Reminder - today is the anniversary of JFK being assassinated

[Craig234]

Whether Oswald acted alone or the CIA 'protected the country', it's a good idea to remember one of our greatest presidents at moving the country and the world forward in the cold war.

To recognize the anniversary, one good option is to watch President Kennedy's speech calling for a complete rethinking of the American view toward the Soviets and the cold war, given at the height of the cold war months after the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's one of the best speeches by a president in history, largely written by his speechwriter and adviser Ted Sorensen.

JFK's presidency was a time when the most wealthy were recognized as a force needing to be challenged for the sake of the people. America has rarely or never had a better reputation in the world.

https://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-Viewer/BWC7I4C9QUmLG9J6I8oy8w.aspx

 

[excommunicated]

“And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.” Some of the best words ever spoken by Kennedy, and the least understood by liberals.

 

[anatta]

it's still a day i get melancholy..It's day I'll never forget -moments of horror that culminated
when Oswald was shot a couple days later in police custody . I can still see it all in my memory.


JFK was a cold warrior. Yet he understood the importance of accommodating the USSR.
Something we should think about today instead of all the Russiaphobia infecting our politics/diplomacy

 

[cancel2 2022]

Good riddance, although LBJ was no better.

If this man Valentin Savitsky had fucked up, you wouldn't even be here! Your trolling career would have been pushing up the daisies.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com...-everyone-you-know-owe-your-life-to-this-man/

 

[Craig234]

“And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country.” Some of the best words ever spoken by Kennedy, and the least understood by liberals.

Republicans LOVE to try to steal Kennedy for their own purposes - but you do understand that Kennedy was at odds with Republicans, right? He was in direct war with Reagan over Medicare, for example.

 

[cancel2 2022]

JFK was scum.

Regardless of whether that was true or not, the Cuban Missile Crisis was within a hair's breadth of turning nuclear. I know this very well, you are far too young to understand how palpable was the fear of total nuclear annihilation.

 

[excommunicated]

Republicans LOVE to try to steal Kennedy for their own purposes - but you do understand that Kennedy was at odds with Republicans, right? He was in direct war with Reagan over Medicare, for example.

I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. To belong to either party shows a weak mind. Just pointing out a fact that one of the most true and inspiring things JFK ever said has gone completely over the head of liberals.

 

[Craig234]

it's still a day i get melancholy..It's day I'll never forget -moments of horror that culminated
when Oswald was shot a couple days later in police custody . I can still see it all in my memory.


JFK was a cold warrior. Yet he understood the importance of accommodating the USSR.
Something we should think about today instead of all the Russiaphobia infecting our politics/diplomacy

Kennedy was a 'warrior for peace', who understood victory meant not using violence, unlike too many politicians in both parties today but especially Republicans.

"Russiaphobia" is not an error today - it's opposing the anti-democracy policies of Putin, his kleptocracy, his aggression.

It's true the US *has* been the aggressor in a lot of indefensible ways with the Soviets - we sent 15,000 Marines to fight against their revolution under President Wilson, we immediately treated them as an enemy after WWII, we broke our commitment not to expand NATO toward their border and expanded it right to their border, and more. But Putin doesn't just have some valid issues, he has invalid ones as well and we're right to oppose much about him.

 

[Craig234]

I am not a Republican nor a Democrat. To belong to either party shows a weak mind. Just pointing out a fact that one of the most true and inspiring things JFK ever said has gone completely over the head of liberals.

Replace Republican with right-winger. The point you seem to be missing is that while Kennedy inspired patriotism and helping the country, he also supported the country doing more for its people. His first act was more food for the poor in West Virginia.

 

[excommunicated]

Replace Republican with right-winger. The point you seem to be missing is that while Kennedy inspired patriotism and helping the country, he also supported the country doing more for its people. His first act was more food for the poor in West Virginia.

Yes. By people doing more for their country.

