Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push

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Earl

Well-known member
Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push

They cite a number of potential problems with the EV push but might just want to avoid having to slash prices and profit Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push by Stephen Rivers 19 hours ago comments 67 Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push A group of 3,882 dealers sent President Biden a letter begging him to lighten requirements for EV sales in the future. They cite a number of concerns that they have surrounding his administration’s mandates.

Some are sincere issues, but there’s likely more to this letter than altruistic dealers concerned for their customers. In the letter dated November 28th, 2023, dealers say that while BEVs are ideal for many people, “demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships.” They go on to say that the regulations are unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. At one point, the letter even talks about how nobody knows more than them about car customers. Major issues at hand, in the eyes of the dealers at least, include charging infrastructure.

Customers who don’t have a way to charge at home have to rely on the public network which isn’t exactly amazing. In addition, they say that customers are “concerned about BEVs being unaffordable.” Some customers have to deal with poor weather that can reduce range. Others must drive so far that charging often isn’t wildly practical. Still others have to tow and we all know how that goes for an EV.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/11/n...s-plead-with-president-biden-to-slow-ev-push/
 
Another far left policy from the far left Democratic Socialist loons that harms hard working Americans.
 
Earl said:
Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push

They cite a number of potential problems with the EV push but might just want to avoid having to slash prices and profit Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push by Stephen Rivers 19 hours ago comments 67 Nearly 4,000 Car Dealers Plead With President Biden To Slow EV Push A group of 3,882 dealers sent President Biden a letter begging him to lighten requirements for EV sales in the future. They cite a number of concerns that they have surrounding his administration’s mandates.

Some are sincere issues, but there’s likely more to this letter than altruistic dealers concerned for their customers. In the letter dated November 28th, 2023, dealers say that while BEVs are ideal for many people, “demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships.” They go on to say that the regulations are unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. At one point, the letter even talks about how nobody knows more than them about car customers. Major issues at hand, in the eyes of the dealers at least, include charging infrastructure.

Customers who don’t have a way to charge at home have to rely on the public network which isn’t exactly amazing. In addition, they say that customers are “concerned about BEVs being unaffordable.” Some customers have to deal with poor weather that can reduce range. Others must drive so far that charging often isn’t wildly practical. Still others have to tow and we all know how that goes for an EV.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/11/n...s-plead-with-president-biden-to-slow-ev-push/
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If you have electricity at home, you can charge. If you live in an apartment without a hookup, EVs may not be for you.
 
Nordberg said:
If you have electricity at home, you can charge. If you live in an apartment without a hookup, EVs may not be for you.
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That’s not quite true, Nordy.

A Level 2 40 Amp charger requires a 50 Amp dedicated circuit in your garage. A GFCI is required too.

Not many people have a 220 volt, 50 Amp dedicated circuit. You might have to have a new circuit breaker box installed…big bucks.

You can use a 110 volt charger with a regular outlet but it takes longer to charge, about 24 hours.
 
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Earl said:
That’s not quite true, Nordy.

A Level 2 40 Amp charger requires a 50 Amp dedicated circuit in your garage. A GFI is required too.

Not many people have a 220 volt, 50 Amp dedicated circuit. You might have to have a new circuit breaker box installed…big bucks.

You can use a 110 volt charger with a regular outlet but it takes longer to charge.






The National Electrical Code requires an electrical circuit to be rated for 25% greater amperage than your charger's output. For example, if you want to buy a 40-amp Level 2 charger, you'll need a circuit breaker that's rated for at least 50 amps.Sep
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I wonder how much electricity we would need to produce if every car in America today was electric? And I wonder if the current grid could handle it and how much it will cost to upgrade the current grid if it can't.
 
Yakuda said:
I wonder how much electricity we would need to produce if every car in America today was electric? And I wonder if the current grid could handle it and how much it will cost to upgrade the current grid if it can't.
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We do not have the power grid necessary today if all cars were EV’s and the cost would be astronomical.

The increased power grid would have to be phased in.

If husband and wife both have EV’s, they would have to have two charging circuits.
 
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Nordberg said:
If you have electricity at home, you can charge. If you live in an apartment without a hookup, EVs may not be for you.
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So you can spend hours to days waiting for your EV to charge. Whoopie. 250 mile range and you have to charge it again, taking hours to do it. Whoopie.

I don't have to charge my car. It has effectively infinite range and 400 mile range on a single tank. Refueling only takes a few minutes.
 
Earl said:
That’s not quite true, Nordy.

A Level 2 40 Amp charger requires a 50 Amp dedicated circuit in your garage. A GFCI is required too.

Not many people have a 220 volt, 50 Amp dedicated circuit. You might have to have a new circuit breaker box installed…big bucks.

