Russian "quagmire in Syria"

dukkha

Verified User
Far from getting himself into a quagmire in Syria that President Obama had predicted in October 2015, Putin has been able to carry out a relatively cheap campaign and is now on his way to extricating himself from the conflict while ensuring Russia’s presence and influence at the same time. He boosted Russia's arms exports by using Syria as a testing ground for Russian weaponry. Now that the situation is stabilizing in certain key regions of the country, Russian energy companies are looking to rebuild Syria’s energy infrastructure.

September 30 will mark the two year anniversary of Moscow’s intervention in Syria that saved Syrian President Bashar al-Assad from an eminent collapse. Assad is largely responsible for one of the worst humanitarian tragedies since World War II. Today, in no small part thanks to Russian President Vladimir Putin, he has emerged in the strongest position since massive uprisings swept the country in March 2011.

Iran and its proxy Hezbollah have done much to prop up Assad in the last six years. In late spring of 2013, a Hezbollah surge kept him from falling. But in September 2015 it was Russian airpower that saved Assad from losing ground.

Putin had stood by Assad from the very beginning and protected him in multiple ways. He armed him, protected him on the U.N. Security Council, and sustained Syria’s military and economy. But the intervention was a game changer that signaled Russia’s escalation in Syria.

Today, on balance, Putin achieved virtually everything he wanted in Syria. He kept Assad in power. He entrenched Russia’s military presence in Syria for at least the next 49 years—Russia’s largest military presence outside the former Soviet Union at that. Thus, Putin reduced US ability to maneuver militarily in the region and assured Russia’s influence in one of the most strategically-important countries in the Middle East.

Putin’s support for Assad’s ethnic cleansing campaign exacerbated massive and destabilizing refugee flows into Europe. As long as Assad or someone like him remains in power, the majority of refugees will not return home. Assad’s traditional foes, such as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan have come to accept Moscow’s view on Assad, and even Saudi Arabia may be shifting its position in Moscow’s favor.

Most importantly for Putin, he can now showcase cooperation with the West —on his terms. He created a perception of Russia as a great power broker and obtained international recognition for his latest ceasefire initiative in southwest Syria that led to establishment of de-escalation zones after Putin met with Trump in July of this year. Russia, Iran, and Turkey serve as ceasefire guarantors. Putin always resisted Western-protected safe zones in Syria, but a Russia-led ceasefire allows him to preserve his interests in the country.

De-escalation zones have a weaker protective framework than Western-backed zones would have had. Moscow deployed its military police to monitor the ceasefire but it’s unclear how this arrangement will be enforced. The agreement barely acknowledges Iran’s role in Syria. Meanwhile, two key US allies in the region, Israel and Jordan, now have to deal with Russia on vital US national security issues. With Russia as a partner, the US now also has to share the moral burden of Russian airstrikes that kill civilians.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annabo...utin-checkmated-the-us-in-syria/#323dbd45767e
 
another example of what happens when you attempt to de-legitimize Putin's legitimate interests,
and refuse to manage the US/Russian relationship..

You might not be playing the game,but Putin still is.
 
another example of what happens when you attempt to de-legitimize Putin's legitimate interests,
and refuse to manage the US/Russian relationship..

You might not be playing the game,but Putin still is.

Glad things are working out for your hero, thanks for the update.
 
Syria already belonged to Russia, all they did was secure that which was already theirs, President's Obama's comments were in reference to the US involvement, and he was correct, it was basically a no win situation for the US
 
Syria already belonged to Russia, all they did was secure that which was already theirs, President's Obama's comments were in reference to the US involvement, and he was correct, it was basically a no win situation for the US
yet Obama funded and armed the Syrian rebels.
yet Obama gave Putin a lot of static about "Russian quagmire"
yet the USA is now effectively shut out of any peace talks - or relegated to an observers's role
 
yet Obama funded and armed the Syrian rebels.
yet Obama gave Putin a lot of static about "Russian quagmire"
yet the USA is now effectively shut out of any peace talks - or relegated to an observers's role

A small percentage of Syrian rebels, remember, they couldn't find a group they could trust, and when assembling their own it was small and ineffective

Don't recall Obama warning Russia of their quagmire, Russia was already there in their previous investment in Syria, they needed the ME access Syria provides

And the way it is ending, what influence would the US have ever had with the results? What is "resolved" isn't going to end the turmoil, especially after the Kurds recent push for independence which will effect the entire region

Bottom line, Obama was right and wrong in his ME strategdy, he was correct that being patience would eventually defeat ISIS, especially in Iraq, and without major US causalities, but at the same time, we are still in the quagmire and will be for decades to come
 
A small percentage of Syrian rebels, remember, they couldn't find a group they could trust, and when assembling their own it was small and ineffective

Don't recall Obama warning Russia of their quagmire, Russia was already there in their previous investment in Syria, they needed the ME access Syria provides

And the way it is ending, what influence would the US have ever had with the results? What is "resolved" isn't going to end the turmoil, especially after the Kurds recent push for independence which will effect the entire region

Bottom line, Obama was right and wrong in his ME strategdy, he was correct that being patience would eventually defeat ISIS, especially in Iraq, and without major US causalities, but at the same time, we are still in the quagmire and will be for decades to come

Obama warns Russia's Putin of 'quagmire' in Syria
the U.S. president warned that Russia and Iran, Assad’s main backer in the Muslim world, have isolated the majority of Syrians and angered their Sunni Muslim neighbours.

