multiculturalism has failed

It was meant to fail. Multiculturalism was just a temporary trick to convince western nations to import violent jihadists into all their cities.
 
multiculturalism has failed

Oh, Germany... I thought the indigenous people of North America finally decided to send everyone back to their own countries.

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apple0154 said:
A trick by whom? What was the purpose?
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There fucking idiots Apple. Were a nation that was predicated from the very fucking beginning on multiculturalism. Hell look around you? Unless you live in some insulated all white gated community the evidence to the contrary abounds. Only an idiot of the highest order wouldn't realize that multiculturalism is the greatest strength of this melting pot nation of ours.

The real truth here isn't that multiculturalism has failed. It hasn't. The real truth here is that men like Tinhead and Asshat are just bitter and insecure white guys who can't accept their own shortcomings and failures in life so they have to blame them on others.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
There fucking idiots Apple. Were a nation that was predicated from the very fucking beginning on multiculturalism. Hell look around you? Unless you live in some insulated all white gated community the evidence to the contrary abounds. Only an idiot of the highest order wouldn't realize that multiculturalism is the greatest strength of this melting pot nation of ours.

The real truth here isn't that multiculturalism has failed. It hasn't. The real truth here is that men like Tinhead and Asshat are just bitter and insecure white guys who can't accept their own shortcomings and failures in life so they have to blame them on others.
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You are confusing multi-culturalism with multi-ethnicity, in fact the US has been more successful than the UK in assimilating immigrants in some respects.
 
tom prendergast said:
You are confusing multi-culturalism with multi-ethnicity, in fact the US has been more successful than the UK in assimilating immigrants in some respects.
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No, I'm not mixing the two up. A lot of wingnuts who don't travel much outside their own homes have this irrational belief that we are some vast monolithic nation, culturally speaking. It's just asinine. My great grand parents said pretty much the same shit about German and Italian immigrants as these wingnuts do today about Mexican immigrants. They were wrong then and they are wrong today.
 
apple0154 said:
A trick by whom? What was the purpose?
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divide and conquer. Global elites are destroying all countries through economic destruction and political divisions. It's been a long time coming and who knows how long until they complete their plans, but the point is to cause populations to turn on themselves instead of on the ruling elites who have turned the screws and tuned the economy to fail.

You haven't learned the lessons from the past


Just look at the FED wanting to increase inflation right now to protect the economy. They aren't talking about the middleclass. They're talking about making sure wall street makes a profit.
 
tinfoil said:
divide and conquer. Global elites are destroying all countries through economic destruction and political divisions. It's been a long time coming and who knows how long until they complete their plans, but the point is to cause populations to turn on themselves instead of on the ruling elites who have turned the screws and tuned the economy to fail.

You haven't learned the lessons from the past


Just look at the FED wanting to increase inflation right now to protect the economy. They aren't talking about the middleclass. They're talking about making sure wall street makes a profit.
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Translation: Tinfoilhat hates black people.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No, I'm not mixing the two up. A lot of wingnuts who don't travel much outside their own homes have this irrational belief that we are some vast monolithic nation, culturally speaking. It's just asinine. My great grand parents said pretty much the same shit about German and Italian immigrants as these wingnuts do today about Mexican immigrants. They were wrong then and they are wrong today.
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There is nothing wrong with ethnic minorities celebrating their culture and traditions, but when they become new ghettos and refuse to integrate or even speak English then that's another thing. Many of our local councils have assisted this process by publishing literature in various languages, including Urdu, Vietnamese, Punjabi, Gujerati, Hindi, Tamil as well as all the Eastern European languages and a few African languages.
 
these tribalist paternalistic and strictly hierarchical and totalitarian cultres will be nurtured inside our democracies to replace the culture of freedom.
 
