Left's view on Libya: Is this Bush's third term?

signalmankenneth

Verified User
New York (CNN) -- It's déjà vu all over again.

Congressman Dennis Kucinich is talking impeachment. Ralph Nader is grumbling that the president of the United States is a "war criminal." Michael Moore is venting his spleen on the subject of U.S. hypocrisy.

What's different is that the president provoking the professional protest crowd this time is a Democrat.

For all the overheated anger at President Obama from the far right, where people have called him a socialist and worse, the fact is that Obama isn't considered a ideological soul mate by the far left. Far from it.

One of the reasons: Libya is just the latest example of Obama embracing national security executive powers that have prompted some liberals to claim that he is leading George W. Bush's third term.

First, there was the decision to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan. Then came the realization that closing Guantanamo was easier said than done. There is the administration's use of wiretaps and escalation of predator drone strikes. And now the airstrikes in Libya, engaged without extensively consulting Congress.

An objective assessment of the Obama record on foreign policy shows that he has not been the soft liberal ideologue that conservatives want to run against. An excellent book by my Daily Beast colleague Stephen Carter, "The Violence of Peace," analyzes Obama's War Doctrine at length from a legal, but readable, perspective. Carter writes, "On matters of national security, at least, the Oval Office evidently changes the outlook of its occupant far more than the occupant changes the outlook of the Oval Office."

While Obama has changed the unilateral style of the Bush administration, he's kept much of the substance. He has drawn down troops in Iraq, as promised. But on many other fronts, he has found that campaign rhetoric often does not square with the responsibilities of governing.

Because many on the left define themselves in opposition to authority, they are historically quick to turn on presidents of their own party for being insufficiently liberal -- whether it is Truman's and Kennedy's Cold Warrior enthusiasm, LBJ's escalation of the Vietnam War, Jimmy Carter's budget cuts or Bill Clinton's welfare reform.

Kucinich has been joined by a small chorus of voices from the left in Congress in condemning the president. These include: Barbara Lee (who was the lone vote against the Afghanistan invasion after 9/11); Michael Capuano (last seen telling a union rally "you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody"); Maxine Waters (who repeatedly pulled a proto-Joe Wilson by calling President Bush a "liar") and Sheila Jackson Lee (a House Foreign Affairs committee member who last year said "Today we have two Vietnams, side by side, North and South").

This cast of characters is a fair representation of the far left in the minds of the right. And yet they are now among Obama's fiercest critics. That should be a reality check that resonates with centrist and independent voters.

"Justified or not?"

But you've got to give Obama's critics on the left points for ideological consistency. They are apparently not swayed by simple partisanship. Some of their newfound allies on the right, however, will have a harder time making that case.

For example, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a potential Republican presidential candidate, took aim at the Libya intervention, calling it "opportunistic amateurism without planning or professionalism." A few days earlier, as Alana Goodman pointed out in Commentary, he had been criticizing Obama's inaction, saying, "This is a moment to get rid of [Gadhafi]. Do it. Get it over with."

Libertarian, and longtime critic of the neo-cons, Ron Paul can at least claim consistency in his circulation of a congressional resolution "expressing the sense of Congress that the President is required to obtain in advance specific statutory authorization for the use of United States Armed Forces in response to civil unrest in Libya." Among its supporters to date is Detroit Democrat John Conyers -- Ron Paul's philosophic opposite on almost everything. The Beltway buzz was that committed partisans finally found something upon which they could agree.

Obama can be criticized for delay in his decision to impose a no-fly zone. He can be criticized for communicating more with allies in advance of multilateral action than with members of Congress. He can be criticized for lack of military experience before entering office and insufficiently clear directives after.

But the secret hiding in plain sight is that Barack Obama was never the simple "anti-war candidate" his leftist supporters hoped or his conservative opponents feared. While he opposed Iraq from the beginning, he supported escalation in Afghanistan, even proposing drone strikes into Pakistan during the campaign.

The criticism of the professional left and the professional right is likely to heat up if the conflict drags on. Michael Moore's tweeted sarcasm will set the tone for other liberal Obama critics on the netroots: "We've had a "no-fly zone" over Afghanistan for over 9 years. How's that going? #WINNING!"

But Moore's suggestion that Obama return his 2009 Nobel Peace Prize ignores the substance of what the president said in his acceptance speech:

"I believe that force can be justified on humanitarian grounds, as it was in the Balkans, or in other places that have been scarred by war. Inaction tears at our conscience and can lead to more costly intervention later. That is why all responsible nations must embrace the role that militaries with a clear mandate can play to keep the peace."

By John P. Avlon.

o-libya-necessary.jpg


o-bombs-away.jpg


women-with-power.jpg
 
this would have some legitimacy if they weren't just citing FAR left wing kooks.

when you start citing folks like reid and pelosi, then you'll understand how dishonest the left can be. sure, the right can be as well. but to the claim the higher ground because some far left kooks take issue with obama, is to build yourself a hollow ground. the democrat leaders are no where near as vitriol of obama as they were of bush on the SAME issues.

come back when you have something besides far left wackoism that you're trying to pass off as mainstream lib
 
this would have some legitimacy if they weren't just citing FAR left wing kooks.

when you start citing folks like reid and pelosi, then you'll understand how dishonest the left can be. sure, the right can be as well. but to the claim the higher ground because some far left kooks take issue with obama, is to build yourself a hollow ground. the democrat leaders are no where near as vitriol of obama as they were of bush on the SAME issues.

come back when you have something besides far left wackoism that you're trying to pass off as mainstream lib

Man, it all has to be "just so" with you, doesn't it. I doubt the left will ever rise to the level of opposition that suits your weird standards....on these "identical" situations...
 
