McCarthy Ouster Warning Sign for Democracy

martin

Well-known member
Some of our dumber members have the impression that The United States is not a democracy ("it's a republic", as if the two are mutually exclusive) so for them this analysis in The Washington Post today probably won't be sobering.

"When the House of Representatives voted to oust Kevin McCarthy as Speaker on Tuesday, it was the first such removal in American history, a vivid rebuke of his leadership and an escalation of the civil strife within the Republican Party.

But historians and political scientists say it is something more: a warning sign for the health of American democracy.

“If you want to know what it looks like when democracy is in trouble, this is what it looks like,” said Daniel Ziblatt, professor of government at Harvard University. “It should set off alarm bells that something is not right.”

The vote reflected the enormous power that a small group of representatives camped on their party’s ideological fringe can wield over an entire institution, said Ziblatt, co-author of the book, “Tyranny of the Minority.” It also showcased how difficult it will be for anyone to corral the House in a way that’s functional, with major decisions over the budget and Ukraine funding up ahead.

Congress arrived at this point for myriad reasons, all of which build on one another, scholars say: Social media and cable news incentivized politicians to perform for the camera, not for their constituents. Aggressive gerrymandering created deeply partisan districts where representation is decided in primary contests, not general elections. Weakened political parties became captive to their loudest and most extreme members.

Taken together, those factors handed a small number of lawmakers the power to throw one of the three branches of government into disarray and, for now, paralysis.

The band of eight Republicans who rejected McCarthy, most of whom are members of the hard-right Freedom Caucus, were opposed by 216 of their fellow GOP representatives, all of whom voted to keep the speaker in place.

The rebels collectively represent just 1.8 percent of the country, all in safely Republican districts. But with Democrats voting in lockstep against a speaker who they said had repeatedly broken their trust, that was enough to secure McCarthy’s defeat in a closely divided House.

Led by Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, McCarthy’s antagonists said they were voting to end runaway federal spending and protest government dysfunction.

“Washington must change,” Gaetz insisted from the House floor.

Scholars said the actions of Gaetz and his allies have only deepened the dysfunction, leaving the House rudderless and with no clear path to effective leadership. Having narrowly avoided a government shutdown over the weekend, another looms next month. Future assistance to Ukraine as it fends off a Russian invasion is also at stake.

“We are watching a very small number of folks from the House Republican conference have an outsize role in promoting a lot of congressional dysfunction and fiscal dysfunction,” said Laura Blessing, a senior fellow at the Government Affairs Institute at Georgetown University. “This is a move for volatility and not a move to pass legislation.”

The members who voted against McCarthy are in the extreme minority, not only within the House overall but within their own party, she added.

“They do not have the votes [for their own policy proposals] and they know that,” she said.

McCarthy has not endorsed a would-be successor, leaving Republicans to scramble to find a viable candidate. Barring an unlikely and unprecedented consensus speaker who receives support from both parties, aspirants will need to earn the favor of nearly the entire Republican caucus, which ranges from relative moderates representing districts won by President Biden to the hard-right faction that just toppled one of its own...

After he was deposed, McCarthy himself voiced fears about how to legislate in an environment where the leader is captive of his own side’s most intransigent faction.

“My fear is the institution fell today because you can’t do the job if … you have 94 percent or 96 percent of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side,” he said Tuesday evening. “How do you govern?”

It is a question that scholars are posing as well, seeking explanations and historical antecedents.

“If American democracy is already suffering and weak from various maladies, this unruly crisis in the House is just going to kick it a little further in that direction,” said Alex Keyssar, a professor of history and social policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. “You are taking a set of institutions and you are weakening them and then pointing to their weakness.”

As unprecedented as Tuesday’s vote was, this moment is a continuation of a trend in American political culture, said Joseph Postell, a political scientist at Hillsdale College. He pointed to the troubled tenures of previous Republican speakers of the House such as John A. Boehner and Paul D. Ryan, both of whom struggled with stiff resistance from their right flank.

“What McCarthy faced today is another domino in the many dominoes that have fallen over the last decade or so,” said Postell..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/04/republican-votes-kevin-mccarthy-ousted/
 
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Some of our dumber members have the impression that The United States is not a democracy ("it's a republic", as if the two are mutually exclusive) so for them this analysis in The Washington Post today probably won't be sobering.

"When the House of Representatives voted to oust Kevin McCarthy as Speaker on Tuesday, it was the first such removal in American history, a vivid rebuke of his leadership and an escalation of the civil strife within the Republican Party.

But historians and political scientists say it is something more: a warning sign for the health of American democracy.