tom prendergast said:
There is nothing wrong with ethnic minorities celebrating their culture and traditions, but when they become new ghettos and refuse to integrate or even speak English then that's another thing. Many of our local councils have assisted this process by publishing literature in various languages, including Urdu, Vietnamese, Punjabi, Gujerati, Hindi, Tamil as well as all the Eastern European languages and a few African languages.
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Dude it's the same thing over here. We just have more experience with it. First come the immigrants from a particular culture or nationality or ethnicity. The gather together in insular communities where they live much as they did in their former home practicing their own religion, language and customs. Many do not or cannot learn the lingua franca. The stark differences between them and the near by mainstream culture is an invitation for discrimination of the new group by the local dominant group. The new group lives in an uneasy but separate peace with the dominant culture. They have kids. The kids go to the public schools of the dominant society. They learn the lingua franca, the history, tradition and popular culture of their new homeland their parent have immigrated to. They begin to assimilate with the dominant culture, a significant number even marry persons from the dominant culture. Since these children of the immigrants are better prepared they succeed more economically in the dominant culture. With economic prosperity comes political involvement and activism and even further assimilation. The children of the immigrants have children. Many of these grandchildren never learn their parents native language though they do learn their heritage and tradition. These children are almost completely assimilated and most will grow up to marry members of the mainstream culture. By the 4th generation assimilation is virtually complete. The members of this generation are almost indistinguishable from those of the mainstream culture because they are predominantly of the mainstream culture itself.

Some examples I would use.

#1. Many of the families I know from rural Ohio where I come from, the people of my Grandparents age were first generation immigrants and their great grandparents were immigrants from Germany. Many in my fathers generation can understand German when it's spoken but can't speak it themselves. Most of their grandparents were literate in German and English and most of their great Grandparents were literate in only German. Today you would be hard pressed to tell that most of the people of my fathers generation, in this area, are only second generation immigrants from Germany.

#2. Towards the end of the Vietnam war there was a large amount of non-English speaking immigration the the USA from southeast Asia. Most of them established insular Asian communities in our cities that did not assimilate well. 40 years later their grandchildren are indistinguishable, from a cultural standpoint, from mainstream culture.

#3. Same with many of the Hispanics I know from Mexico. Most of the first generation struggle with English language and are culturally Mexicans. Their children though are all ready beginning to assimilate. The have learned English and American customs and are going to our schools. The adult children are doing substantially better then their parents. Etc.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Dude it's the same thing over here. We just have more experience with it. First come the immigrants from a particular culture or nationality or ethnicity. The gather together in insular communities where they live much as they did in their former home practicing their own religion, language and customs. Many do not or cannot learn the lingua franca. The stark differences between them and the near by mainstream culture is an invitation for discrimination of the new group by the local dominant group. The new group lives in an uneasy but separate peace with the dominant culture. They have kids. The kids go to the public schools of the dominant society. They learn the lingua franca, the history, tradition and popular culture of their new homeland their parent have immigrated to. They begin to assimilate with the dominant culture, a significant number even marry persons from the dominant culture. Since these children of the immigrants are better prepared they succeed more economically in the dominant culture. With economic prosperity comes political involvement and activism and even further assimilation. The children of the immigrants have children. Many of these grandchildren never learn their parents native language though they do learn their heritage and tradition. These children are almost completely assimilated and most will grow up to marry members of the mainstream culture. By the 4th generation assimilation is virtually complete. The members of this generation are almost indistinguishable from those of the mainstream culture because they are predominantly of the mainstream culture itself.

Some examples I would use.

#1. Many of the families I know from rural Ohio where I come from, the people of my Grandparents age were first generation immigrants and their great grandparents were immigrants from Germany. Many in my fathers generation can understand German when it's spoken but can't speak it themselves. Most of their grandparents were literate in German and English and most of their great Grandparents were literate in only German. Today you would be hard pressed to tell that most of the people of my fathers generation, in this area, are only second generation immigrants from Germany.

#2. Towards the end of the Vietnam war there was a large amount of non-English speaking immigration the the USA from southeast Asia. Most of them established insular Asian communities in our cities that did not assimilate well. 40 years later their grandchildren are indistinguishable, from a cultural standpoint, from mainstream culture.

#3. Same with many of the Hispanics I know from Mexico. Most of the first generation struggle with English language and are culturally Mexicans. Their children though are all ready beginning to assimilate. The have learned English and American customs and are going to our schools. The adult children are doing substantially better then their parents. Etc.
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But stoopid, there has to be a commitment to integration, and a growing economy. The stagnation of socialism guarantees discrimination.