Man, it all has to be "just so" with you, doesn't it. I doubt the left will ever rise to the level of opposition that suits your weird standards....on these "identical" situations...

the difference between you and me onceler, is i don't hang my hat on whether i say something right or left. i post my beliefs and opinions. regardless of party. though, my beliefs tend to lean toward the pub or conservative side of the proverbial aisle. you try and try to paint me as some far right pub or conservative.....but what is truly hilarious about your pathetic effort, is that the "righties" you love to try and compare me to (bravo and dixie) often find me at odds with their stances and call me a liberal.

i must be doing something "right", if the far right is calling me a liberal, and the far left wackos like you, are calling me far right.
 
the difference between you and me onceler, is i don't hang my hat on whether i say something right or left. i post my beliefs and opinions. regardless of party. though, my beliefs tend to lean toward the pub or conservative side of the proverbial aisle. you try and try to paint me as some far right pub or conservative.....but what is truly hilarious about your pathetic effort, is that the "righties" you love to try and compare me to (bravo and dixie) often find me at odds with their stances and call me a liberal.

i must be doing something "right", if the far right is calling me a liberal, and the far left wackos like you, are calling me far right.

Dixie said you went liberal for pointing out a bravo lie, which was clearly a lie - not for any real position. That's because Dix is a total lockstepper.

I'm against Libya; from what I can tell, so are you, apparently, but you defend Iraq to the end - even saying Bush "exhausted all options," which is truly jaw-dropping; it's the refuge of the extreme Bush apologist.

I've seen you take more indie positions on issues that aren't really related to Bush, but there is definitely something about that guy w/ you....
 
The Women

I don't get the relevance of that last poster about the women...

It was these women who persuaded Obama to take military action against Libya, Gates and the military did not want to get involved in this civil war! Clinton and Rice made the case of another Rwanda genocide, when then President Clinton did nothing to stop the genocide of 1,000,000 Rwandans! It's a guilt trip thing?!
 
I tried and tried to convince pinheads that Obama was not going to be much different than Bush on foreign policy matters. Onzies and Jarhead laughed and laughed at me.... it's been a while since one of them chortled off something about "Bush III, huh?" You see, our interests internationally, have more to do with our relationships with other countries than some knee-jerk liberal emote. It's all great and wonderful to yammer about how you don't plan to be the world police, and you don't intend to get us involved in the fights of others... until you have to actually govern as president.
 
I tried and tried to convince pinheads that Obama was not going to be much different than Bush on foreign policy matters. Onzies and Jarhead laughed and laughed at me.... it's been a while since one of them chortled off something about "Bush III, huh?" You see, our interests internationally, have more to do with our relationships with other countries than some knee-jerk liberal emote. It's all great and wonderful to yammer about how you don't plan to be the world police, and you don't intend to get us involved in the fights of others... until you have to actually govern as president.

I haven't seen Obama lie yet on foreign policy. Bush did lie, though.

So, they're not really alike when it comes to foreign policy...
 
I haven't seen Obama lie yet on foreign policy. Bush did lie, though.

So, they're not really alike when it comes to foreign policy...

Too bad you can't prove Bush lied, after three days of being given ample opportunity to post some evidence, and failing to do so.

and I guess we don't really count what Obama SAID when he was running for president... those aren't lies because he hadn't gotten elected yet, right?
 
Dixie, Bush lied. Our government lies. Stop being so naive. Obama will sell the same lies-- he already has. The lies were given to them. They just deliver the lnes
 
Too bad you can't prove Bush lied, after three days of being given ample opportunity to post some evidence, and failing to do so.

and I guess we don't really count what Obama SAID when he was running for president... those aren't lies because he hadn't gotten elected yet, right?

I proved Bush lied, multiple times. I listed about 8-10 different sources. It doesn't really matter how many sources & quotes you see, though- you have Bush blinders on. You marginalize everything - everyone has an agenda, and a reason to lie. So, even though they're all telling the same basic story, they're all lying, and only Bush is telling the truth.

All you really see are jeans...
 
It was these women who persuaded Obama to take military action against Libya, Gates and the military did not want to get involved in this civil war! Clinton and Rice made the case of another Rwanda genocide, when then President Clinton did nothing to stop the genocide of 1,000,000 Rwandans! It's a guilt trip thing?!

Interesting, I've heard the same thing said about Wolfowitz and Bremer regarding their failure to convince Bush Sr. to occupy Iraq, which led to the bloody suppression against all rebellion and the massacres of the Kurds.
 
I proved Bush lied, multiple times. I listed about 8-10 different sources. It doesn't really matter how many sources & quotes you see, though- you have Bush blinders on. You marginalize everything - everyone has an agenda, and a reason to lie. So, even though they're all telling the same basic story, they're all lying, and only Bush is telling the truth.

All you really see are jeans...

Uhm, no you didn't prove anything except that you can't read, apparently. You cited several people who made accusations and charges, but all of these allegations were investigated thoroughly by Congress and they found nothing to substantiate them. I have asked you repeatedly, as well as bravo and yurt, to provide us with some document or finding which concluded Bush lied, or Cheney, or anyone in the Bush administration. As of yet, you haven't produced anything, and you can't, because nothing exists.
 
Too bad you can't prove Bush lied, after three days of being given ample opportunity to post some evidence, and failing to do so.

and I guess we don't really count what Obama SAID when he was running for president... those aren't lies because he hadn't gotten elected yet, right?

You've had ample evidence from many former members of his admin but all you ever do is say that they had a book coming out. Why don't you read this and then tell me that Bush and Co. didn't lie, obfuscate, dissemble or were mendacious about Iraq.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/03/17/can-the-bush-lied-deniers-handle-the-truth/
 
Last edited:
Back
Top