 

[cancel2 2022]

JFK was the philandering son of a bootlegging ward heeler who's suspected of stealing the election for his son by colluding with Richard Daley. He had two philandering brothers, one of whom drowned a young woman. His family is notorious.

He did nothing to diminish the threat of nuclear war, in fact, as we now know, he was privy to an attempt to pull off a stunt that would have resembled the pretext for Hitlers invasion of Poland.

Then there's the Bay of Pigs, and his role in embroiling the USA in Vietnam.

He was scum. I'm glad he's dead.

You only know stuff via Google, I lived it! Ask your mummy about it!!

 

[Airstrip One]

You only know stuff via Google, I lived it! Ask your mummy about it!!

So, you lived through the bomber gap and missile gap canards?

 

[Craig234]

Yes. By people doing more for their country.

What are you having trouble with? You attack liberals. Liberals: FOR Medicare, the country doing for the people. Reagan/Republicans/right-wing: AGAINST Medicare.

 

[cancel2 2022]

So, you lived through the bomber gap and missile gap canards?

Yes guess so, but I wasn't really old enough to know too much about that. However I was very aware of Cuban Missile Crisis, I remember thinking how unfair it was that I might die before even having sex or gorping a girl.

 

[Airstrip One]

Yes guess so, but I wasn't really old enough to know too much about that. However I was very aware of Cuban Missile Crisis, I remember thinking how unfair it was that I might die before even having sex or gorping a girl.

Yeah, an incompetent US president's handling of an invasion of Cuba almost ruined everything.

 

[anatta]

Kennedy was a 'warrior for peace', who understood victory meant not using violence, unlike too many politicians in both parties today but especially Republicans.

"Russiaphobia" is not an error today - it's opposing the anti-democracy policies of Putin, his kleptocracy, his aggression.

It's true the US *has* been the aggressor in a lot of indefensible ways with the Soviets - we sent 15,000 Marines to fight against their revolution under President Wilson, we immediately treated them as an enemy after WWII, we broke our commitment not to expand NATO toward their border and expanded it right to their border, and more. But Putin doesn't just have some valid issues, he has invalid ones as well and we're right to oppose much about him.

not a bad post. I can agree with most of this. Where i disagree is the fact we don't have any diplomatic relations left with Russia//I mean Trump and Putin exchanging a few words is not diplomacy.
We always kept talks going on witt the USSR

This:

it's opposing the anti-democracy policies of Putin, his kleptocracy, his aggression.

first off Russia democracy is to be determined by the Russians, and not the west thru sanctions.
That's basic realpolitik

If you heard trumps remarks in Da Nang -he laid out in brief why cooperation with Russia over Syria, North Korea, and checking Putin's advances in the middle east are necessary but NOT HAPPENING because of Russiaphobia and Congressional sanctions .

We have no policy except more NATO expansion. I give you credit for seeing that aspect -many here do not.
PS. look at my sig

 

[Craig234]

not a bad post. I can agree with most of this. Where i disagree is the fact we don't have any diplomatic relations left with Russia//I mean Trump and Putin exchanging a few words is not diplomacy.
We always kept talks going on witt the USSR

This: first off Russia democracy is to be determined by the Russians, and not the west thru sanctions.
That's basic realpolitik

If you heard trumps remarks in Da Nang -he laid out in brief why cooperation with Russia over Syria, North Korea, and checking Putin's advances in the middle east are necessary but NOT HAPPENING because of Russiaphobia and Congressional sanctions .

We have no policy except more NATO expansion. I give you credit for seeing that aspect -many here do not.
PS. look at my sig

I'm not sure what you're referring to saying we have no diplomatic relations with Russia - we do and they go well beyond a few words between leaders. They are fairly hostile for a variety of reasons - on the Russian side because of the history we agreed on and Putin's apparent great resentment of that history, and on our side for everything from competitive interests to promotion of democracy (ya, when it suits us) to Crimea and Ukraine (our hands aren't clean) to election interference, organized crime and more.