“If you want to know what it looks like when democracy is in trouble, this is what it looks like,” said Daniel Ziblatt, professor of government at Harvard University. “It should set off alarm bells that something is not right.”

The vote reflected the enormous power that a small group of representatives camped on their party’s ideological fringe can wield over an entire institution, said Ziblatt, co-author of the book, “Tyranny of the Minority.” It also showcased how difficult it will be for anyone to corral the House in a way that’s functional, with major decisions over the budget and Ukraine funding up ahead.

Congress arrived at this point for myriad reasons, all of which build on one another, scholars say: Social media and cable news incentivized politicians to perform for the camera, not for their constituents. Aggressive gerrymandering created deeply partisan districts where representation is decided in primary contests, not general elections. Weakened political parties became captive to their loudest and most extreme members.

Taken together, those factors handed a small number of lawmakers the power to throw one of the three branches of government into disarray and, for now, paralysis.

The band of eight Republicans who rejected McCarthy, most of whom are members of the hard-right Freedom Caucus, were opposed by 216 of their fellow GOP representatives, all of whom voted to keep the speaker in place.

The rebels collectively represent just 1.8 percent of the country, all in safely Republican districts. But with Democrats voting in lockstep against a speaker who they said had repeatedly broken their trust, that was enough to secure McCarthy’s defeat in a closely divided House.

Led by Florida Rep. Matt Gaetz, McCarthy’s antagonists said they were voting to end runaway federal spending and protest government dysfunction.

“Washington must change,” Gaetz insisted from the House floor.

Scholars said the actions of Gaetz and his allies have only deepened the dysfunction, leaving the House rudderless and with no clear path to effective leadership. Having narrowly avoided a government shutdown over the weekend, another looms next month. Future assistance to Ukraine as it fends off a Russian invasion is also at stake.

“We are watching a very small number of folks from the House Republican conference have an outsize role in promoting a lot of congressional dysfunction and fiscal dysfunction,” said Laura Blessing, a senior fellow at the Government Affairs Institute at Georgetown University. “This is a move for volatility and not a move to pass legislation.”

The members who voted against McCarthy are in the extreme minority, not only within the House overall but within their own party, she added.

“They do not have the votes [for their own policy proposals] and they know that,” she said.

McCarthy has not endorsed a would-be successor, leaving Republicans to scramble to find a viable candidate. Barring an unlikely and unprecedented consensus speaker who receives support from both parties, aspirants will need to earn the favor of nearly the entire Republican caucus, which ranges from relative moderates representing districts won by President Biden to the hard-right faction that just toppled one of its own...

After he was deposed, McCarthy himself voiced fears about how to legislate in an environment where the leader is captive of his own side’s most intransigent faction.

“My fear is the institution fell today because you can’t do the job if … you have 94 percent or 96 percent of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side,” he said Tuesday evening. “How do you govern?”

It is a question that scholars are posing as well, seeking explanations and historical antecedents.

“If American democracy is already suffering and weak from various maladies, this unruly crisis in the House is just going to kick it a little further in that direction,” said Alex Keyssar, a professor of history and social policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. “You are taking a set of institutions and you are weakening them and then pointing to their weakness.”

As unprecedented as Tuesday’s vote was, this moment is a continuation of a trend in American political culture, said Joseph Postell, a political scientist at Hillsdale College. He pointed to the troubled tenures of previous Republican speakers of the House such as John A. Boehner and Paul D. Ryan, both of whom struggled with stiff resistance from their right flank.

“What McCarthy faced today is another domino in the many dominoes that have fallen over the last decade or so,” said Postell..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/04/republican-votes-kevin-mccarthy-ousted/

This dumb thread didn't go very far, did it, Marty?

We have a Constitutional Federal Republic form of government...see the CIA World Fact-book. https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/united-states/#government

Poor Marty.
 
North Korea is a named republic. China is a named Republic. It helps to know what words mean when you use them. A dictionary would have told little Earl that a republic is any national government not a monarchy. The United States is representative democracy form of republic.
 
North Korea is a named republic. China is a named Republic. It helps to know what words mean when you use them. A dictionary would have told little Earl that a republic is any national government not a monarchy. The United States is representative democracy form of republic.

No, Marty, it’s a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Do you need help reading the CIA World Factbook, Marty?

You can Google it…here…


What is the US form of government called?
While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic.

Poor Marty.
 
'Republic: A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."

Oxford Dictionary.

In other words: like China, the government of The United States is vested in the people rather than a monarch but, unlike China, that representation is chosen by the population at large rather than a select body.

This distinction would not have been arguable until Trump arrived and democracy began to seem less desirable to his weak minded voters .
 
'Republic: A state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch."