“An attempt by Russia and Iran to prop up Assad and try to pacify the population is just going to get them stuck in a quagmire and it won’t work,” Obama said.

Obama on Friday offered to work with Russia to bring peace to Syria, but he took several digs at Putin, with whom he has a frosty relationship. A meeting between the two at the United Nations this week seems to have done little to produce a thaw.

“Mr. Putin had to go into Syria not out of strength, but out of weakness because his client Mr. Assad was crumbling and it was insufficient for him to send arms and money,” Obama said.
http://in.reuters.com/article/uk-mi...in-of-quagmire-in-syria-idINKCN0RW0FC20151003

A small percentage of Syrian rebels, remember, they couldn't find a group they could trust, and when assembling their own it was small and ineffective
Obama looked to the FSA, but the FSA couldn't hold their weapons on the battlefield -or flew across the border to Turkey. General Idris wasn't the only one to do so.
It's how al-Nusra got US TOW weapons.

I'm speaking of shaping Syria with peace talks..
Dennis Kucinich went to Syria ( as did Tulsi Gabbard) and met and interviewed Assad.
Both warned Obama he wasn't a "terrorist" only as Obama liked to portray him -
he was the best hope for a unified Syria to remain that way.

I think Kurdish independence is still a way off/ Baghdad doesn't want it, nor Erdogan.
it depends (less so) if we support them too. we should of course.
I think Syria is going to be a fractured,failed state if the war ever stops.
 
Obama warns Russia's Putin of 'quagmire' in Syria
the U.S. president warned that Russia and Iran, Assad’s main backer in the Muslim world, have isolated the majority of Syrians and angered their Sunni Muslim neighbours.

“An attempt by Russia and Iran to prop up Assad and try to pacify the population is just going to get them stuck in a quagmire and it won’t work,” Obama said.

Obama on Friday offered to work with Russia to bring peace to Syria, but he took several digs at Putin, with whom he has a frosty relationship. A meeting between the two at the United Nations this week seems to have done little to produce a thaw.

“Mr. Putin had to go into Syria not out of strength, but out of weakness because his client Mr. Assad was crumbling and it was insufficient for him to send arms and money,” Obama said.
http://in.reuters.com/article/uk-mi...in-of-quagmire-in-syria-idINKCN0RW0FC20151003

Obama looked to the FSA, but the FSA couldn't hold their weapons on the battlefield -or flew across the border to Turkey. General Idris wasn't the only one to do so.
It's how al-Nusra got US TOW weapons.

I'm speaking of shaping Syria with peace talks..
Dennis Kucinich went to Syria ( as did Tulsi Gabbard) and met and interviewed Assad.
Both warned Obama he wasn't a "terrorist" only as Obama liked to portray him -
he was the best hope for a unified Syria to remain that way.

I think Kurdish independence is still a way off/ Baghdad doesn't want it, nor Erdogan.
it depends (less so) if we support them too. we should of course.
I think Syria is going to be a fractured,failed state if the war ever stops.

So it was a small number of actual rebels who received US weapons, if I remember correctly, members in Congress were screaming because they thought the US should be arming more of the elements fighting Assad

And I don't think anyone ever saw Assad as the best solution, if they had, what as the purpose in getting involved in the first place?

Kurds voted yesterday to leave Iraq, ninety percent voted independence, and the thought of a Kurdish state effects Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria, it is going happen at some point, and will be an addition to the quagmire that even Russia will get caught up in
 
So it was a small number of actual rebels who received US weapons, if I remember correctly, members in Congress were screaming because they thought the US should be arming more of the elements fighting Assad
it was a smallish number,but as I stated they got advanced weapons -
including the TOW missiles ( anti-tank) to go up against Assad. I don't even bother listening to Congress-
im not sure what they were bleating about

And I don't think anyone ever saw Assad as the best solution, if they had, what as the purpose in getting involved in the first place?
you should ask Obama that.
Kucinich and Gabbards waned him not to back anti-Assad forces

Kurds voted yesterday to leave Iraq, ninety percent voted independence, and the thought of a Kurdish state effects Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria, it is going happen at some point, and will be an addition to the quagmire that even Russia will get caught up in
Russia isn't going to worry about the Kurds one way or the other.
It controls Damascus w/ Assad, and probably Homs and Aleppo..
the rest of Syria isn't that important to Russia except Tartus, and that's on the west coast too.
 
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