debate in Political Science?
file:///C:/Users/tgard/Downloads/RWP20-025_Norris.pdf

Americans and ‘Cancel Culture’: Where Some See Calls for Accountability, Others See Censorship, Punishment
https://www.pewresearch.org/interne...ountability-others-see-censorship-punishment/

Once again, the Left got where they are calling the shots in the humanities and much of what's taught at universities and they turned it all into shit.

 

[BidenPresident]

"Scholars like to debate, often quite bitterly, whether the humanities are too political or not political enough. But the sensible answer to this question is both/and: we cannot pretend that culture is not political, but even if one believes that it is always political, there are aspects of culture that are thinkable in terms that do not immediately imply what we narrowly mean by politics."

 

[BidenPresident]

They aren't when the humanities are more about politics than culture and enrichment...

Academic administrators, students, and even professors risk “cancellation” when expressing viewpoints deemed unacceptable by the progressive ideologues ruling our colleges and universities. These allegedly abhorrent views need not be outside the Overton window—most aren’t—to anger the progressive mob. Indeed, radical academics and bureaucrats have shifted the window steadily leftward, such that those who espouse ideas considered uncontroversial even a few years ago are anathematized. (Emphasis mine)
https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/tracking-cancel-culture-in-higher-education

Closed Minds? Is a ‘Cancel Culture’
Stifling Academic Freedom and
Intellectual Debate in Political Science?
file:///C:/Users/tgard/Downloads/RWP20-025_Norris.pdf

Americans and ‘Cancel Culture’: Where Some See Calls for Accountability, Others See Censorship, Punishment
https://www.pewresearch.org/interne...ountability-others-see-censorship-punishment/

Once again, the Left got where they are calling the shots in the humanities and much of what's taught at universities and they turned it all into shit.

I never read your links. Could you just state what you think is the case?

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Rightys see college as an apprenticeship. It is for job preparation. If you want to spend money learning the arts and history, you are a loser. College can change you b making you more worldly. learning English, history and philosophy round you out and make you more aware They teach you how to think and evaluate. Not what to think.

We don't think that.

It's the person's money and time, they can do what they like.

We believe in freedom of choice.

 

[BidenPresident]

We don't think that.

It's the person's money and time, they can do what they like.

We believe in freedom of choice.

But don't universities have a duty to at least tell students what an educated person should know?

 

[leaningright]

Rightys see college as an apprenticeship. It is for job preparation. If you want to spend money learning the arts and history, you are a loser. College can change you b making you more worldly. learning English, history and philosophy round you out and make you more aware They teach you how to think and evaluate. Not what to think.

Well, as everyone knows, I’m a righty. The bolded above nails how I think of college. If you’re not learning something to help you make a living, why go? Go to trade school instead.

I see nothing wrong with learning art and music. I see nothing wrong with learning philosophy and psychology. I absolutely think one should learn history. Many of these courses are required with most degree plans that I’ve reviewed.

Shoot, I even took a human sexuality class in the process of getting my mathematics teaching degree. I disagreed with most of it but got my “A” and moved on.

But the idea of going to college just to learn stuff to make one a more rounded person without a view to how what I’m learning is going to help me survive in this world is just dumb. The process of survival for people is to develop a skill or know stuff that one can use to make a living.

I guess that’s how someone could get a degree (or degrees) and be saddled with college debt well into their 50’s. That’s not being very smart, IMO.

 

[BidenPresident]

But the idea of going to college just to learn stuff to make one a more rounded person without a view to how what I’m learning is going to help me survive in this world is just dumb.

Agree. No one on this thread is arguing that. Neither the article I posted nor myself.

 

[BidenPresident]

Well, as everyone knows, I’m a righty. The bolded above nails how I think of college. If you’re not learning something to help you make a living, why go? Go to trade school instead.

I see nothing wrong with learning art and music. I see nothing wrong with learning philosophy and psychology. I absolutely think one should learn history. Many of these courses are required with most degree plans that I’ve reviewed.

Shoot, I even took a human sexuality class in the process of getting my mathematics teaching degree. I disagreed with most of it but got my “A” and moved on.

But the idea of going to college just to learn stuff to make one a more rounded person without a view to how what I’m learning is going to help me survive in this world is just dumb. The process of survival for people is to develop a skill or know stuff that one can use to make a living.

I guess that’s how someone could get a degree (or degrees) and be saddled with college debt well into their 50’s. That’s not being very smart, IMO.

Largest student loan debt from medicine, law, and business.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...re-student-loans-pay-off-and-where-they-dont/

 

[Cypress]

Rightwing talk radio convinced MAGA morons that there are actually things like basket weaving majors.

It's only people who never went to college who believe there is this universe of useless degrees out there.

Every history major I know ended up with a white collar professional career.

Harrison Ford famously was a philosophy major.

Liberal arts grads may not necessarily get a job directly related to their degree. But attaining the bachelor's degree in humanities teaches one self discipline, analytical and research skills, writing and communication skills, language and social networking skills

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Well, as everyone knows, I’m a righty. The bolded above nails how I think of college. If you’re not learning something to help you make a living, why go? Go to trade school instead.

I see nothing wrong with learning art and music. I see nothing wrong with learning philosophy and psychology. I absolutely think one should learn history. Many of these courses are required with most degree plans that I’ve reviewed.

Shoot, I even took a human sexuality class in the process of getting my mathematics teaching degree. I disagreed with most of it but got my “A” and moved on.

But the idea of going to college just to learn stuff to make one a more rounded person without a view to how what I’m learning is going to help me survive in this world is just dumb. The process of survival for people is to develop a skill or know stuff that one can use to make a living.