Oxford Dictionary.

In other words: like China, the government of The United States is vested in the people rather than a monarch but, unlike China, that representation is chosen by the population at large rather than a select body.

This distinction would not have been arguable until Trump arrived and democracy began to seem less desirable to his weak minded voters .

So, Marty, you admit that we have a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Why the obvious obfuscation with China?

Weak minded indeed, Marty. You never learned your eighth grade Civics lessons.

Poor Marty.
 
So, Marty, you admit that we have a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Why the obvious obfuscation with China?

Weak minded indeed, Marty. You never learned your eighth grade Civics lessons.

Poor Marty.

Why is this so hard even for you? Of course the US is a constitutional federal republic. The question is what kind of constitutional federal republic. The reference to China is to clarify, not obfuscate, dumbbell, since China also is a constitutional federal republic
so the obfuscation is in defining our systems the same when they are fundamentally different. One is democratic, one is autocratic.

If you took civics in grade school I'm pretty sure you were taught you live in a democracy.
 
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Why is this so hard even for you? Of course the US is a constitutional federal republic. The question is what kind of constitutional federal republic. The reference to China is to clarify, not obfuscate, dumbbell, since China also is a constitutional federal public
so the obfuscation is in defining our systems the same when they are fundamentally different. One is democratic, one is autocratic.

If you took civics in grade school I'm pretty sure you were taught you live in a democracy.

You are back-peddling now, Marty:

Marty: "The United States is representative democracy form of republic."


Now:

Marty..."Of course the US is a constitutional federal republic."

Sorry, Marty, you need to remember what you posted a few minutes ago.

Are you an ancient, Marty?
 
You are back-peddling now, Marty:

Marty: "The United States is representative democracy form of republic."


Now:

Marty..."Of course the US is a constitutional federal republic."

Sorry, Marty, you need to remember what you posted a few minutes ago.

Are you an ancient, Marty?

Still front peddling. Once again, see if you can process this: the U.S. is indeed "a constitutional federal republic," and the U.S. is indeed a "representative democracy form" of that constitutional federal republic.

Grasping that may be slightly harder than adding two plus two, but only slightly.
 
North Korea is a named republic. China is a named Republic. It helps to know what words mean when you use them. A dictionary would have told little Earl that a republic is any national government not a monarchy. The United States is representative democracy form of republic.

To pEarl this thread is "dumb" because the OP had more words than he typically reads in an entire week.

MAGATs want to burn the country to the ground to "save" it. The only thing we need saving from is MAGATs and their #MalignantMessiah.
 
Still front peddling. Once again, see if you can process this: the U.S. is indeed "a constitutional federal republic," and the U.S. is indeed a "representative democracy form" of that constitutional federal republic.

Grasping that may be slightly harder than adding two plus two, but only slightly.

Wrong again, Marty- Your post-"China also is a constitutional federal public." "Public," Marty?



No, Marty, China is a Communist Party Led State. (CIA World Fact-book).https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/china/#government

Why the playground ad homs, Marty, you are the one ignorant of the types of government in the US and China.


You are still in arrears for my tutorials, Marty. Pay up (sic).
 
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To pEarl this thread is "dumb" because the OP had more words than he typically reads in an entire week.

MAGATs want to burn the country to the ground to "save" it. The only thing we need saving from is MAGATs and their #MalignantMessiah.

Take a hike, foul person.
 
To pEarl this thread is "dumb" because the OP had more words than he typically reads in an entire week.

MAGATs want to burn the country to the ground to "save" it. The only thing we need saving from is MAGATs and their #MalignantMessiah.

Dumbing down to their level is the first rule of arguing concepts with Trump voters. Even then they might not get it. This "the U.S. is not a democracy" rubbish you wouldn't have heard from them pre-Trump is concerning.
 
No, Marty, it’s a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Do you need help reading the CIA World Factbook, Marty?

You can Google it…here…


What is the US form of government called?
While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic.

Poor Marty.

Your reference is a government source, not a dictionary. Is that what you learned in school, dumbo. Look to the government for truth? Anyway, this is what the "Factbook" says about democracy:

"Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed." So, once again. the U.S. is both the Factbook's definition of a republic and the Factbook's definition of a democracy.
 
Your reference is a government source, not a dictionary. Is that what you learned in school, dumbo. Look to the government for truth? Anyway, this is what the "Factbook" says about democracy:

"Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed." So, once again. the U.S. is both the Factbook's definition of a republic and the Factbook's definition of a democracy.

You should stop while you are still behind, Marty.

No, Marty, it’s a Constitutional Federal Republic.

Do you need help reading the CIA World Factbook, Marty?
 
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