Public Problems and Private Prisons

Adam Weinberg

Goldwater Republican
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/23/pennsylvania.corrupt.judges/index.html

So, there is a such thing as a prison-industrial complex.

It seems to me that any savings to the taxpayer that can be promoted by private prisons--or competition that can promote system-wide savings--can also be provided by sufficiently enforcing strict regulation and inspection of public prisons.

Not to depart for too long from the subject at hand, a critic may ask why I would consider this state-only approach sufficient for prisons, but not the cure-all in the case of schools.

The short answer is that we want to incentivize the expansion of educational opportunities in the country, and the only way to do that for the largest number of people is to allow outside-the-box innovation and competition that provides for diverse student needs, whether that's charter schools, vouchers, etc.

We don't, however, want to expand or incentivize imprisonment in the United States! We want to offer preventative measures that keep people from going down that path and also tempering the state from imprisoning unnecessarily.

I am not enough of a political scientist to know the proper terminology, but there's something about an expanding system of prisons in a country that suggests its public priorities are backward.

Prisons and the justice system are a basic government fixture that we pay for because they are designed to provide a benefit to our general society. They are a regulator on misuses of power--just as elections assist in a transition of power--and their purpose should remain as such. Prison population may ebb and flow with times, certainly. The economic hardships are unfortunately turning many to both violent and economic offenses. But the private element in either of these issues can concentrate the social benefit to a few hands, and invest greater powers in government than was intended.

We expect as citizens in a free society that people who are incarcerated are held for the purposes of protecting the public safety, enforcing laws justly, and where applicable for lesser offenses, to rehabilitate offenders to become productive citizens.

In this case, "I've chucked away mah free market principles" to save my free society principles. I don't think we should be going down a road that invites special interests to line the pockets of political leaders who create or enforce laws for the purpose of creating more laws and more "criminals" to put behind bars.

This is not just about the war on drugs, though that is a significant part of this issue, but about any class of criminals that could potentially arise if these interests hold sway in our country. Recent experience shows us that what is a very normal thing today could become a crime tomorrow given some unpredictable emergencies in the country. Not to casually throw around the F-word, but does it not surely promote Fascism to allow a small but powerful group of corporations to profit from the rise of authoritarian power?

The subject of schools is more relevant to this discussion than I previously let on, because we are at the moment a nation with far too many young people dropping out of school and finding their way into the prison system at either the juvenile or adult level.

We need to create incentives for the building of innovative schools and the appropriate maintenance of prisons- not building prisons and allowing the school system to stagnate under one-size-fits all. Worse yet, at this time we seem to be a country that is directed toward building prisons and closing schools despite the true needs of the nation being in the opposite.

How we prosper as a country in the future will depend on if we can reverse these priorities. The prisons and the governments which administrate them are supposed to serve the purposes of society, but all too often today they seem to serve the purposes of the governments, the political class, and to the detriment of the society which must cope with the generational effects of expansive imprisonment.
 
Companies colluding with states is not free market.
Though it could be true to say that private prisons would have a financial incentive to have more prisoners, it is only government that has the power to grant that desire.
Reducing the number of things and reducing the number of taxes and regulations would reduce the supply of prisoners far more than anything else.

Private prisons not only provide savings but with the right state oversight (ie: electing people who care about how much is being spent on prisons and feel the pinch of budget constraints and the need to cut rather than just increasing taxes), then contracts can be granted to those who show the best results in lowering recidivism rates.

As a side, I've never bought the argument that worsening economic times has to result in more crime, I think some are sympathetic to that and create a climate where prisoners think that they have a better chance of portraying themselves as the victims in those times. Yet looking at India, you have absolute rank poverty, far worse than anything in America, yet it is very safe, so it possible and probable if we have the right attitude that it is wrong to steal no matter the circumstances.
 
Private prisons incentivize the continuance of inane laws that put people in prison for pursuing happiness.
 
???
After reading the abuses I want to abolish more stupid laws, now more than ever.
But they are paying your coin operated government to put what you do not wish into effect. They have more coin than you, therefore our slot-machines we elect pay more attention to their wishes than to yours.
 
No, but it is economics. Some incentives and disincentives have to be entrusted to government.

One could make the same argument about healthcare, food, drugs, roads - this argument that government should do it all because some evil profit seeking company is only ever going to care about continued dependence on it's products or services rather than a real solution.

If you thought a private doctor was just trying to make more money off you by continuing having you come to his office for some treatments, would you not start to seek a 2nd (competitive) opinion or outright seek another doctor?
Likewise, if there is proof or suspicion of some company trying to increase amount of prisoners then there are other companies that can take their place.
That competitive pressure is what keeps them honest.

This is a bad (and neverending) road to head down. What have governmnet prisons ever done but give prisoners stupid things like free cable and weight equipment where you pay to bulk thems up so they are nice and pumped when they get out?
 
But they are paying your coin operated government to put what you do not wish into effect. They have more coin than you, therefore our slot-machines we elect pay more attention to their wishes than to yours.

Solution: Any company that receives our money in taxes is forbidden from lobbying.
 
Solution: Any company that receives our money in taxes is forbidden from lobbying.
Again, "Congress shall make NO LAW"...

That means your law would be unconstitutional. The people who own the corporations have every right to lobby in their own interest.

Your "simple" solutions trend towards the authoritarian and ignore the precepts the nation was built on. Mine, does neither and disincentivizes idiotic laws that put people in prison for being as people act. One of the first steps toward saving billions would be to return prisons to state-controlled entities so that lobbying to decrease government power over the pursuit of happiness could have a modicum of a chance to pass muster.