The move to include shariah law in our legal system proves that assimilation is no longer the goal.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Dude it's the same thing over here. We just have more experience with it. First come the immigrants from a particular culture or nationality or ethnicity. The gather together in insular communities where they live much as they did in their former home practicing their own religion, language and customs. Many do not or cannot learn the lingua franca. The stark differences between them and the near by mainstream culture is an invitation for discrimination of the new group by the local dominant group. The new group lives in an uneasy but separate peace with the dominant culture. They have kids. The kids go to the public schools of the dominant society. They learn the lingua franca, the history, tradition and popular culture of their new homeland their parent have immigrated to. They begin to assimilate with the dominant culture, a significant number even marry persons from the dominant culture. Since these children of the immigrants are better prepared they succeed more economically in the dominant culture. With economic prosperity comes political involvement and activism and even further assimilation. The children of the immigrants have children. Many of these grandchildren never learn their parents native language though they do learn their heritage and tradition. These children are almost completely assimilated and most will grow up to marry members of the mainstream culture. By the 4th generation assimilation is virtually complete. The members of this generation are almost indistinguishable from those of the mainstream culture because they are predominantly of the mainstream culture itself.

Some examples I would use.

#1. Many of the families I know from rural Ohio where I come from, the people of my Grandparents age were first generation immigrants and their great grandparents were immigrants from Germany. Many in my fathers generation can understand German when it's spoken but can't speak it themselves. Most of their grandparents were literate in German and English and most of their great Grandparents were literate in only German. Today you would be hard pressed to tell that most of the people of my fathers generation, in this area, are only second generation immigrants from Germany.

#2. Towards the end of the Vietnam war there was a large amount of non-English speaking immigration the the USA from southeast Asia. Most of them established insular Asian communities in our cities that did not assimilate well. 40 years later their grandchildren are indistinguishable, from a cultural standpoint, from mainstream culture.

#3. Same with many of the Hispanics I know from Mexico. Most of the first generation struggle with English language and are culturally Mexicans. Their children though are all ready beginning to assimilate. The have learned English and American customs and are going to our schools. The adult children are doing substantially better then their parents. Etc.
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This country has had a long tradition of immigration from just about everywhere, for instance there has been black communities for over 200 years in disparate places such as Liverpool, Bristol and Cardiff. Many Jews came to England because of the Russian pogroms in the early 20th century and during WW2. In the Fifties, there was a huge migration from the Caribbean islands and the Indian sub-continent.

In recent years there has been an enormous influx of Eastern Europeans as well. When the EU admitted Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and the Czech Republic in 2004, the Home Office estimated that the annual migration would be around 13,000. The actual numbers turned out to be in excess of one million putting enormous strain on public services like education, welfare and the NHS. In 2007, Romania and Bulgaria became full members, those countries took that as a opportunity to empty their jails and get rid of their Roma populations. Romania only recently decided to give Romanian passports to over a million Moldavians, so they also have full rights to migrate to the EU as well.

I wonder how well known any of this is in the US? I'm sure that you do as you are well read and learned.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
Dude it's the same thing over here. We just have more experience with it. First come the immigrants from a particular culture or nationality or ethnicity. The gather together in insular communities where they live much as they did in their former home practicing their own religion, language and customs. Many do not or cannot learn the lingua franca. The stark differences between them and the near by mainstream culture is an invitation for discrimination of the new group by the local dominant group. The new group lives in an uneasy but separate peace with the dominant culture. They have kids. The kids go to the public schools of the dominant society. They learn the lingua franca, the history, tradition and popular culture of their new homeland their parent have immigrated to. They begin to assimilate with the dominant culture, a significant number even marry persons from the dominant culture. Since these children of the immigrants are better prepared they succeed more economically in the dominant culture. With economic prosperity comes political involvement and activism and even further assimilation. The children of the immigrants have children. Many of these grandchildren never learn their parents native language though they do learn their heritage and tradition. These children are almost completely assimilated and most will grow up to marry members of the mainstream culture. By the 4th generation assimilation is virtually complete. The members of this generation are almost indistinguishable from those of the mainstream culture because they are predominantly of the mainstream culture itself.

Some examples I would use.

#1. Many of the families I know from rural Ohio where I come from, the people of my Grandparents age were first generation immigrants and their great grandparents were immigrants from Germany. Many in my fathers generation can understand German when it's spoken but can't speak it themselves. Most of their grandparents were literate in German and English and most of their great Grandparents were literate in only German. Today you would be hard pressed to tell that most of the people of my fathers generation, in this area, are only second generation immigrants from Germany.

#2. Towards the end of the Vietnam war there was a large amount of non-English speaking immigration the the USA from southeast Asia. Most of them established insular Asian communities in our cities that did not assimilate well. 40 years later their grandchildren are indistinguishable, from a cultural standpoint, from mainstream culture.