You can use a 110 volt charger with a regular outlet but it takes longer to charge, about 24 hours.
Click to expand...

A Tesla-style charger (now that I've installed some), can be fitted to take anything from a 30 to 100 amp two pole breaker at 240 VAC. So, it can be installed in most garages / carports. The higher the amperage, the faster it charges. There's a little trimming potentiometer in them that you set the amperage draw to.

That said, at the upper end (60 + amps) you are looking at your electric bill skyrocketing for the month if you EVER charge the vehicle during that month on peak hours. That's like having two central house heat pumps / air conditioners running the whole time you charge. It will destroy your electric bill.

Charging off peak not so much, but you will see a notable increase in your bill for it.

Apartments and rentals? You're screwed unless the landlord wants to provide the unit. That will also definitely involve permitting an inspection unlike a do-it-yourself set up in your own home where stuff is done unpermitted all the time.

For a 60 to 100 amp charging rate expect materials to run close between $750 and $1500 depending on the exact ampacity used on their own. With labor, markup on materials, etc., I'd say somewhere between $2000 and $4000 is the going rate for a full install if you can't find somebody, like me, who charges less than full rate and doesn't markup materials because I'm doing it mainly to keep busy. That doesn't include the charging unit itself.

At 100 amps it takes about 4 - 6 hours to charge the vehicle from a near empty battery.

But renters? They're screwed. I wouldn't install a unit. Too much cost and no return on investment for me. On apartment complexes, particularly the lower end of that, it'd be insane to put them in. They'd just be a target for copper thieves, the renters wouldn't give a shit about abusing them since they'd have to be common property so the individual renters would have no responsibility for caring for them. You'd have to be an idiot as a landlord to install them.

After all, if I were to install them in that situation, insurance goes up, the rent increases to cover the cost of the chargers and electricity used, etc., all making my low rent apartments less desirable to people who look at the rent per month first, second, and last as what's important.
 
On apartment complexes...

Installing chargers would easily run anywhere from $50,000 and up depending on the size of the complex. A small one of say 12 units at most would be around $50K. A big complex with say 50 to 100+ units could easily hit half-a-million, possibly more.

First, the owner(s) would have to install a new common service to provide the power. Then they'd have to have conduit trenched and run out to the parking areas to put in the charging stations. Then there's the cost of the stations, the cost of the materials to hook them up, getting some service or company to run the billing for use, and of course, you'd have to repair the parking lot, etc., after the install is complete.

The more stations you put in the higher the cost. If you put in just fraction of the number of units in the complex in stations you could have your tenants bitching about wait times and the like on top of everything else.

If I were a landlord, I'd also charge premium rates to the tenants to pay off the cost of those stations ASAP. Don't like it? Charge your POS EV somewhere else. If the government mandated installation, I'd definitely up the price on a charge.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
A Tesla-style charger (now that I've installed some), can be fitted to take anything from a 30 to 100 amp two pole breaker at 240 VAC. So, it can be installed in most garages / carports. The higher the amperage, the faster it charges. There's a little trimming potentiometer in them that you set the amperage draw to.

That said, at the upper end (60 + amps) you are looking at your electric bill skyrocketing for the month if you EVER charge the vehicle during that month on peak hours. That's like having two central house heat pumps / air conditioners running the whole time you charge. It will destroy your electric bill.

Charging off peak not so much, but you will see a notable increase in your bill for it.

Apartments and rentals? You're screwed unless the landlord wants to provide the unit. That will also definitely involve permitting an inspection unlike a do-it-yourself set up in your own home where stuff is done unpermitted all the time.

For a 60 to 100 amp charging rate expect materials to run close between $750 and $1500 depending on the exact ampacity used on their own. With labor, markup on materials, etc., I'd say somewhere between $2000 and $4000 is the going rate for a full install if you can't find somebody, like me, who charges less than full rate and doesn't markup materials because I'm doing it mainly to keep busy. That doesn't include the charging unit itself.

At 100 amps it takes about 4 - 6 hours to charge the vehicle from a near empty battery.

But renters? They're screwed. I wouldn't install a unit. Too much cost and no return on investment for me. On apartment complexes, particularly the lower end of that, it'd be insane to put them in. They'd just be a target for copper thieves, the renters wouldn't give a shit about abusing them since they'd have to be common property so the individual renters would have no responsibility for caring for them. You'd have to be an idiot as a landlord to install them.

After all, if I were to install them in that situation, insurance goes up, the rent increases to cover the cost of the chargers and electricity used, etc., all making my low rent apartments less desirable to people who look at the rent per month first, second, and last as what's important.
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That many chargers will require a 2nd primary service and transformer as well. The current setup on an apartment complex is inadequate. Yeah. THAT will be just the thing to lower rents!
 
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