I guess that’s how someone could get a degree (or degrees) and be saddled with college debt well into their 50’s. That’s not being very smart, IMO.

Community College is a great place to start your 2ndary education. Most certainly, if you only intend to go to school part-time, because you already have a job in the career field of your choice. When I started attending college, I was already well on my way in my career field of choice. I focused on taking the courses that could get me into the positions I wanted to be in in that career, through accreditation!

So, I took mostly Data Processing courses as my electives, while also focused on trying to get through the required academic course work at the same time.

This was of course, before all of the Online Colleges were available.

But, I am like you, I wanted to concentrate on the courses that would put me on the fast track for my career, and couldn't afford to spend my time on the liberal arts and humanity stuff. I pretty much learned what I could about that stuff through reading books and watching documentaries on TV etc.

Was I a capable candidate for the $10,000 pyramid or Jeopardy TV Game Shows? NO! But still not too bad as an armchair home player.

But, I did become an expert in my own career field and reached the levels of success in that field that provided me and my family a nice income and comfortable suburban lifestyle for a lifetime.

 

[leaningright]

Largest student loan debt from medicine, law, and business.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...re-student-loans-pay-off-and-where-they-dont/

You know, I don’t doubt this for a second. I didn’t deep read the article but I scanned it and do not doubt it’s validity. Here’s the problem I have with college debt forgiveness…and I’m sorry about the temporary thread derailment.

If someone completes one of the degrees above then secures a career as a doctor, lawyer or a job somewhere in the business hierarchy then he ought to be able to pay the college debt back. If he stays in good health and does not it smacks of irresponsibility, IMO.

If he takes out loans and does not complete his degree say, to where he can become a doctor or lawyer or whatever, he is still obligated to pay back those loans. Whether he completes a degree in a lesser field and works for less money going forward or not.

When I got my Bachelor’s degree in 1988 at the age of 21 (I turned 22 just a few days later) I was in debt $28,000. I took a teaching job that paid $18,000 per year and received nothing but a minor step increase in that salary for the next 5 years. I bought a Bronco, a used bass boat and a house (more debt) by 1992 and had my college debt paid in full by 1996. I had to sacrifice some things but I made it a priority…because I was the one who was responsible. My health remained good and I was able to continue working (people whose health fails should be able to get help, IMO … and that’s a different thread) and I was determined to fulfill my obligation.

My son is about to start his Junior year at OU. His tuition and fees have been reasonable for that college, IMO. Our biggest expense has been housing. He has a part time math tutoring gig that helps us help him with that rent. His room mates are from the same sort of middle class families that he is from. College debt and how to avoid/minimize it is a constant conversation that they have with one another. I have high hopes for all of them.

 

[Truth Detector]

Those who blame presentism or “wokeness” for the increased absence of traditional humanities in classrooms misdiagnose the problem. The idea that students are turned off by cultural studies and would return to a classical education is laughable and easily disproven by existing course enrollment trends.

In my elite university, some students tell me that they never read a book before college, or took an art history class, and certainly never learned any history outside the US context. Even cinema studies, whose teaching was at some point denounced as too great an accommodation to the popular, is a deeply esoteric subject to them.

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-humanities-are-worth-fighting-for/

Morons think stupidity equals humanity. Nothing screams stupid louder than thinking men can be women and vice versa. The Racial Equity canard is another sign of mental retardation.

It leads to mediocrity and societal decline. The Democratic Party is the finest example of failure.

 

[Truth Detector]

They aren't when the humanities are more about politics than culture and enrichment...

Academic administrators, students, and even professors risk “cancellation” when expressing viewpoints deemed unacceptable by the progressive ideologues ruling our colleges and universities. These allegedly abhorrent views need not be outside the Overton window—most aren’t—to anger the progressive mob. Indeed, radical academics and bureaucrats have shifted the window steadily leftward, such that those who espouse ideas considered uncontroversial even a few years ago are anathematized. (Emphasis mine)
https://www.nas.org/blogs/article/tracking-cancel-culture-in-higher-education

Closed Minds? Is a ‘Cancel Culture’
Stifling Academic Freedom and
Intellectual Debate in Political Science?
file:///C:/Users/tgard/Downloads/RWP20-025_Norris.pdf

Americans and ‘Cancel Culture’: Where Some See Calls for Accountability, Others See Censorship, Punishment
https://www.pewresearch.org/interne...ountability-others-see-censorship-punishment/

Once again, the Left got where they are calling the shots in the humanities and much of what's taught at universities and they turned it all into shit.

 

[BidenPresident]

Morons think stupidity equals humanity. Nothing screams stupid louder than thinking men can be women and vice versa. The Racial Equity canard is another sign of mental retardation.

It leads to mediocrity and societal decline. The Democratic Party is the finest example of failure.

You must have flunked out of high school.

 

[Truth Detector]

"Scholars like to debate, often quite bitterly, whether the humanities are too political or not political enough. But the sensible answer to this question is both/and: we cannot pretend that culture is not political, but even if one believes that it is always political, there are aspects of culture that are thinkable in terms that do not immediately imply what we narrowly mean by politics."

There is no debate in colleges anymore. You either commit to the woke progressive agenda or get kicked out or canceled.

 

[Truth Detector]

I never read your links.

Of course you don't. It empowers you to remain ignorant and stupid.

 

[BidenPresident]

There is no debate in colleges anymore. You either commit to the woke progressive agenda or get kicked out or canceled.

You never stepped foot on a college campus. Going to a football game does not count.