#3. Same with many of the Hispanics I know from Mexico. Most of the first generation struggle with English language and are culturally Mexicans. Their children though are all ready beginning to assimilate. The have learned English and American customs and are going to our schools. The adult children are doing substantially better then their parents. Etc.
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How is this support for the idea that multiculturalism is succeeding? By your own words, the people from the immigrant culture are assimilated to the point that there is little to distinguish them from anyone else in the mainstream culture. At best the 3rd and subsequent generations may participate in cultural celebrations with their parents and/or grandparents. By the 5th generation, even that disappears.

I watch PBS a lot. I see these two commercials where an NA child (tribe nor nation is disclosed) where their ambition is to hold a pow wow in unusual locations - specifically the moon or under the ocean. Two commercials, two NAs, and one basic culturally based ambition. Nor are these two commercials the only indicator of where NA culture is going (...going...gone.) As one with significant NA bloodlines, it saddens me that of all the rich heritage of the NA peoples, the pow wow is the only thing left that is regularly celebrated or recognized. We have been assimilated to the point even our elders do not remember much of our real heritage. What little is even remembered is by historians who never experienced it to pass it on.

And while a nation as large as ours cannot possibly be of one mega-block culture, cultures of locality also tend to assimilate "immigrants". Take a person from Montana, like my second-eldest niece, and transplant her to New York, she will (and has) absorbed so much of the New York culture that much of her Montana background is hidden.

The fact is multiculturalism does NOT work. AT best we have learned to tolerate - after a fashion - other cultures. But when two cultures are permanently thrust together, as is what happens when a large sector of people from a culture immigrate to another, the "mainstream" culture will assimilate the other, only sometimes absorbing and retaining cultural aspects of the culture they have absorbed, and more often leaving little tto no trace of the other.
 
Good Luck said:
How is this support for the idea that multiculturalism is succeeding? By your own words, the people from the immigrant culture are assimilated to the point that there is little to distinguish them from anyone else in the mainstream culture. At best the 3rd and subsequent generations may participate in cultural celebrations with their parents and/or grandparents. By the 5th generation, even that disappears.

I watch PBS a lot. I see these two commercials where an NA child (tribe nor nation is disclosed) where their ambition is to hold a pow wow in unusual locations - specifically the moon or under the ocean. Two commercials, two NAs, and one basic culturally based ambition. Nor are these two commercials the only indicator of where NA culture is going (...going...gone.) As one with significant NA bloodlines, it saddens me that of all the rich heritage of the NA peoples, the pow wow is the only thing left that is regularly celebrated or recognized. We have been assimilated to the point even our elders do not remember much of our real heritage. What little is even remembered is by historians who never experienced it to pass it on.

And while a nation as large as ours cannot possibly be of one mega-block culture, cultures of locality also tend to assimilate "immigrants". Take a person from Montana, like my second-eldest niece, and transplant her to New York, she will (and has) absorbed so much of the New York culture that much of her Montana background is hidden.

The fact is multiculturalism does NOT work. AT best we have learned to tolerate - after a fashion - other cultures. But when two cultures are permanently thrust together, as is what happens when a large sector of people from a culture immigrate to another, the "mainstream" culture will assimilate the other, only sometimes absorbing and retaining cultural aspects of the culture they have absorbed, and more often leaving little tto no trace of the other.
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That was my support for multiculturalism. If multiculturalism didn't work then those immigrant groups wouldn't assimilate. More evidence to that affect is that when we do assimilate others from another culture is that we will adopt the superior aspects of their culture and integrate them into ours.

An example of that in recent years is how we have adopted and assimilated Japanese business and manufacturing processes into our culture.

Another example of that is how in the late 19th and early 20th century we adopted the German model for academic progression in our State funded land grant Universities. To this day we still pretty much use the German model.

More examples would come from all the traditions and practices we have adopted and assimilated from Native American culture. Those are far to many to note here.

More examples would be of how midwest rural German/American/Catholic culture is far different then New York City Hasidic Jewish culture and how that is far removed from Southern California Latino/Catholic culture and how far removed that is from rural south eastern Anglican/Baptist culture and how that is far removed from working class urban industrial culture in the Great Lakes region. Yet we still manage quite well as a nation by uniting behind such unifying forces as language, government and politics, education, etc.
 
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