If you want to save money, the sane thing to do is to get profit out of the prison system.
 
Again, "Congress shall make NO LAW"...

That means your law would be unconstitutional. The people who own the corporations have every right to lobby in their own interest.

Your "simple" solutions trend towards the authoritarian and ignore the precepts the nation was built on. Mine, does neither and disincentivizes idiotic laws that put people in prison for being as people act.
Since when is begging for government dough a first amendment right?
This is not a new idea, as one very easy to find example, here is a Democrat banning lobbying from companies receiving government dough:
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) said Monday she will propose a bill requiring that financial institutions participating in the Treasury's $700 billion financial-markets rescue plan be banned from lobbying with that money."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1224...googlenews_wsj

If they want the money, no lobbying is a condition to getting it. No one is forcing them to take it.
 
Since when is begging for government dough a first amendment right?
This is not a new idea, as one very easy to find example, here is a Democrat banning lobbying from companies receiving government dough:
"Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D., Calif.) said Monday she will propose a bill requiring that financial institutions participating in the Treasury's $700 billion financial-markets rescue plan be banned from lobbying with that money."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1224...googlenews_wsj

If they want the money, no lobbying is a condition to getting it. No one is forcing them to take it.
One more time for the uber-slow.

Dano. The people who own those corporations would have no laws against their right to lobby in their own interest. Just because the "company" cannot doesn't make it so the people who own it cannot create their own 501c(3) non-profit to lobby for them using their personal cash they wish to increase.

Does it sink in this time? Does it finally hit home?

You help continue the most inane and worthless laws ever by incentivizing profit in the imprisonment of citizens. I believe that industrializing prisons has got to be the stupidest decision that we have made in the name of "savings" ever. It creates a whole wealth of side-effects that are unpleasant and almost undetectable to the normal citizen.
 
One could make the same argument about healthcare, food, drugs, roads -

This is not solely about profit and I thought I explained why this instance is different from other industries.

Aside from the fact that this is an argument for keeping the private sector out of an industry, it is also an argument for keeping the state from colluding with private industry. In a sense, it is an anti-state argument in the long run, because the mechanics under which a prison-industrial complex operates are very much the same as special interest favors given to other industries, like banking, agriculture, pharmaceuticals and military companies.

Making profits from services people want is one thing. Using the government to expand your profits to the detriment of society, proper criminal justice and civil liberties is the pandora's box that is opened by private prisons.
 
One could make the same argument about healthcare, food, drugs, roads - this argument that government should do it all because some evil profit seeking company is only ever going to care about continued dependence on it's products or services rather than a real solution.

If you thought a private doctor was just trying to make more money off you by continuing having you come to his office for some treatments, would you not start to seek a 2nd (competitive) opinion or outright seek another doctor?
Likewise, if there is proof or suspicion of some company trying to increase amount of prisoners then there are other companies that can take their place.
That competitive pressure is what keeps them honest.

This is a bad (and neverending) road to head down. What have governmnet prisons ever done but give prisoners stupid things like free cable and weight equipment where you pay to bulk thems up so they are nice and pumped when they get out?

America's prison/industrial system has become big business where prisoners/slaves are put to work for about 25 cents an hour. Consequently, many American companies are closing down plants, laying off workers, and re-opening in American prisons where slaves can do the work for peanuts, with the added benefit of no concern for sick time, vacation, OSHA requirements, or employee relations of any kind.

America has become the greatest prison nation in human history and the costs for such an innoble distinction are a tremendous burden on American taxpayers, even as its a boom for US corporations and the prison/industrial complex.

Additionally, the societal and global image costs to America have their own toll.
 
This is not solely about profit and I thought I explained why this instance is different from other industries.

Aside from the fact that this is an argument for keeping the private sector out of an industry, it is also an argument for keeping the state from colluding with private industry. In a sense, it is an anti-state argument in the long run, because the mechanics under which a prison-industrial complex operates are very much the same as special interest favors given to other industries, like banking, agriculture, pharmaceuticals and military companies.

Making profits from services people want is one thing. Using the government to expand your profits to the detriment of society, proper criminal justice and civil liberties is the pandora's box that is opened by private prisons.

Welcome to the world of business.
 
America's prison/industrial system has become big business where prisoners/slaves are put to work for about 25 cents an hour. Consequently, many American companies are closing down plants, laying off workers, and re-opening in American prisons where slaves can do the work for peanuts, with the added benefit of no concern for sick time, vacation, OSHA requirements, or employee relations of any kind.

America has become the greatest prison nation in human history and the costs for such an innoble distinction are a tremendous burden on American taxpayers, even as its a boom for US corporations and the prison/industrial complex.

Additionally, the societal and global image costs to America have their own toll.

While I agree that the prison system is significantly messed up and over populated due to insane laws (in large part in the drug arena), to call them slaves is idiotic. You look at their hourly 'earnings' and proclaim that slave wages. What you are forgetting is the cost of imprisonment per prisoner. The rest of us earn an income and have to pay for food, clothing, shelter etc... The prisoners do not. Thus the cost of imprisonment should be included in their 'earnings'.
 
We've got some as well. Coincidentally they are badly run, less secure and riddled with corruption.

Does anyone notice a pattern emerging here?

But everyone knows that private industry can run things better than any government can!

Just look what the finiancial sector did for our economy.
 
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