Yes, trump tries to say that all kinds of kumbaya with Russia is prevented by those darned nasty investigations into his potential crime and wrongs with Russia, and Russia's wrongs. Those should not be viewed as credible. They're an attempt to attack his attackers and protect his interests, using things like foreign policy as cover - he's good at that. When he's caught with his hands in the cookie jar he rushes to do something like hold a pro-veteran rally as cover.

I agree with you that Russian democracy should be done by Russians, not by sanctions. But Russian actions and policies are deserving of sanctions. Yes, we have to watch out for sanctions being abused (see Clinton and Iraq in the late 1990's, where an estimated 500,000 Iraqi children were killed by ineffective sanctions), and yes, some could make a case for sanctions against the US on some things (e.g., climate change?) - but nonetheless, I think the sanctions are justified.

You say we have no policy except NATO expansion.

trump has no policy on almost anything, except the need to lie constantly and support the plutocracy agenda. More generally, you have a point, that the US has just sort of had 'power grab inertia' keep us pursuing more power, e.g., NATO expansion.

It's the more complex topic of the non-empire world's greatest empire in history we've become. A lot could be discussed on that but my point here was that there is some justification for some hostility to Russia that 'Russiaphobia' doesn't describe.

 

[cancel2 2022]

If only.

Ask Aloyious, he knows all about gorping. Rana, on the other hand, preferred gawping.

 

[dukkha]

I'm not sure what you're referring to saying we have no diplomatic relations with Russia - we do and they go well beyond a few words between leaders. They are fairly hostile for a variety of reasons - on the Russian side because of the history we agreed on and Putin's apparent great resentment of that history, and on our side for everything from competitive interests to promotion of democracy (ya, when it suits us) to Crimea and Ukraine (our hands aren't clean) to election interference, organized crime and more.

Yes, trump tries to say that all kinds of kumbaya with Russia is prevented by those darned nasty investigations into his potential crime and wrongs with Russia, and Russia's wrongs. Those should not be viewed as credible. They're an attempt to attack his attackers and protect his interests, using things like foreign policy as cover - he's good at that. When he's caught with his hands in the cookie jar he rushes to do something like hold a pro-veteran rally as cover.

I agree with you that Russian democracy should be done by Russians, not by sanctions. But Russian actions and policies are deserving of sanctions. Yes, we have to watch out for sanctions being abused (see Clinton and Iraq in the late 1990's, where an estimated 500,000 Iraqi children were killed by ineffective sanctions), and yes, some could make a case for sanctions against the US on some things (e.g., climate change?) - but nonetheless, I think the sanctions are justified.

You say we have no policy except NATO expansion.

trump has no policy on almost anything, except the need to lie constantly and support the plutocracy agenda. More generally, you have a point, that the US has just sort of had 'power grab inertia' keep us pursuing more power, e.g., NATO expansion.

It's the more complex topic of the non-empire world's greatest empire in history we've become. A lot could be discussed on that but my point here was that there is some justification for some hostility to Russia that 'Russiaphobia' doesn't describe.

we closed all but a trickle of VISAs applications in Moscow. we don't really have any low level talks going on.
Relations are in the Deep Freeze -colder then Siberia.

Ah you went to "Trump is stupid" so there really isn't much point in discussing US/Russian relations.
Pity.
I thought you had more to say.

 

[Craig234]

we closed all but a trickle of VISAs applications in Moscow. we don't really have any low level talks going on.
Relations are in the Deep Freeze -colder then Siberia.

Ah you went to "Trump is stupid" so there really isn't much point in discussing US/Russian relations.
Pity.
I thought you had more to say.

Sorry you are so ideologically hypnotized about this that you dismiss the truth - it's like telling a Scientologist how bad their group is, and having them dismiss it. I don't mean that to insult. We did agree on a good amount it sounded like.

FYI, that's not what I said about trump.

But there are a lot of bad words I WILL use.

I said his lack of policy is huge; he's a sociopath narcissist, utterly ignorant and incompetent - but he has skills as a con man, and as insulting as that sounds, those can be legitimate skills for a president in better hands.